Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Looking at establishing under here, and I know some other Members have talked about it, the medical detox and managed alcohol programs, I know from my past experience, when clients are wanting to go for treatment in the hospitals, we have always accepted them two to three days before they are going to go, because clinically, they need at least three days to medically withdraw. Some need more, though, if they are every-day, heavy-addiction users.
I am just wondering how, if we are going to be doing this, is it going to be in our hospitals? I do know that these clients can be heavy-load clients, and they would be more of what we call in the practice one-to-one because of their addictions and withdrawing sometimes. This will be a heavy burden on the budget in a hospital setting. I am just wondering if you could elaborate a little bit on how this might look or if it is going to be in the hospital. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Minister of Health and Social Services.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I do want to talk a little bit about what we are proposing to do around medical detox. The department is exploring some options for medical detox in the Northwest Territories. We are in the process of developing a terms of reference for some of the consultation and research. We will be consulting with residents and Indigenous organizations, as well as healthcare providers, and in addition to that, having a jurisdictional scan to see how detox is offered in other provinces or territories and research some of the best practices for the delivery of medical detox.
Once this has been determined, reviewing the results of our research, and then consult and identify options to move forward for the delivery of medical detox, whether it is through a centralized facility or by using our health centres or other creative options. I mean, that is the whole intent of doing a jurisdictional scan is to find best options and have a look at them and just really come up with an implementation plan. Those are some of the things that our department is doing in terms of the medical detox.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I hear the Minister talk about research, and I think one thing that people get tired of every time we sit down around the table, and from my past, sitting around watching this table, is we are going to do a research project; we are going to do a scan; we are going to do this. The money that it takes to do that we could just use to pay staff. We don't have a detox place. We are not going to have an ideal detox place in the Northwest Territories because we have regional centres where usually the clients end up, and the only place that has trained professionals is in the hospital.
Would we not just write a territorial policy on how we are going to do detox in our hospitals for clients? That way, doctors are knowing that they can do this, and they can write a prescription, or they can do an admission. Nurses know that they have a standard of practice on what they need to do while they are detoxing, and they can go off to treatment if needed, instead of always doing these scans and spending money on that. I just feel like it is better for our clients to spend that money on them than to do more research. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am in agreement in that I am more action-focused than research-focused, and that comes from the NGO, where you don't have the time and the money to actually do all the research focus, and you end up just dealing with it. However, when we are talking especially around the managed alcohol programming, we haven't had any experience in that in the Northwest Territories. It would be inappropriate of us to actually take that on and just say, "We are opening it up. We are going to start giving you three ounces a day. Then, in a month, we will give you two ounces, and in a month, we will give you three ounces." We need to look on that model and to find out how that works before we implement that model. The medical detox might be a little bit easier. We have had some experience. It might just be a policy change, but the managed alcohol programming, for sure, I would say that we need to do the research on that program. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.
I agree, because I know we don't have a managed alcohol. I don't know how that is going to work either in all my years, who is going to distribute that, where it is going to be distributed from, but I do feel like we are already doing detox. We just need to legitimately say, "This is what we are doing," and as it evolves, it is kind of like how I look at e-learning or Northern Distance Learning. It evolved. Let's provide this. Let's get it on the books that we are doing this. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Your time is up, so I am going to go to the Member for Nunakput.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Premier, I guess we have a lot of kids who are needing, more in my riding, help in regard to a whole number of individuals getting seen by proper healthcare. When you are talking to youth these days, they have it tough. Like Lesa said earlier today, we are having a problem with all of the new drugs that are coming into the Delta, the stuff that is happening there. We have to basically try to strengthen our community in regard to counselling services. The counsellors that we have are overworked, and they really need help. Is there any way that you are looking at or the department is looking at increasing counsellors coming into the communities, outlying communities, to talk, not only to our youth, but to our people with residential school and all of this other stuff that we have to deal with, who need help? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Absolutely. One of our mandates, if you see, is "Strengthening community counselling services," and the bullet is to "Increase support and counselling training opportunities for staff." That will go across. I do want to, again, promote the child and youth counsellors and the Pathways program, who are going into our schools. You are right; our youth are most in jeopardy. If we can catch them when they are younger, deal with their mental wellness, if we can give them alternatives, show them that there is hope out there, perhaps we will have less people. I don't believe that people, when they are young, decide one of their career choices is, "I am going to be an alcoholic or a hard drug user." I have never heard a child say that. That tells me that somewhere in between their childhood, adolescence, and adulthood, they made bad decisions, and so we need to interact then. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Nunakput.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just on the timeline, fall 2022, is there any chance of that moving up to getting our front-line workers help into the small communities? They are overworked now, and they need help. It is not so much training; it is just maybe an extra person to give them a hand. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I know that the Member didn't want training, but training is spring 2021. We are doing standardized screening and assessment tools to help people, to assess people. These timelines were defined between "be conservative because we are going to get slaughtered; we don't have enough money" and "be bold because we want to see some progress." It was kind of an in between. Some of these mandates we were already working on. Departments are already on. If we can get them done sooner, I would be the strongest advocate to get them done sooner. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Nunakput, just wait till your light goes on, and go ahead.
