Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister of Health.
I was looking at my notes. The locations have not been determined yet, but it is something that we would have to do a needs assessment. Although it is in our timeline and in our mandate to be able to look at, "Okay. Where is it best suited for individuals?" and again, working with my colleagues in housing, because this is infrastructure, transitional housing, so I understand that we recognize it as a priority. We just need to do further work in finding out where are the best locations, who is the target group, so that is work that we need to do, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you for that. My next question is: it is actually the very last line on the page, "Reduce wait times for access to treatment centres." Sorry, to treatment, we'll just call it "treatment" right across the board. It is my understanding that we are going back out for RFP later this year for our treatment facilities. I am just wondering why reducing the wait times has a timeline of the very end of our term, if that is something that we have the ability to have an effect on this?
Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The title "What will we do" is "Strengthen community counselling services." Waitlists are regarding that. You can't reduce the wait times for access unless we have other options to do it. This is one that we do have statistics, so we do have a percentage that we want to lower it by, hopefully. We can't lower that until we have stronger peer support groups, until we have managed alcohol groups, all those things that are being implemented before will help us with the wait times. That is why it is at the end. It is because we need all of the other programs and support to support people from actually relapsing or people getting into hard uses of alcohol and drugs. All of those things have to be in place first. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My last question today, or not today, for this page has to do with actually under the first one. During election month, we heard a lot of talk about on-the-land addictions recovery and mental health, wellness options. We also heard yourself, am I allowed to say the Chair, talk about the experience you had at the Arctic Wellness Foundation out by the multiplex in a Member's Statement very recently. I am a little worried that on-the-land, to me it looks slightly less large than I would like to see it. I am just wondering if you are comfortable speaking about where Cabinet would like to go with on-the-land options for people both in Yellowknife, but then also, more importantly, in our communities? Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The difficulty when you are dealing with alcohol and drug use is: the GNWT alone can't solve this issue. We need a community as a whole to be able to address this. We do support things like in Yellowknife, in our capital, the wellness camp behind the arena there, those are good things, but we also, in the smaller communities, we need to engage. Our whole Cabinet is on that. We need to engage with Indigenous governments, and they have their own traditional methods of healing people. It is very disrespectful for us not to take that into consideration. We haven't defined what they would look like more so. We have defined that we need to work with Indigenous governments. It is appropriate. They know their people. They know their communities. They will tell us what they need. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Madam Chair. In the last Assembly, the social development committee spent quite a bit of time on the issue of aftercare for people returning from treatment in the south. One of the things that we grappled with, and I don't see here but is an important part, is how to measure success. There are people, as you know, go and start treatment and don't complete it. There are people who go and complete treatment and stay sober for the rest of their lives, and there is everything in between. Do you have some thoughts about how to evaluate the results of improving the services for aftercare for people who have addictions treatment? Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Again, measuring success is really an objective kind of philosophy. For a young child, perhaps coming from a family of parents who drink frequently, success was one day sober. For other people, it might be longer. What we have done, the number of individuals requiring a return to treatment is reduced, and the length of time between treatment is increased are the ways that we will measure. I do want to qualify that success may not mean that less people, more time before rehab treatment. Again, those things might not be the success. I think it is an individual family measurement of success. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you. I think that is an interesting philosophical discussion about what success is in this case. One possibility is: who goes to treatment, and have they been before? I think there are some more nuanced questions that are available which may have to be learned through interviewing people. That is, they consent to being interviewed, and they talk about what kind of triggers led them to relapse or what kind of services were very helpful and so on. I think this is an area that could really use a special focus on evaluation and monitoring so that we are clear that for all the services that we now provide and want to provide in the future, that they are providing the best amount of help possible for those individuals. My next question has to do with the nine transitional housing units. I am not clear where nine comes from. Why nine and not 99? Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The nine comes from just trying to be reasonable about what we feel that we can accomplish in the life of this Assembly. When we first put out distance learning, which wasn't during my term but I did take part in it, they were wise in that they said they would do five a year. That way, they were able to keep that commitment. This year, you will see that there will be 20. If we would have said 99, we wouldn't have made it. Start with nine. Each year, we'll try to improve. If we break this, this is not our bible. This does not mean that we only do nine, and in two years, that we won't look at more. This is our minimum. Hopefully, minimum. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I can see potential, for example, to having, let's say, the sale of Arnica goes through to the Yellowknife Women's Society of having a number of spaces available there to people returning from treatment. That would be a start on stabilizing people who are returning from treatment. What we hear and what you know from your own work life is that, when people return from treatment and they go back to couch surfing, that they are more likely than not to relapse because they don't really have the positive reinforcement for the changes they are trying to make. My last question in this area has to do with the alcohol strategy. How does that fit within this mandate area? Is it something that will pull these different pieces together, or is it something that is separate? Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Two things: one, like I said earlier, we can't do this alone, so we are open to partnerships. If something like the Arnica Inn came and they were offering something or an Indigenous government, we would be open to partner with that, so we might do it. The other thing to manage alcohol is kind of on its own. It kind of combines, and yet it is on its own. I am going to try to be politically correct because I respect the people that I spent 20 years working with, is that there are people, Madam Chair, that the level of addiction and the damage that has happened is so astute, that to ask them to go from using constantly from their wake up until they go to bed, to actually go to rehab, you are looking at medical problems, then. What's DT's called? The withdrawal from it is going to be huge. Managed alcohol has been utilized in many different jurisdictions. It is being shown to work.
