Thank you, Minister. Member for Kam Lake.
Thanks very much, Mr. Chair. Would the Minister be prepared to make a commitment to personally see what type of budget is allocated to the traditional counsellors within our corrections facilities in the Northwest Territories?
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Mr. Chair, I am assured that we can do that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. That was easy. Member for Kam Lake.
I need a button. Thank you. I appreciate that one a lot. I am wondering if the Minister can let us know what rate of Nunavut inmates choose to stay within Yellowknife following their incarceration. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. At the moment, in terms of just individuals who are adults in the North Slave, it appears that we have eight. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Kam Lake.
Just to clarify, is that we currently we have eight Nunavut inmates or 8 percent of inmates choose to stay within the capital following their incarceration? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. There are currently within the North Slave Correctional Facility eight individuals, four sentenced and four on remand, who are classified as being Nunavut prisoners. As far as it being a choice necessarily, Mr. Chair, it involves classification that is done by correctional officials, so just to be clear, it's not necessarily a choice either of the Department of Justice or of the individuals, but it depends on a variety of factors. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. In reviewing the budget, it's apparent that our corrections budget is over half of what we contribute, as the GNWT, to our housing budget, to the NWT Housing Corporation. Just in line with the Member for Yellowknife Centre's questions, finding ways to help people reintegrate back into their home communities would be very valuable to the government, so I am wondering if the Department of Justice has any plans to review corrections programs, to hopefully be able to work with inmates to better reduce recidivi -- oh, my gosh. I can't say that word, recidivi -- yes, what Mr. Norn said. Thank you.
---Laughter
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Mr. Chair, philosophically, I would say that I am fully in favour of improving reintegration of individuals to their community and reducing recidivism for all individuals who come into conflict with the law, whatever nature it might be. How we do that is much more complicated. That is the real nugget of the whole matter, Mr. Chair. I fully expect that I will continue to get questions and should get questions about how we are reintegrating, how we are reducing the rates of recidivism, how we are reducing the rates of contact with the justice system in the first place. I did make a very large note that says "housing" and underlined it earlier, and perhaps I will add a circle to it now. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Are there any further questions or comments with respect to corrections? Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just building on my colleague's comments regarding corrections, I think there is large recognition both professionally and best practices, that, if we can avoid putting people in corrections, we save money. We are spending millions of dollars constructing this new facility in Fort Smith. I question whether we should have just provided housing and addiction treatment to those people, but that is a different question. Can the Minister just explain, I often hear the new Fort Smith Correctional Complex referred to as a therapeutic model, how that is different from North Slave correctional facility?
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. There is a brand now complex in Fort Smith, which is obviously there, but it's not the therapeutic community. The therapeutic community is the one that is actually in Hay River. The idea there is that there are four phases that are going to be provided to individuals who come into contact with the system. From the very earliest integration into the facility, rather than being in a position where they are sort of told how to manage their lives and controlled, they are given increasing ability and opportunities to take responsibility for their own actions, and as they do that they move through the different phases and get increasing access to greater freedoms and greater opportunities as they go through the four phases. It's meant to be something where they're given that opportunity to truly take responsibility for their actions, for their lives, and for their own process as they go through a correctional programming, rather than be told by facility wardens or case officers what they have to do and how to do it. It's turning the model in terms of taking responsibility and integrating that process throughout the person's stay at the facility. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Sorry, I was confused about the difference between the Hay River complex, the new Fort Smith complex, and the North Slave correctional complex. I'm fully supportive of the Hay River therapeutic community model, I think it is the future of corrections. There seems to be recognition by all parties that these are the steps we should be taking, so my question to the Minister of Justice is: why is the new Fort Smith facility and North Slave not also using this therapeutic community model, if we recognize it as the direction we want to be going?
