Thank you, Minister. Member for Deh Cho.
It sounds like the GNWT will be administering and approving all lands applications. Is that what you're saying? