Debates of March 2, 2020 (day 12)

Thank you, Minister. Member for Kam Lake

Caitlin Cleveland

Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Can the Minister tell me what the additional amount that the GNWT stands to collect from unauthorized land occupancy would be?

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am hesitant to answer that. I think that may be a question that might come up as Lands comes before the committee. From the perspective of these positions, their role would be, firstly, to help determine whether or not there is an Indigenous right to a land that is being claimed or occupied, and then also to help enforce when there's a case of somebody who is unauthorized on the land. The role of these lawyers isn't primarily to be one of collection. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Kam Lake

Caitlin Cleveland

Kam Lake

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I just find it difficult to evaluate how effective this use of dollars is without knowing what we stand to collect and what we stand to gain from it, so I find it difficult to approve this without knowing what the other department stands to gain from it and, ultimately, what the GNWT stands to gain or lose from this addition to the budget. I just wanted to make sure that that was noted here. Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This was an opportunity or an attempt by the Department of Justice, rather than to be reactive to something happening within the government, to be proactive and to be prepared so that, when the roll-out of this program came through Lands, the Department of Justice would be there to support them. I take the Member's point, though, and I'll ensure that I work with my colleague from Lands so that resources are adequate to the program as it evolves. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Any further questions? Minister -- Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. I'll take that promotion. Can we just get a little bit more explanation as to what these three individuals are actually going to do? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This was an attempt on the part of the Department of Justice to identify and to review what the program of Lands was and to see what services would be required to Lands in order for them to be successful in their program. For example, there was initially determining if an individual has an Indigenous right to the land that is at issue. That is not often an uncomplicated process, legally. Then, also, as the program from Lands rolls out, to support the Department of Lands in terms of seeking to have somebody removed if they are, in fact, unauthorized in their occupancy, which is a legal process. It's anticipated and it's based on an estimate of the work load that will flow from that program. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Look, I'll be the first to agree with the Minister that the federal government didn't do a very good job when it came to squatters. This is what this is about, quite frankly. We're trying to pick up the legacy of federal mismanagement. The GNWT wasn't all that great, either, when it came to squatters, as well, but I think I've heard the Minister say that there is going to be some policy related to this that needs to be developed. Why are we springing forward so that we're going to have three positions as of April 1st going to court to get eviction orders when there is no policy framework that has been developed and there is nothing that has been put out there to explain how this is going to roll out? Do we really need three people right off the bat? That's what I'd like to know, Mr. Chair. Thank you.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, I'm taking the Members' points, both of them, that, indeed, we will need to work with my colleague in the Department of Lands to ensure this resourcing, while, again, we want to demonstrate ourselves to be proactive and not responsive to the program so that we're not simply coming back later and asking for more funding to do things that we should have predicted better, but I hear the Members and I hear the committee that we will have to work with Lands and with my colleague to ensure that the resources we are seeking here are, in fact, what we need to achieve the goals, and not excessive of that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, okay, so the Minister continues to make my case for me. Do we really need to have three right off the bat starting April 1st? Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. At this point, again, given that this is a program from the Department of Lands, I'll have to work with the Department of Lands and the Minister of the Department of Lands to ensure that, in fact, that program is being adequately supported and not under-resourced so that we are, again, being proactive and not simply responsive after the fact. I will commit to having that conversation. I will commit to giving it that analysis, and I am confident that we can all work forward over the next couple of weeks to determine if this is the right expenditure of resources. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. The difficulty is that we're dealing with this line item now, in this part of the budget. We can't wait until we hear from the Minister of Lands on this. I'm going to move to delete two of these positions from the budget, and I'd like to get some advice on how we go about doing this. Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Member. Minister, do you have any comments? Thank you. Either Member for Hay River North or House leader.

R.J. Simpson

Hay River North

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd like to draw the Chair's attention to the clock. It is 6:00 p.m., and according to Rule 6(1), the House must rise at 6:00 p.m., as we weren't put into extended hours. Thank you.

Magic hour is here. We will report progress.

Report of the Committee of the Whole