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The facilities that are based in Fort Smith, certainly the one that is for male individuals, is often one that receives individuals who have other, higher needs. For example, often with mental health challenges, which wouldn't necessarily be appropriate for the therapeutic model. The North Slave facility is the facility that generally houses, first of all, more remand individuals, but also often higher risk individuals. There may be a vision, and the time may come where other facilities can transition or add to their programming, but for the moment, what's happening in Hay River is the first of its kind in the North. We are going to start with one, and the other facilities continue to have to maintain needs and respond to needs for the other classifications of risk that still come into contact with the Justice System. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Thebacha.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to just make a comment first before I ask the question, and that is that I'm very proud to say that most of the people at the two facilities in Fort Smith are extremely qualified and do an excellent job. I've been to both facilities at various times with clients, especially when I was with my other leadership role in Salt River. I support both facilities and the staff. There are some gaps in the system, and a lot of the people in there are long-term residents, members of Salt River, members of the Metis community that are staffing these units. They run a really incredible atmosphere at both facilities. I want to commend them for that. There's some of the staff members that have sometimes get into, maybe a problem of some kind, whether it be, could be a DUI or something, and it hasn't gone to court yet. Then they're disciplined in a certain manner, and they get fired without just cause. Then there have been times when the offence didn't even go to court, and they've been fired. They've gone to the union, and the union takes too long to get to the case, and the family has been ruined.
I want to know if you, as the Minister, would put a more objective group in place for these kind of cases and it not be a form of dictatorship and a trial and everything else in your department by one or two people that are doing this and letting this happen when a whole family is ruined because of this. It's happened a couple times. I've had a couple of people at Salt River when I was there that that had happened to, and since then I've had about 10 people come to me and explain this whole situation to me of what's been happening with dictatorship, injustice for people. They have rights. Everybody in Canada has a right. You're with the Department of Justice. I want to know how you're going to deal with that.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Human resources happen to fall within the purviews of the Department of Finance. I happen to know, whether wearing either one of my hats, that the Department of Justice and supported by the Department of Finance, do have robust policies in place that they follow whenever there is a question of needing to terminate an individual. Individuals who work within the corrections service, by necessity, have to meet a very high standard of conduct, given the position of trust that they're in and that, if there are concerns with their performance, that those processes are the processes to evaluate their performance in human resources are going to be followed. It is my responsibility, and will be my responsibility, to ensure that those processes are followed, to review those processes if necessary. I can certainly commit to doing so if necessary in order to ensure that those procedures and processes, which are meant to be objective and independent and fair, are followed. I'm confident our partners in the union will do the same and will take their roles seriously, and I would like to assure the Member that we will continue to perform those functions in the best accordance with the law. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Just a reminder to all the Members, as well, that any questions go to the chair first, not directed to the Minister. Member for Thebacha.
Mr. Chair, I also want to ask the Minister why we are following BC standards and not using Canadian standards in justice?
Thank you, Member. Minister.
I can only assume, Mr. Chair, that the Member might be referring to the fact that there are individuals who have attended the Northwest Territories from British Columbia with specialized skills, to deliver specialized training, but the Department of Justice applies, to the extent that there is a criminal code, the federal criminal code, and to the extent that it's the laws of the Northwest Territories, and indeed we have developed our own training program for corrections officers with northern components within that, and will continue to refine and deliver that program in the Northwest Territories to corrections officers here. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Thebacha. Corrections. Please turn to page 267. Justice, corrections, operations expenditure summary, 2020-2021 Main Estimates, $38,511,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Committee agrees. Thank you. The next section is court services, beginning on page 270, information item on page 272. Are there any questions? No questions. Please turn to page 271. Justice, court services, operations expenditure summary, 2020-2021 Main Estimates, $14,281,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Agreed. Thank you, committee. Legal aid services, beginning on page 273, with information item on page 275. Any questions? Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am looking at the compensation and benefits line under legal aid services, and I see it's increased by about $900,000 since the 2018-2019 actuals. Can the Minister tell us what's driving this increase? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just confirming that the actuals can sometimes include vacant positions that may or may not have been filled at the time, whereas the main estimates assumes all the positions that have been allocated to the department. We would point back to the revised estimates to show the difference. I can note, Mr. Chair, that there is some increase as a result of increases related to the collective agreement, and the increase in funding for one additional position with the outreach lawyer. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. No further questions. Any further questions with respect to legal aid services? No further questions. Please turn to page 274. Justice, legal aid services, operations expenditures summary, 2020-2021 Main Estimates, $7,013,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Office of the Regulator of Oil and Gas Operations beginning on page 276 with information item on page 278. Any questions? Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I'm just wondering, the Minister's in kind of a funny position here with regard to the OROGO budget. Is this prepared by the staff of OROGO, and then, provided to the Minister for review and/or approval? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Staff of OROGO do, certainly, have a significant role in completing the materials and it, of course, still have to be put together in conjunction with the Department of Justice. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Does this budget go to the Financial Management Board? Who signs off on the budget? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Mr. Chair, it follows the same process as the rest of the main estimates. Thank you.