I think in the last Assembly, I was fortunate to go with the Minister of Health. We went down to a program, I believe it was in Toronto. It could have been a different city. They took us there. People that were chronic users were finding success with that. They had to start. They started with the managed alcohol, and then because it was monitored, they eventually got to a place where they could use less. It is part of the answer. It is not the whole answer. You can't put one treatment for every person. We have to stop doing that. That is what people have done all through centuries. Best practice says you don't make people fit models; you make models fit people. Use what works for all the people that you see. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you. I have also done some reading on managed alcohol programming. I think that it benefits the individuals, and it also benefits the community. There is a lot of criminality that goes with feeding addictions that would be addressed by a managed alcohol program. My last comment in that area is that I realized from the amount of time that I have spent with the people who are with chronic addictions is that not everyone wants to be sober. There are people who are perfectly content to not be sober for the rest of their lives. Obviously, all of this needs to be driven by individuals who want change, and we help them to obtain that change. I think we also have to recognize that we have people who have alcoholism as a chronic health issue, not as a moral failing, but as a health issue. We need to take care of them until the end of their lives, and managed alcohol may be one dimension of that. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Madam Premier.
Absolutely. I couldn't say it better than the Member said it herself. The managed alcohol program isn't only about getting people off of addictions. It is about harm reduction. The amount of people I have seen in my career that have done horrible things that I won't speak about in this House to actually be able to get a $5 bottle of beer are horrible stories that I have heard. These people will actually benefit from this program. They may, but they don't have to resort to those methods to feed their addiction. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Nothing further. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Mahsi cho, Madam Chair. This one here is very near and dear to me, addiction issues and aftercare. It was a big part of my platform, and I spoke to a lot of people about this. For me, I mentioned before when we did our roundtable, I have been sober for a long time now. I struggled with alcohol for many years, and I am glad to say now, it is been over seven years. You try to lead by example, and that is what I am doing, but there has to be more than that. You talk to a lot of people who are in pain right now. They are suffering, and you just feel powerless when you go through your campaign. Now we are here. We can do something about this. I am glad we actually put this in.
Again, this is a good item to have on our mandate, but the hows are always the tough parts, how to get there. One of the things that I have looked at was it shouldn't be just the GNWT imposing their will; like, "Here. We are going to have this great, big, bright palace. You are going to go to this and get healed." For me, we should always engage with the communities. I think it is one of those items where the GNWT will fund our communities, our Indigenous governments. Our land is vast. Our cultures are so different between north and south, east and west, and we deal with our sick people differently. Our communities know our people the best, and we know how to best help them.
I look at on-the-land programs, so I guess my question is: would the Premier be willing to go that route, just to fund our communities directly and let them handle their on-the-land programs? Would that be something that the Premier would be interested in looking at? Mahsi cho, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Absolutely. I am glad that the Member recognizes no one model fits all; it is what I have said forever. It is a core to my heart. I believe that we do need community. I have said that. We can't do this alone. We need to be open to working with Indigenous governments; that is why it is in this mandate. What we think in Yellowknife is the answer may not be the answer in Tuktoyaktuk, so we have a responsibility as the GNWT to make sure that we engage with all Indigenous governments so that they define their healing, and then we support them in actualizing the programming. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Mahsi cho, Madam Chair, and thank you to Madam Premier for her response. I am just looking at the timelines, here; winter 2020 for a review to be completed. Has there been an active engagement with communities or Indigenous governments to reach this benchmark? Mahsi cho, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Right now, winter 2020 is for the national jurisdictional review. Engaging with Indigenous governments, I am not sure. I don't know if we have done that at this point. In fairness, Ministers have been busy developing the mandate, developing all the work we have to do, getting familiar with it, and being in session. If the Minister hasn't started this work, I have full faith that she will begin this work as soon as possible. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Another thing, too, is aftercare. It is really important to always follow up with any sort of treatment program and preventing relapse, and I think it is important that we closely track this to measure change, positive change. What measures is the Premier planning to go forward with to help measure this success? Mahsi cho.
Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Some of this, actually, we can obtain from our database; people who we send out for treatment supports, people who we provide drug and alcohol counselling. That will give us a baseline, and then the goal is to actually reduce that as people are sent out and stuff. We can get baselines. Some of the programs developed and hospitalizations for alcohol, we know how many people go to the hospital, so we can. We already have a baseline; we just need to pull those out. Then we can actually measure success by if our rates of hospitalization, our rates of return to treatment centres, et cetera, are lowered. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I have got one more question. I know that the Member for Thebacha, she is not here right now, but I know that she mentioned that Salt River and Poundmaker's had a program in place, and it met with some success, from what I have been told. With these partnerships with these treatment centres down south, would the Premier be willing to work with some of these treatment centres in the South and bring some of their programs and some of the people up North to try to work with them to get into the communities? Mahsi cho.
Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I think that question would probably be best answered by our Minister of Health and Social Services. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Minister of Health and Social Services.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I do want to talk about the facility-based addiction treatments we have in the South. We have four that we work with currently. It is the Poundmaker's Lodge, which is located in St. Albert. We also have the Fresh Start Recovery Centre, which is in Calgary. We also have the Aventa treatment centre for women, which also is in Calgary, and we have the Edgewood Treatment Centre, which is in Nanaimo. This is something, our continued partnership with the facilities in the South, and it is important to know that, as we look at the mandate, bringing services closer to home, if there is a model out there that our department can mirror to bring that closer to home, then definitely that is something our department will look into. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Anything further, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh? Thank you, Member. Next on my list is the Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am just looking at this priority. In "Strengthen community counselling services," I kind of look at it as more taking a position that we have a medical social worker in the hospital in Inuvik who deals with clients who are in the hospital. We have child welfare social workers, but we don't have case workers or outreach workers, in our community, at least, anyway, I don't know how it is in Yellowknife, for our vulnerable population, for our homeless, for our people with addictions, for our people who are having housing issues. If they were to go for treatment, coming back, we have mental health and addiction counsellors who send them off, and then they come back, but they are not really linked with housing and all those types of things.
I am just trying to figure out a way that, maybe with increasing some of this work, the social workers, to have an adult outreach social worker for our homeless population fit in here, or training a specific social worker to work with these populations, that is an outreach, so they don't have to go into this hospital. They are at the homeless shelter. They are at the wet shelter. They need somebody who can reach out to them. We know, as Indigenous people, we don't really go looking a lot of times, unless we are really sick and really need help. We just need someone there who can put their hand out and we can start to trust and work with. I ask if that somehow can be looked at, especially in our regional centres where the homeless population is higher. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. What the Member is talking about, I believe, kind of looks like our integrated service delivery program that we have offered. It is the model that we are moving toward. It is not going to happen overnight. There are financial limitations, professional ability, training, all those things. However, we are working closer within departments, and some things are already happening that weren't in here, because we didn't put everything in here and we also don't have things going.
Our child and youth mental health workers who are going into schools, I am ecstatic that that is happening. That is the start. I believe the Member spoke today about the issue of young people; if we can get them when they are younger and deal with their mental health wellness, and help them make better choices through our child and youth mental health workers, through our career Pathways workers within the schools who are going to help try to guide students starting in grade seven, that is the beginning, but we do have to work better towards integrated service delivery. The departments know, all these Ministers know, and all their deputy ministers know, we are expecting in this government that they will work better, not only amongst themselves, but with all stakeholders. That does mean, if you are going to work with all stakeholders, I hate to say it, but I am just going to say it to all government employees: you have to be willing to get out of your offices. Thank you, Madam Chair.
