I have a question. We had a recent Auditor General's report, and I want to make sure that there's going to be enough financial allocation to fill those gaps at the DA level, so we could address some of those concerns in the Auditor General's report?
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. I agree. I want to make sure that we have the resources available to do that. Everyone knows what our fiscal situation is. Everyone knows how much is being committed to new initiatives. What the report of the auditor general says, and what the priorities of this Assembly say, and what the mandate of this government says is all the same thing essentially. It's mandating us to do what we do. The Department of Education, Culture and Employment is supposed to be increasing educational outcomes. It's supposed to be increasing early developmental index scores. Those are the things that we're supposed to do. Everything that we do is focused on that.
Sometimes it's not a matter of throwing money at it. It would make it easier, probably. If we don't have the money, we need to focus on making the kind of changes that are going to have the biggest impact. A lot of that is focusing on early childhood education so that we don't run into a lot of the problems that we're running into. We have to review the policies that we have. We have to review how we administer and how we dictate what inclusive schooling means and what it is. All those things don't necessarily take a lot of money although they do take money, but given the fact that we don't have the kind of money that I would love to see in education, we're going to have to do the best with what we can. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Thebacha.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I also want to talk a little bit about inclusive schooling. When the junior kindergarten came into play, there were gaps because of junior kindergarten, and inclusive schooling isn't back to where it used to be. There were a lot of extracurricular activities that were taken away from both schools in Fort Smith, and there is still a financial gap because of junior kindergarten. All our funds, all excessive funds, were always given to the junior kindergarten program, and there have been some financial gaps. I wonder when those gaps are going to be closed. I do all of my volunteer work at both schools; I always did, since 1995. You know, I support both schools and I support the education system, and I just feel that there are some gaps that have to be filled.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. Junior kindergarten is funded the same way that every other grade in a school is funded, so there should be no financial gaps. There are more students, there are more classes, but there is more money that is flowing the same way as if that was additional students in grade one, or if you had to open up a second grade one class. It's the same type of money. That being said, I know that schools are often tight for cash. You know, you talk to some principals, and they say they have to determine whether they are going to buy these supplies, these books, maybe, that the class might need, or they're going to buy toilet paper. You know, those are tough decisions.
The way that we flow money, the way that education councils flow money to schools, is another thing that we're looking at. The funding formula in the mandate says that we are committed to looking at that and figuring out if it's working. You know, we provide $155 million to the education councils. Is that money being spent in the best possible way? I know that, when it reaches the schools, the people on the ground, they know what to do with that money. They know where those gaps are, and they know how to fill those holes; but we have to make sure that all the money that needs to get there is getting there. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Thebacha.
I just have one final comment, and that has to do, again, with the territorial support team. If they're not doing regular territorial support team referrals to the communities on a regular basis, that is also a gap that I see. I think that, if it is a territorial support team and they are stationed here in Yellowknife, they should be making regular visits to the schools and to all the communities so that they have access to the territorial support team, even without referral. Everybody needs a team like that. You know, to have a qualified team like that, it supposedly should be at the disposal of all the citizens of the Northwest Territories, and I hope there is a way that we can make sure that, with future needs, and especially with the special needs children, we all have the same access. Thank you, Mr. Chair. That's all I have to say. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. The team does get out to communities. It does engage with students from all over the territory, in person; well, rather it engages with the principals and the teachers in person, by phone, over video chat. It's not just based in Yellowknife. What I'm saying is they don't do regular scheduled visits; it's not like, the third Wednesday of every month, they're in this community. The team doesn't work like that. It's referral-based, and these referrals are for assistance with students who have the highest needs in the territory. You know, a lot of students have needs. There is always a wide variety. These are the students with the highest needs, who the teachers and the principals have not been able to find a way to teach effectively, for a variety of reasons.
I take the Member's point that we need assistance across the territory. This is a very specialized team that deals with a relatively small number of students throughout the territory, and I'm not sure if making regularly scheduled visits around is the best use of their time. Again, I wish that we had speech pathologists in all the regions. It's very valuable; but the fact is we don't, and so we're targeting certain cases with this team. I take the Member's point, and I thank her for her passion.
Thank you, Minister. Next on the list is the Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I have a couple of areas I'd like to explore. One is early learning childcare. The funding shown on page 41 actually looks like it's declining over time. The backdrop to this is that the early development instrument results were released in 2018, and they actually showed an increase in the vulnerability of our youngest students, children up to age five, which is not a good place to be. I know the former Premier got some, maybe, headlines that he really didn't want to get for talking about that in the media. In every single study I've ever seen about investment in early childhood development, big payoffs, 7 to 1, 10 to 1. TD Bank, I know, did a study on this. What is happening here with declining funding in this area of the budget? The results are things are getting worse, and how are we going to fix this? That's my question for the Minister. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. In the early years of the agreement, money could be carried over, and so it shows up in here as more money at certain times. Then we have the decrease in the early childhood development and learning agreement due to the fact that it's sunsetting. Those are the issues with that. I agree; investments in early childhood are the best bang for your buck you can get, probably across any department. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Well, this should make for some very interesting discussions when it comes to the supplementary appropriation in May-June, where we're going to try to get the biggest bang for our bucks. It's wonderful that the Minister and I are on the same page on this, and I look forward to more money in the supp for this particular investment. I want to go, though, to the funding formula for schools. I think that the Minister, even today, has said that that's something that is going to be reviewed. I'm just wondering if he can give us a little bit more explanation of how and when that's going to take place. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
The evaluation of the funding formula will take place in the coming years. We just put this mandate out, and committee knows there has been a lot of back and forth. The policy shops and all the departments have been going full-tilt and haven't necessarily had a chance to lay out our plan for the next four years. That's what we're working on. We know what we want to do. How exactly we're going to do it, that's still being worked out, so I don't have the details of this funding formula, but it's going to take engagement, obviously. I have my own concerns with this. As a Member for four years, I heard a lot about this. As I travel around the territory, too, I visit a school; everywhere I go, I visit the schools. You talk to the people who have to administer this funding, and you see the gaps that the previous Member mentioned.