Thank you, Madam Chair. "Improving services for individuals of addictions." It is a big thing to send people out, and I am happy. A lot of people back home, they are taking that initiative upon themselves and trying to get help. We are pretty good with timing to get them sent out, but it is when they come back home. There is no mechanism for helping them when they come back home and when they have got to say, "No." Is there any plans to work with the communities or even with our community corporations in regards to helping our people that we have with addictions that come home, a support mechanism, either on-the-land or from the South with the four facilities, the four places that they do go? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Absolutely. In addition to the transitional housing that we are looking at because not all people can go home to their same home environment. It might not be the healthiest home environment. They might need some space. We are also looking at increasing our community-based peer support programs such as AA and Sobriety. They are not the only two models that I am attached to. We are open to seeing what the community say are models, and then the other one is working with our partners, Indigenous governments. They know best. We are open to ideas. We said over and over we cannot do this alone. We need to do this in partnership with the whole community, the whole NWT, and the federal government. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Nunakput.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair, in regards to that. Thank you, Madam Premier for that. I really like what I hear. I look forward to working with different health departments on getting some help for the people that we represent because we know everybody back home. Everybody, we know the troubles that everybody is going through. Just because somebody is smiling, it doesn't mean it is okay. Thank you for those answers. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Are there any further comments on the mandate item, "Increase the number and variety of culturally-respectful, community-based mental health and addictions programs, including aftercare?" Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Most of my life, I have been in business, so this is going to be kind of business-related. I don't hear anything in here with respect to providing support to people who have addictions but are employed and working in small business because small businesses don't have the money to provide the support that may be required, and sometimes that support is good. I guess I put myself as employer, and the people I have working for me, they felt comfortable enough to come and talk to me about their problems and their issues. Hopefully, throughout life, I have helped a few people. I guess you have got training dollars out there for the trades and whatever else, but it would be nice to see, something to assist employers to maybe bring somebody in once in a while just to have talks with employees. We have tried that before, and it seems to work.
I think that, most of the people I have had working for me have been Indigenous people. They have been from around the Northwest Territories. Like I said, I think they felt comfortable around me. I just see a benefit there, and we seem to ignore that. We look south for the answers, or we look other places, and we have tried stuff. It works sometimes. Sometimes, it doesn't work. We keep throwing money at plans and strategies and all that. Myself, I would like to see it go where it counts the most, and that is to help people. I guess the question is: do we have anything in place to assist people with addictions in the workplace? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am going to start with: do we have anything in the future? Do we have in existence? We need to be open to all ideas as we move forward. What do we have currently? Again, I am going to try to be politically correct. Not all people that have addictions are unemployed. In fact, the vast majority of them, I am guessing, may be employed. You have to have money to pay for your addictions. My father was a great weekend warrior. I don't know if people know that term. Come to me later if you don't understand the term. All of these services actually are for people, not only unemployed but employed. The community counselling that you can get from adults, the peer support programs we are talking about. AA is available for anybody. It is not a requirement you are employed or unemployed. I think Indigenous governments, what they do on the land, people might be willing to work with them, but we need to be open to ideas. I have heard you. I hear the need. We will discuss it and the idea of how we can support employers better. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Hay River South.
I thank you for that, and you are right. We do have to look at anything that comes forward because if we can piece something together and make it whole, then that is kind of what we want. It is up to us, I think, as government, in the bureaucracy, to go out and talk to the people. It is kind of like the training for trades and that. You bring somebody in, talk to all the employees. It would be nice to do the same with counsellors as well. It is not hard to do. For me, you will just call somebody up and say, can you come over, but not everybody can do that. Sometimes, people are just so busy trying to make a living. I think we have to take it upon ourselves to find ways to make it easier for people to assist in dealing with these issues. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. I didn't hear a question. Did you want a response? Thank you. Are there any further questions on addictions and aftercare? Seeing none, we will now move onto the second last mandate item which is "Increase the number of resident healthcare professionals by at least 20 percent." Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.
