Thank you, Madam Chair. I think the intent really in that mandate item is in part recognition that we do not have the program structured in the most efficient way to benefit those most in need, and part of that is signaling that we need to work with our partners to have that better focused, to make sure that we get better results, including having programs that might be means tested, as an example, so it's not just folks like me who can take advantage, who have taken advantage, of some of these programs and can most afford to, but perhaps better utilize those programs to reach more people. That is the intention. The details still need to be worked out, so there is a lot of further discussion and engagement that is expected with our partners. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Goldney. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. In the first point in this table, "Reduced reliance on diesel," there are three items that use the term "advance," and both have timelines of fall 2020. I am wondering if the Premier could please provide some indication of how Members on this side of the House can hold her accountable to advancing something in 2020, and kind of what expectations she has for her Cabinet to meet these advance stipulations? Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. If the Members would like, we can offer a briefing to the standing committee to identify where we are with each of these projects, and the timeline that we see for them, if that would work for the Members. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. No further questions.
Thank you. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.
Thank you, Madam Chair. When I am looking at this priority, I know it was one of the ones that I kind of was pushing for: reducing the cost of power, increasing the use of alternative energy and renewable energy, and working with our partnerships. From what I'm looking at, you've got advancing projects, and we've got the one project in my community that says, "complete wind power and energy storage project." With this past government and this government, this project has been stagnant. I know it's out of government's hands is what we're saying, but my question to the Premier is: is the government in the business of actually working in partnership and moving forward with energy, alternative renewable energy?
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm just a bit confused with where this is going. The government is in the business of trying to get communities off of diesel, in partnership with the federal government, and in partnership with any governments or any individuals that want to take part in that, so we have been actively seeking partnerships all along. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Go ahead, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.
Just looking at this, and we are talking about getting our communities off diesel, working with federal partners with funding, because we know that there's a lot of funding that is for green energy. There are different things, like the wind project, being completed, and then we talk about other initiatives. There is the Department of Infrastructure, there are different areas that have the energy, and then we're working with different groups and Aboriginal groups.
In my community, we've got a lot of the solar farms going up that are net metring. We've got biomass. In our community, we're losing some of that money because of the red tape, or there's no movement within the partnerships with government. I am worried that we may lose more federal dollars instead of moving forward on projects. When I am looking at this priority, are we going to go to really look down into this priority and say, if we have governments that are going out, Indigenous governments and other businesses that are going out and getting federal dollars approved, how are we working together with them to ensure that we are not losing these dollars? They would benefit after the government, especially looking at our climate change targets and things like that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The goal is to get communities off of diesel. The goal is not to keep it within our government or to have all of the power. The previous government, and I was a Member of that Cabinet, had taken the philosophy that, whenever government money comes from the federal government, give it to us, and we shall dissimilate it to the communities. I've been an advocate since I began. My first meetings with all federal Ministers, with our Prime Minister, is that this government will not do that. This government will work hand-in-hand with Indigenous governments. If Indigenous governments want to take on housing projects, if they want to take on alternative energy products, if they want to take on whatever aspects they want, I will stand beside them and support them.
In saying that, though, I've also told Indigenous governments that I will not set them up to fail. If they are looking at taking on something, for example, housing, I've told them that you might want to consider starting with market housing for home ownership. I would not recommend they take on public housing at this time, because for every public housing unit is approximately $23,500 per year. I am trying to support Indigenous governments and community governments as much as I can, but being honest with that, so that they are not set up to fail. We will be stronger if we stand together than we are if we separate. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Is there anything further on page 21, "Reduce the cost of power"? Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Just a couple of points. What I see here is basically a cut and paste from the energy strategy of things that the previous Assembly had already signed onto. A lot of these projects, at least in the first one, are going to happen in the first couple of years. I am not sure that this is really going to advance us. What we need is an overall plan to get our communities off diesel, and I don't see that here. Is that something that is going to be developed? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. At this point, no, we're not contemplating doing a plan to get every community off of diesel. In the short term that, probably, is not feasible. Even if we bring in alternative energy, there is only a certain capacity that solar panels can provide, that wind turbines can provide. If there's no wind, you don't get energy. If there's no sun, you don't get the energy. I don't see that as being a short term; I see for the long term that we will still have diesel being utilized in communities. Even in our hydro communities, in Yellowknife, which is our biggest hydro community, we still have diesel as a backup. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I disagree with the Premier on this. I think we should have a plan. That is something that can be costed and taken to Ottawa for money, and that is something that Ottawa would be interested in seeing. I'm interested in seeing it as well.
