Thank you, Minister. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. A comment, I guess, to the Minister of ITI is that I think it's important that, when she does come to Hay River, she meets, you know, one-on-one with the businesses. We don't need bureaucracy there, except for me. That's what I would ask, so that there is a frank discussion and you hear what they are saying. Because you have to hear both sides, at the end of the day, and that's all I ask. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Minister has committed, absolutely, that she would listen to the businesspeople, and she is fine without the MLA there. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. I do have two more Members, but I am going to call a short recess right now, as supper is here; then we will resume.
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I will call the committee back to order. We were on page 19, "Increase economic diversification by supporting growth in non-extractive sectors and setting regional diversification targets." To the Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My question has to do with the first point. Madam Chair, I've become very cynical about plans and government; they tend to be very drawn-out affairs that delay action, and I fear that that's the case with these regional economic development plans. What I hear from my small community colleagues on this side of the House is that the situation with jobs and economic development in the communities is urgent, and so the idea of leaving these plans to be completed by the summer of 2023 doesn't respond to that urgency, in my mind. The plans need to be started as soon as possible. It says spring 2020 here. That's a good time to begin, but is there any way they could be completed within a year? Really, to have any effect, they need to be done as quickly as possible. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I would like to be able to say that we'll get them done in a year; however, I can't. This is work that we're doing with the Indigenous and the community governments, so it is on their timeline, and so, to be respectful for those governments, we have to work when they are. I would like to say that some of the Indigenous governments already have economic plans; they're on board. Just because it says spring 2020 and ending in 2023, it doesn't mean that we're not on it already. We're already talking about it and, as soon as we can get them completed, that is my priority, as well, to get them done so that we can get moving.
The whole goal of this is because I've heard for the last four years, Madam Chair, that people have said, "You only talk about your capital city and your regional centres, and you need to talk about the small communities." By doing these regional economic plans, it actually will address every single community region in the Northwest Territories, and that's what I'm hoping to accomplish. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Madam Chair, and my thanks to the Premier for that response. Perhaps the Minister could provide the accountability and oversight committee a more detailed answer of some plans that are already under way and some that have still to be started. I feel that Indigenous organizations would want these plans to be done as quickly as possible, as well, so I want to make sure that, on the territorial side, we're fully resourced to get these plans done as soon as possible. My concern about 2023 is that we'll have no budgets left by then, so whatever these plans say, we won't have any time left to implement them, and there will be no onus on the 20th Assembly to take them up. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I will commit to actually offering the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight a thorough briefing on this. I will send a letter to them. Again, the reality is that we have to work. Some Indigenous governments, for example, are already barrelling ahead with their economic development and what they're doing. Other ones are at an area where they haven't even thought about it. Again, some will be easier, and some will need a lot more support. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the Premier for that answer. I recognize that this is a classic case of one size doesn't fit all. Some Indigenous government organizations are already very engaged in this. They have economic development arms. They have their own strategic plans. If those can be grafted onto the government's or the multi-stakeholder regional development plans, then, obviously, that makes a lot of sense. I look forward to hearing more detail on this issue, and those are all my questions. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Madam Premier.
I'll take it as a comment. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Moving to Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just looking at the question, I'll make some comments about economic diversification. This section here says what we will do. It says we will work with Indigenous and community governments to identify and advance economic opportunities.
One of the things that I ask myself is, our local and our Indigenous businesses, they don't have the capacity to move ahead. There are a lot of barriers, like right now in terms of business. What I mean by that is there are barriers in terms of BIP and the P3 strategy. I did some research on this. There are jurisdictions, i.e., the U.S., they have their own programs to help out minority people with their business. I guess I have a question for Minister of ITI. What is her department going to do to help build the business capacity with Indigenous and local businesses?
Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I will pass it to the Minister of ITI. Thank you.
Minister of ITI.
Yes. We would be looking to continue on with our SEED and business planning funding and continue to build out those supports to small businesses. I guess I would say that this is already work that ITI does, so as we go forward and we have discussions with intergovernmental meetings, like bilaterals and such, this is a conversation I am having on sort of a case-by-case or region-by-region basis with each government. What I'm doing is, I've been listening to them, and trying to get their inputs and feedbacks on what they're not feeling is working with the department.
What I'm really starting to understand, in general, is there is a real lack of communication at times going on and a lack of response. I had somebody comment to me, "I notice that you said thank you for the e-mail, and you'd get back to somebody," and I was like, "Well, why wouldn't you do that?" I'm hearing my departments are not doing that so much. One thing I can do is I can promise to increase better communications, but I am trying to solicit that end user feedback from Indigenous businesses and start-ups that maybe have had issues with the department. If that's the case and you know of people like that, I would be more than willing to talk with them. We are just going to continue along with our SEED development.
We've talked more about how we can provide business training for businesses, but I've heard the feedback of stop bringing Southerners up to tell northern businesses how to do business in the North. That's another one where we're not going to be looking to bring up Joe Blow from Toronto who is going to give advice to someone selling cookies in Inuvik on their business. This isn't realistic and to me, it's a waste of money. All I can do is commit that we're going to be looking at those programs and using them better and more efficiently. If there's issues, please let me know.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for the response from the Minister. My concern is, and somebody has already echoed today, that my money is leaving the North. I just feel right now, I'm hoping within the life of this Assembly that we will see changes for our local and our northern and our Indigenous businesses, and have something real to show for it because right now, it's not working out that way, and I'm hoping we go in that direction. That's just a comment, not a question.
Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. I will move on to Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I'm looking at the second item on this page. Increase tourism in the NWT with a focus basically outside of Yellowknife. That's fine, but there are actually tourism needs in Yellowknife, and I would like to hear from the Premier how this government is going to support tourism in Yellowknife and around Yellowknife? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. If I remember right, I think it was over 120,000 tourists came through Yellowknife in the last year. Correct, 120,000. I think it was around that. It was 110, I think, the year before that, so we're steadily increasing. Yellowknife doesn't need to have an influx in tourists. What we need in Yellowknife, and my personal opinion, is we need activities for tourists to take part in. That's the issue in Yellowknife. The smaller communities, like we've heard over and over, have no economy. Tourism is a viable economy to the smaller communities. Even though we've said that we're focusing on small communities, it doesn't mean we're neglecting Yellowknife. Yellowknife is happening. It's already there. It's pre-sustained. It's a matter of trying to get some of those tourism dollars into a small community so that they can make tourism a viable, economic diversification as well. It's not that we forget Yellowknife. We have to work with the private market in Yellowknife as well. Some of our things, there's all kinds of opportunities, but people need to take advantage of it. What we do need to focus on is getting the tourists into the smaller communities, and that's what I'd like to focus on in these four years, without forgetting Yellowknife as well. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I am glad to hear that Yellowknife is not going to be completely ignored, because it is the gateway, even to get people into the smaller communities. As part of the packaging, the Premier talked about, take people for a trip out to Thaidene Nene. If it can be a winter location there, it would be a great little trip outside of Yellowknife.
We do have needs here. We don't have a proper visitors' centre. I had to drag the last ITI Minister through the basement of City Hall to see what's left here. That's not a proper visitor service centre for a capital city that can serve as a gateway to other places. That needs to be addressed. There's the issue around tourism regulation that's been in the news recently here about people not getting very good work experiences, and not getting paid and so on. That needs to be addressed in a more systematic fashion and to help promote places outside of Yellowknife. Presumably, these things are going to be addressed as well? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Once we have done this mandate, and we've tabled the mandate, the next process is to actually come up with a budget to address some of these mandate things. Again, recognizing there's 22 priorities, we're not going to have a lot of money. We're not going to get everything done properly. We can either spread it out really thin or focus. I'm not sure where we're going to go with that yet. It's a debate that Cabinet will be having. Yellowknife's not going to get forgotten.
The Minister of ITI just brought up that they do get $161,000 every year towards the visitor's information centre. They can use that as they wish. I can't promise there will be new money for the new centre in Yellowknife at this point because, like I said, we don't have a lot of money, and we have a huge amount of priorities, and you pick one. Universal childcare, the municipal funding gap; one of those alone has just taken out a whole mandate budget. We're in a position where we're struggling to get it done. What I can say, though, Madam Chair, is that businesses in Yellowknife need to also take a piece in this. When I was campaigning, I went to business -- I can't even remember. The Chamber of Commerce did a panel, and they were saying, "Where is our economy," et cetera, and I said, I think it was 100,000 people at that time, "A hundred thousand people come through Yellowknife. If every business built a little trinket, and they could sell one little trinket for $1 to every tourist, that's $100,000 in your business." The reality is that tourists don't come with just $1 in their pocket. Tourists come with thousands of dollars in their pocket, and they are walking around our streets of Yellowknife looking for things to do.
To anyone who is hearing, this is something we have to keep saying to the public and to the private enterprises, is that there is money there. Start taking advantage of it, looking for things to do, because there is a need, there is a niche, and we have a huge opportunity we're not taking enough advantage of. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I don't want to prolong this, but I guess I had hoped to see something about developing partnerships even within Yellowknife as part of the mandate. The city has the opportunity to develop a hotel levee; they haven't taken that up. I recognize that, but there could be work with Indigenous governments here in Yellowknife. There is federal money available for cultural centres, as well. I think you can be creative. If ITI can find ways to help with these kinds of partnerships, that would be great, but we do need proper visitor services in Yellowknife to make sure that people can get out to other places, as well, even if it's part of a strategy of increasing tourism outside Yellowknife.
The last thing, I guess, I'm going to say is that I went to Iceland in 2015. It's a country of 300,000 people. They get 3 million tourists a year. Everywhere you go, there's a package, and in many places, more than one that you can do. I agree with the Premier; that's what we need to develop here, is options and packages for people to do when they get here, so that there are things for them to do and they're not necessarily tied to one operator when they get here, either.
I think there are lots of opportunities to help the tourism in Yellowknife, and I'd like to make sure that the department is going to be pursuing some of those, in partnership with Indigenous governments locally and the city of Yellowknife. Thanks, Madam Chair. That's all I have.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, my direction would be for the Minister of ITI, and all Ministers, to work with all applicable stakeholders. That would include in our capital city; it would include the City of Yellowknife and our Indigenous governments that are located within our capital, or a proximity within our capital. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. I'm going to move to the Member for Nunakput.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just in regard to increased tourism across the Northwest Territories, we have a really good one in Sachs Harbour, tourism. We have a good one in Paulatuk. In my home community of Tuktoyaktuk, I guess we've been left hanging because, right across this whole territory, there are parks and RV parks that are paid by the territorial government, and we asked for that same service in Tuktoyaktuk and they wouldn't do it. Now what happens is we are finally getting a trailer, but in the last three years, we've been using a shack with a woodstove and hiring our own staff through the hamlet's O and M fund to manage, like, to run our visitors' facility, what we have in Tuktoyaktuk. We hire about four youth, and we do agreements with the territorial government, but nothing's ever done. There is nothing permanent there. There are no hotels; there's nothing. As a community, people drive in, drive out; drive in, drive out. Last year, we were the top five in Canada to come on a North American visitors list.
The thing is, again, I'd like to see some of that $160,000 that Yellowknife gets for what they're getting; we get, I think, $15,000 or $20,000, $25,000, and that doesn't cover all the costs, the costs that are being downloaded to the community. Where does it show, right now, with the O and M? Why can't we have an RV park in Tuktoyaktuk? We have one in between Fort Liard and here, in the middle of nowhere. They're paying for that. Why can't we have one in Tuktoyaktuk, where it's sea to sea to sea? There's no support for us; no support. I get tired of that cliche, government downloading, but they don't help, and Tuktoyaktuk always has to fend for itself. For us, put in a position to make a difference for the people who we represent, it has to work together. The government has to step up to the plate, even minor, to open up that RV park, so that people can stay in Tuktoyaktuk.
For myself, enough is enough. The hamlet of Tuktoyaktuk shouldn't take this out of their O and M. None of our small communities should take it out of their O and M to operate tourism. It should be a territorial policy, going forward, to work together. Everybody wants to work together now. I want to hold them accountable to this one now, because this summer, when the road opens up and we have 6,000 or 7,000 tourists coming to my home community, and you're like a fishbowl, there's nothing for them to do, ITI has to step up to the plate with projects, like boat tours. One of my friends owns dog mushing and stuff like that. He's doing a really good job promoting our community, but, at the end of the day, the government has to step up to the plate. It doesn't have to be much. It's not $2 or $3 million, you know; it's maybe $50,000 here, just to get the RV park set up, and a visitors' facility. The guy who is building it is out of Inuvik. When I was sitting on the council, even they told us, "We're going to give you one until you get your own, then we're going to take that one back." It's a trailer that's probably worth $100,000.
The support has to be for all communities in my riding. I'm going be going around on a tour, and I'm going to take my Industry, Tourism and Investment Minister and she's going to hear it in regard to we need help, and for the Premier to really hear it. I know you're hearing for 33 communities. It's the ones I represent where we need help in that area. That's just a comment, Madam Chair, so thank you.
Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Did the Premier want to comment? All right, so we will move on. Are there any further questions on "Increase economic diversification?" Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. In terms of increasing tourism in the NWT, with a focus on increasing tourism outside Yellowknife, one of the items under "How We Will Demonstrate Progress" refers to the number of tourism operator licences outside Yellowknife. Just as a comment, one of the concerns I've heard from my riding of Kam Lake is southern operators coming north and operating tourism businesses within our city, and then turning around and taking that money south again. How does this government intend to make sure that our tourism operators are northern operators and that we are supporting Northerners, but also making sure that, when tourists come to the North, that safety is paramount? Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm just trying to remember back; I'm getting old, so things blend. Back in the day, before we had tourists in Yellowknife, we never had tourism operators. People would just come up here. I mean, we didn't even have paved streets, back in the day. We slowly got more and more advanced, and then tourists started coming. We weren't ready for it, and then the tourism operators started, but it's free enterprise, Madam Chair, and so it's important that we get the word out to northern businesses that there are opportunities here.
That is a job that we can take on, bringing awareness, but we can't dictate who is going to be in the private industry here in the Northwest Territories. My gut is telling me, though, in the smaller communities, you're going to have fewer people from the South who would be wanting to come up and take that investment into a smaller community than they would in the capital, so our goal is to work with our Indigenous governments, our municipal governments, our communities, residents, to actually promote the services.
We're not going to go south and promote our tourism services for operators to come up here. If they come up because there is a business opportunity, there is a right to mobility, but we would not be promoting for anyone from the South to come in and take our tourism market. That is not what we'll be doing. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My next question is in regard to advancing the knowledge economy. Under "How We Will Do It," it says that we will work with a broad range of partners. Would the Premier be willing to expand on the definition of "broad range of partners" for that one? Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Madam Premier.
Yes. "Knowledge economy" depends on how you define that. That is a hard word in itself to define. Of course, we need to work with our Indigenous governments for traditional knowledge. I think that is important to start with. We also have to work with researchers that we have in the Northwest Territories, all of the partners that we have coming up to the Northwest Territories. The City of Yellowknife did a study, and I think it was either $50 million or $80 million they were pursuing. It was coming through the North every year, annually, for research grants. We are not even getting a fraction of that.
To promote our knowledge economy and working in partnerships, it means Indigenous partners, it means universities from around the continent, it might mean other Indigenous people from the Arctic circumpolar. It's a whole variety. When you talk climate change, it would be foolish of us not to look internationally and circumpolar to see what the effects are. It's really hard to say what they are. It depends on what aspect we are looking at, but we are open to as many avenues of providing us knowledge on the knowledge economy as possible. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My last point is more, I guess, a comment, just in regard to the point that the Member for Yellowknife North brought up in regard to the red tape report card from the Canadian Federation of Independent Businesses. I get concerned when we talk about establishing a working group as far as how we measure that and where that information that the working group generates, where it goes, what happens with it if there are no teeth behind it, and so I would really encourage Cabinet to find a way of holding themselves accountable to the information the working group does gather so that we make sure that we actually are reducing red tape and we actually are removing regulatory burdens on small businesses. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Madam Premier.