Thank you, Madam Chair. One of the hardest things, I think, working in healthcare is when you are working with clients and you are working with patients. You are coming in, and you are leaving. You are from another province, or you are in another territory or another hospital. It is so hard as any nurses that are permanent already here, signed on. I don't even think it is nurses. It is lab techs. It is all of them, having rotating co-workers that you are having to basically do your job, orientate almost every shift. It feels like you are constantly orientating. You are doing the job of two all the time. By meeting the needs of the numbers, sometimes we are doing that, but we are also burning out our own staff that are here and dedicated and living here. That is one thing I just wanted to bring up. It is not just that we have a shortage. It is that we are burning out the ones that are here, and maybe that is why they are also leaving, or you are seeing the majority of the ones that are here go half-time or quarter-time because they just don't want to be there all the time.
What I want to ask is, would the Premier or the Minister, commit to making sure that in this, or if it is HR, to do exit interviews with all healthcare staff that are leaving, to make sure that they are being done. I know that that might be a way to capture it. April 1st is coming up, and if we could do a scan of all of the health professionals who are leaving, maybe, who were permanent, and maybe do a scan of job shares that we have, to see why they won't sign on or stay. I could probably give you some answers, but it would be good to have that stuff documented, so that, over the next year, if we were able to do that, then we would have some concrete reasons why we can't keep them or why they are leaving. That is one thing that I would like to ask for a commitment from this mandate. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. With having a large hospital in the capital city, actually, I think most of the Yellowknife MLAs, correct me if I am wrong, but myself, for sure, during the campaign, the amount of nurses, doctors, and healthcare professionals in my riding was phenomenal. Literally, people were crying at the door, and I heard it very clearly. "It is not the money. We don't need the money. We are making good money. We need the break; we need the time. You are killing us." I heard that, and I carry that forward with me because we need to take care of not only the people needing services, but the people providing services.
You will see in here that we talk about working about employees and partners to identify factors contributing to retention challenges. You can ask them, but the best way, sometimes, to get the retention strategies and what the difficulties are is exit interviews. I am not going to commit to every single employee getting an exit interview, because I have done exit interviews in my past. You have the great intention, but sometimes people walk off the job. We will add exit interviews within our programming, and you will also notice that the whole priority is to get more people here, but we have talked about retention. This is about recruitment and retention; keep the ones that we have. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The other thing would be, too, just so that it is out there, and I know that some of the conversations that we are having today is kind of helping to help the departments with ideas. I know that, when we are bringing up casuals or terms, because that is what usually ends up happening, especially in my region. I was a hiring manager, so this was the reality to have people to take care of patients. The permanent staff, again, were very frustrated, because they couldn't get their holiday. You work, and if you have been there for 20 years, I think it is after seven years, you can get up to six weeks of vacation time, but you are very limited on when you can use it. A lot of these people are permanent, so it is like, "I can give you two weeks or three weeks in the summer. You can't use any more than that." Sometimes, it means, "We don't have any staff. You are not getting holidays," but you are permanent. Then we have casuals, terms, who can pick and choose when they want to come, and we have no control over that. Then, when they are here for a period of time, like, if they are a one-year term, they will get the training allowance. They will get this, and they will get that.