I want to just speak briefly about one of these projects, the Whati transmission line. I raised this in the last Assembly. I've already had one e-mail exchange with the Minister of Infrastructure. I think this is not a sound project. For the money that that's going to cost, we could get mini hydro in three of the Tlicho communities. I just don't think that that's a good investment of money, and we're going to have that debate and discussion, I'm sure, in the next capital budget as well.
I just want to raise one more thing, Madam Chair, and that's this section here is really devoid of any mention or discussion of what role the Northwest Territories Power Corporation is going to play in reducing the cost of power and increasing use of alternative and renewable energy. We do have Arctic Energy Alliance mentioned there. We do have NTPC, but there's nothing about governance in here. We had a long discussion earlier today about governance. What I see the core problem with NTPC is that they are married to this idea of big grids, big infrastructure, and that they have to maintain a rate base to fund that. The rest of the world is moving in a different direction. Smaller grids, energy self-sufficiency, and that's the kind of approach that NTPC needs to start to adopt. Get on board, folks, and find a way so that we can have net metering. Improve net metering options, and build energy self-sufficiency. That's not what the energy strategy does. In fact, it reinforces the position of NTPC, and I don't think that is the kind of direction that we can and should be going.
I would like to hear from the Premier. What is her vision of the future for NTPC and delivering energy at a lower cost in alternative and renewable energy? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't see NCPC actually being able to lower the cost of power. We still need the infrastructure. If we had solar panels and wind turbines and everything, even in our capital city, we would still need the infrastructure there to support the units. That has been proven over and over. I am not sure how many times we can say that as a Cabinet. We have been saying that for quite a while. I do want to say that the road to the Whati transition line is being used.
Yes, we could look at just doing small hydro projects, but the priority is also about, on the very next page, increased resource exploration, as well. This is our major economy in the Northwest Territories. If we do the small hydro things, they may address a community. Will they be able to expand into supporting a large industry, whether it is mineral resources, whether it is a manufacturing company? Our capacity in Yellowknife, my understanding is it is at capacity. If we don't bring in more hydro, we will not be able to expand our big industries. This serves two things. We can either think small-scale and just do little, micro projects for little communities, or we can think bigger scale and support the communities and also support the industry that we all desperately need so we have employment for people. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Are there any further questions on page 21? Mr. Simpson.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to touch on one line item here. That is the "Advance the Hay River to Fort Providence transmission line." In Hay River, we have Northland Utilities, same as Fort Providence, but we get our power from NTPC, from Taltson. The other issue we have is the franchise agreement, which has been going on for I am not sure how many years now, three or four, maybe five. I am not sure how much money is being spent on that. If we would have saved that money or given it as rebates, we would probably be better off. Sometimes competition is good.
I heard the Premier say that she is willing to have a briefing. I would like to have a briefing from the Power Corporation so we can ask them questions and get an idea of where they are going or their ideas of where they are headed, because they have got some pretty high-priced help as board of directors, so I am sure they have a good plan. I would like to hear that. If she can commit to that, I would be pleased to be in on that briefing. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, the Minister for the Power Corporation is willing to provide a briefing to standing committee. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Are there any further questions on page 21, "Reduce the cost of power and increase the use of alternative and renewable energy"? Mr. Norn.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I move to report progress of Committee of the Whole.
Thank you, Mr. Norn. There is a motion on the floor to report progress. The motion is in order and non-debatable. All those in favour? Motion is carried.
---Carried
I will now rise and report progress.
Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 12-19(2) and would like to report progress. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Mahsi.
The motion is in order. Do we have a seconder? Member for Nunakput. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.
---Carried
Orders of the day for Wednesday, February 26, 2020, at 1:30 p.m.:
Prayer
Ministers’ Statements
Members’ Statements
Returns to Oral Questions
Recognition of Visitors in the Gallery
Replies to the Budget Address (Day 2 of 7)
Acknowledgements
Oral Questions
Written Questions
Returns to Written Questions
Replies to Commissioner's Address
Petitions
Reports of Committees on the Review of Bills
Reports of Standing and Special Committees
Tabling of Documents
Notices of Motion
Motions
Notices of Motion for First Reading of Bills
First Reading of Bills
Second Reading of Bills
Consideration in Committee of the Whole of Bills and Other Matters
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Tabled Document 12-19(2), 2019-2023 Mandate of the Government of the Northwest Territories
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Tabled Document 17-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 2019-2020
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Tabled Document 30-19(2), Main Estimates 2020-2021
Report of Committee of the Whole
Third Reading of Bills
Orders of the Day
Thank you, Mr. Clerk. This House stands adjourned until Wednesday, February 26, 2020, at 1:30 p.m.
---ADJOURNMENT
The House adjourned at 8:00 p.m.
