Thank you. Right now, the Senior Home Heating Subsidy, I think a lot of people see it as covering 100 percent of the costs. The fact is that it is intended to cover about 74 percent of the average cost of heating a home, an average home, in a particular region; and so each region is different. What we are proposing and what we are going to do is increase that 74 percent to 80 percent. It's not 100 percent, but it is a larger increase.
One of the issues that I find people run into that, you know, this was a cold winter, especially up in the Beaufort-Delta, and seniors, they spend all of their heating money by February, and then, if they want a fill-up, each fill-up is a minimum of $300, and they don't have that $300. One of the options is looking at, if it is a subsidy and there is an expected contribution, perhaps every fill-up, there is a contribution from the senior. So, you know, instead of having a $300 contribution all at once at the end, maybe a few of them in a row, you make small contributions throughout the year so that you can extend that. There are administrative issues surrounding that, but that's just one of the options.
The other initiative the Member mentioned was creating -- sorry, one second, here. I want to get the wording right. I guess it was the position or the stream of Income Assistance for seniors, I believe. There is work under way to figure out how we can do that. There is no point in having seniors who have aged out of the workforce reporting their income every single month. I know seniors on Income Assistance who have difficulty getting out of the house. They have medical issues that keep them homebound, and it's difficult for them just to do that basic reporting. Even if you payroll them, it's still a big issue to get out of there every three or six or 12 months. The idea is to treat those people who are collecting Income Assistance differently from the people who are able-bodied and who have fallen on hard times. They are two completely different populations, and there is no point in having them lumped together in a single program, and so the idea is to separate those programs so that it serves those distinct populations better. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the Minister for that response, as well. I guess I had a quick comment. I was just doing some research here, just earlier, on the NWT statistics on some age demographics, and it looks like we're going to start to see an influx of people retiring. I'm just wondering: are we going to expect to see an increase with these two line items that I just mentioned, moving forward? I have a feeling that we're going to be seeing an increase in applications for these programs. Mahsi cho, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. It's hard to predict a lot of these programs, but I think that, if you look at the statistics of the number of people who are getting to a certain age, more people are going to become eligible for the programs, and hence there is going to be more uptake. That's certainly what we've seen. You know, there are also fuel prices. While these aren't tied to fuel prices, necessarily, if a senior runs out of fuel, we don't just leave them hanging. If they've used their entire benefit and they still are eligible for Income Assistance, we'll help them out so that their house doesn't freeze in the middle of February in minus 40. Right? And so those types of costs also grow, and those are based on the fuel cost. If the price of fuel doubles, they're going to run out more quickly and we're going to be providing more of that additional assistance, as well. Unfortunately, like most of these types of programs in the territory, I imagine that costs will go up. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you again for that response. Helping elders in the middle of winter like that sounds good to me. That sounds dignified. I'd like to hear more of that and hear that from other departments. That's just a comment, and that's all I have to say. Mahsi cho.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. Again, I'll bring this back to what I've been saying and what everyone has been saying here, that it would be great if we could increase all of these programs and do all of these things we want to do, but we have to focus on the priorities of the Assembly and the mandate. There are a lot of great ideas and wonderful things that I would like to see done in Income Assistance, but they all cost money, and so I want to temper everyone's expectations. While I am open to discussing everything and changing what we can do, changing our mentality, it all costs money, and so I am not guaranteeing it's all going to get done or even any of it is going to get done. However, if we can do things better, that is what I want to do, and I want to work with the Members to do that. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Thebacha.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to ask a question on the student financial assistance. For the 2018-2019 actuals to now, there has been an increase. Does that mean there are more students enrolled, or does it mean an increase in student financial assistance?
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. The budget has remained the same, but there are more students projected to access it, so we budgeted it higher than we needed to, I guess, in the last round, so there were fewer students accessing it. Going forward, hopefully, we have more students accessing it.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Thebacha.
I just want to make sure that all students who want to take post-secondary education have access. I am saying that because we had a problem just before Christmas with regard to the new aviation program that was being held in Fort Smith. In the end, I want to make sure that post-secondary education includes pilots, that it does not necessarily have to all be associated with Aurora College or University of Alberta or anywhere else in Canada, and I want to make sure that access is important for all students of the Northwest Territories and there is no distinguishment of where they are going to school. That is all I am asking.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. The way that SFA determines whether or not a school is eligible is based on a master list. You can access it. It's a federal list of accredited universities. It's accessible through the SFA website. If you go on there, you can search for a school and, if it's on that list, then, if it is a program leading to a licence, certificate, diploma, bachelors, masters, et cetera, then it's an eligible school. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Thebacha.
I don't have any other questions. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Any further questions on income security? There are no further questions. Please turn to page 46, Education, Culture and Employment, income security, operations expenditure summary, 2020-2021 Main Estimates, $54,359,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. The next section is labour development and advanced education, beginning on page 49 with information items on pages 53 to 60. Minister.
[Microphone turned off]
We can't hear you. I guess it sounds like it's dinner time, according to Ms. Chinna, so we will break for five minutes. We will have a recess for about 20 minutes. Thank you.
---SHORT RECESS
I'd like to call committee back to order. We are reviewing the budget for the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Key activity, labour development and advanced education. Does anyone have any questions on this key activity? Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm on page 51, and trades and occupations wage subsidy. I see in 2018-2019, it was 655, and it got bumped up to almost double next year. What was the reason for that? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister.
Thank you. There was no change in the budget. Just the actuals were low that year because it was undersubscribed. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess I should have looked at it. I didn't have my glasses on. With respect to the trades subsidy of $1,072,000, is that allocated by region or by need? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister.
Thank you. I'm going to hand this over to Mr. Saturnino who can, perhaps, provide a bit more detail. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Saturnino.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The trades and occupations wage subsidy is allocated at a regional level, and it's based on the number of apprentices distributed throughout the regions. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Saturnino. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. If the wage subsidy program is not used up, what happens to the funds that are sitting there? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister.
Thank you. Just to be clear, the fund is distributed on a needs basis, basically first come, first served. It's not allocated per region, say a quarter or a fifth to each region. It's just first come, first served and needs. The funds that aren't allocated, they do not get spent, basically; they go back to the general coffers, just like any other budget line that is not fully spent. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. One of the problems that I guess I found with the trades programs or with the trades, I guess, in itself, is that we do not have enough tradespeople to provide the ticket for which the apprentices can work under. Is there any intent or any interest in your department looking at other methods to make this happen? For instance, my understanding is that you have to have somebody on payroll, which to me means you pay somebody one dollar a year remuneration and that should be sufficient; would that be an option? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister.
Thank you. I am very familiar with this. I have had constituent businesses who have brought this issue to my attention time and time again, and I have had discussions with the department about what we can do to address this issue. Questions earlier in the House today reminded me of this. You know, dental hygienists can't perform their work because there are no dentists around. Similarly, apprentices can't get their hours and can't move to journeypersons because there are no journeypersons around. We have discussed some different approaches, and, in the mandate, we have an item in there that somewhat speaks to it in broad terms, that we are looking at ways to allow apprentices to get those hours without having that constant supervision of a journeyman around, whatever that might look like. That is not a fully formed plan yet, but the concept is there to address this exact need the Member is speaking about. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess my understanding is the ratio is kind of two apprentices per journeyperson. Is that the ratio that is allowed right now? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister.
Correct, thank you.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Are you considering changing that ratio, as well, to, say, maybe three or four or five apprentices per journeyperson? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister.
Thank you. That flexibility is available. We can do that, from my understanding, without a change to the regulations or any acts, and so again that is the type of initiative we might be looking at. We need to be flexible. We have journeymen retiring at an accelerating rate, it seems like, and we have not been doing what we need to do to replace them over the past number of years. All across Canada, we are facing a shortage in skilled labour, and, just like anything else, the North is an extreme example of that. This is at the front of my mind. We are not going to build local economies, we are not going to keep money in the North unless we can increase the number of apprentices and journeypersons, and I am fully committed to doing my best to making that happen. Thank you.