People who are signed on permanently don't get any more perks; they actually get less. These people are being flown in and out. It is almost like you get a free VTA if you stay as a term or a locum. You are getting a VTA all the time. We don't do VTAs, but this is the way that we need to have staff to take care of our residents. Permanents don't get to travel in and out. They get their northern living allowance on their paycheque, like everyone else. So do the terms; they get their northern living allowance. There is not a lot of strength in saying, "You are essential, and you are important. We need to make sure to keep you permanent." When I became a manager, when they were leaving, they were actually living in my community, but they were doing terms because they were like, "At least I can get holidays, and I can pick and choose. I don't have to work Christmas. I don't have to work the summer. I don't have to work spring break when my kids are off." We don't need this kind of a system, and I don't know how we are going to fix that, because I know there is going to be union involved, but I really think that that needs to be looked at. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Those are some of the ideas that we are hoping to draw out as we work with employees and partners to identify the factors contributing to retention. I am a social worker, it is kind of close, but I don't deal with blood. The reality is that I am thinking that the fact that we don't have enough healthcare professionals might be one of the biggest issues that we have with that. People do need to have holidays. We do need to keep them. I do believe that GNWT has strict policies on those things. If we are saying you can't, it is because we don't have enough staff. We need to get staff in. We need to figure out how we are getting them here. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I see it in a lot of the fields. We have ultrasound; we get this big influx of people who need to have an ultrasound when we get an ultrasound tech. Since we have had our permanent radiologist x-ray tech leave, we haven't been able to secure one in our region permanently, and they are on call 24 hours a day, seven days a week, and then working during the day. It is just a really unhealthy situation to be a staff in that. I look forward to this mandate growing legs and getting moving. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Did you want a response to that? That was a great image. Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Member for Nunakput.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just in regard to the nursing problems that we are having in our communities, with locums and stuff, the more locums we could get, the better, because I have about two and a half inches of paper, yellow sheets, that get faxed to me every day, reduction of core services in our community, and that is always with healthcare, them being overworked. Is there any plan in regard to getting more nurses, going out on hiring forums or something like that, to get more nurses for the communities? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That is part of the recruitment strategy, absolutely. We need to have a strategy, but we need to start getting down into places like universities and colleges that we can actually attain things. When I did my degree in social work, one of the best things I had seen every year was having people come and say, "We have jobs for you. Come and get a job." Both of my sons are in post-secondary now, and the same thing, they are saying this is one of the best things about us.
There are places out there. We need to figure out what we are doing, and we need to get out there, and we need to attract those people who are just graduating. Of course, taking people who are in the field already, selling the quality of life in the North, because we can't; they are not competing with the wages across Canada. It is an issue. However, we have special things in the North, promoting what we have, and getting into those universities and colleges where we can actually get the new workers. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Nunakput.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just in regard to that, Madam Premier, is there a way that you know from the hospitals, like in the Beaufort-Delta and for Inuvik, loaning nursing staff to our communities to make sure that people are being seen? When it is being shut down, you have to make appointments in the small communities. Staff is overworked, but the appointment part, people have to be seen. Is there any way that they could help out, I guess, on the HR side? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Minister of Health and Social Services.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I hear the Member's concern. One of the difficulties we have in our communities is the hiring, like finding the specialized nurses and the doctors or whoever it may be. They find the cost of living is quite high. Finding them housing is another challenge. These are challenges that we get right across the whole Northwest Territories. I hear the Member's concern about having specialized nurses or doctors come more frequently in the community. We need to look at that. That is important. Now, you find in some of the smaller communities, they just go make appointments on their own at bigger centres because they don't want to have these wait times. We see that. We know this is happening, and we need to do a better job as a department to recognize that and be able to look at different ways of making sure our patients are seen more quickly. That is important.
I would like to speak about the Member's previous concern about the recruitment. What we are doing as a department is we are developing three talent pools in order for recruitment. One is for the health and social service professionals, which includes the nurses; we are also doing one for physicians and also one for students. We want to engage students and youth earlier so we can get them engaged and seeking employees for the future. These are some of things that we are doing, we are looking to do, as a result of achieving our mandate. There are a lot of different things that we need to look to our departments to come up with faster ways so that our patients have better quality services. Even our regional staff, I am just told recently that some of our regional staff don't even have staff to lend, as I look across the floor, and it is true. We need to start looking at all of the different centres and the regions and making sure that we have enough resources in the centres to be able to have patient care. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister of health. Member for Nunakput.
Thank you, Madam Chair. No. Thank you, Minister, and thank you, Madam Premier, in regards to that. In the communities that I represent, we have apartments on top of our health centres. There are four apartments per health centre, and we are blessed for that for sure because you don't have to wait too long. You have just got to walk down the stairs. I am really very thankful for the staff that we have there, but they are just overworked. There has got to be a way that we could try to help them, to get more staff to help alleviate the pressure. They don't have to stay for long, a couple of weeks, maybe, or a month or something, just to get the job done, to make sure that they are seeing the constituents. Some of them are fighting cancer. There are so many different aspects and different stages of it, and we are trying. I talked to you before about getting a task force, like something to go into the communities to do pre-checks on constituents, especially further north, because, like I said, the flights to get out of the community into Inuvik to see a doctor on their own, it is just they can't do it. That is more of a comment, Madam Chair. Thank you.