There are some things that appear obvious, and so we have a good idea of where we need to start. I could go on about what we could possibly do, but, to the Member's point, I don't have a framework that we are going to evaluate the framework by at this point, and I don't have a concrete timeline, although that work is going to begin as soon as we are done with this whole process and we have a concrete plan to move forward. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I want to thank the Minister for his honesty in all of that and forthrightness. I do have some ideas, though, that I will pitch his way. There was a collaborative approach taken with the NWTAC for the municipal funding gap review. There was a working group. They looked at the issue. They looked at some alternatives. It included people from MACA, as well. One of the principles that they said was that no community should lose funding as a result of this. I think that is a good thing. I think that is something you might want to think about as a principle for looking at the rejigging of the school funding formula, that no school should maybe lose money, so it's really about building all of our schools together. I trust that the Minister is going to do this in a collaborative fashion.
I guess the two things that I have heard in the short time that I have been here that are really problematic: one, inclusive schooling, that it should be more of a needs-based approach in terms of not just based on total enrolment; you really have to look at the needs of the kids in any particular school, in any particular district, to understand what it is that they need to help with and build inclusive schooling. That is one thing I have heard, and then, secondly: where there is a drop in enrolment from one year to the next, that can cause kind of a dramatic change in funding for a school authority, and it's kind of hard to make those sudden adjustments in terms of staffing and so on. I am aware that there are a couple of jurisdictions, I think in Manitoba and Ontario, where, even if there is a drastic change in enrolment, it's a phased-in approach to changing the formula so that a school board's funding doesn't go precipitously like this. Are those the kinds of things, though, that the department is going to look at in reviewing the school funding formula? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. I will say the department has done some preliminary work on this already, on the funding formula. We are going to have to work together, talk about collaborative fashions, the education leaders, the chairs of the authorities in all of the different communities. There has been a lot of interest from Indigenous governments on this, as well, not just the funding formula but the act and how the renewal or the modernization of the act will relate to Indigenous governments and their involvement. If they are going to have a greater involvement, direct involvement, then they are going to be interested in this funding, so we need to engage with everyone.
I have either made an offer or the committee has asked for a briefing on the funding formula, and I am happy to do that. I am not sure if I have signed the official letter yet, but I am always happy to provide briefings. The Member mentioned a few different ideas, and I think I have probably discussed them in this House with everyone so far. There are a lot of good ideas out there. Do we need to fund schools based on enrolment, or do we need to fund schools based on the outcomes we want to see? It's an interesting concept. It might be too expensive of a concept for us, but it's something that we are looking into. I am not just going to close the door on anything just because it might be too expensive. We are going to look into everything we can. I mean, I could go on and on, but I appreciate all of the comments that we are getting from everyone and everyone I speak to because everyone is affected by the education system and they all want to have their say, and I am happy to hear it. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Yes, I appreciate the Minister's comments, and I am sure he will be happy to do this, but can he make a commitment to come to standing committee to talk about this? I know he is going to brief us, brief committee, on the funding formula itself, but in terms of a process of reviewing and changing, is he willing to come to committee and seek committee's input into designing that process? Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, and of course maybe we can do it all at once because I haven't had a chance to get in front of committee once yet, so, next time I get an opportunity, I will make the most of it. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Next up is the Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. My question is: there are a number of Jordan's Principles initiatives that would fall under these areas. Can I just clarify whether there is any Jordan's Principle money in this budget?
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. No, there is not.
Member.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess my concern is that, in a number of regions, I believe Jordan's Principle funding is essentially propping up our education or early childhood systems, whether it's speech therapists or educational supports. Do we presently track how much Jordan's Principle money is entering our system?
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. Yes, we do. We track the funding amount entering each education council's or authority's region as well as the number of positions that that money is being used to fund. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. May I have the total amount right now flowing to our education authorities?
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. For the 2019-2020 school year as of December 2019, the combined amount received by education authorities in the territory was $15,960,616, and there were 173.26 positions created using that money. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I sometimes wish that I could have a federal Minister in front of me. The fact that there is $15 million and a lot of positions presently being funded by our federal government, do we have a sense of the stability of that funding? I know this is a question a federal Minister would have to answer, but is Jordan's Principle's funding going to disappear anytime? That is a huge amount flowing directly to our schools.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. I think the indications from the federal government is that this is funding that they would like to see entrenched. Perhaps I can hand it over to Mr. MacDonald, who might have some more information.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. MacDonald.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, federal funding is actually divided into two separate programs, both delivered through Indigenous Services Canada. One program is the better known. It's Jordan's Principle, and that program is funded based on a Human Rights Tribunal decision, so the federal government has a long-term policy and funding commitment for Jordan's Principle. The second program is known as Children First, and it's basically a similar program, designed for Inuit children who need those same services. That program does not have the same degree of permanence to it at this time, as far as we are aware. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. MacDonald. Minister.
Thank you.
Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess I kind of want to save myself time asking every department that has Jordan's Principle funding applying to it and flowing through it. Once again, I know this is a federal government initiative, but perhaps, I am looking at the Minister of Finance, we could have a breakdown of the total Jordan's Principle funding that is existing within the GNWT right now?
Thank you, Member. Minister.
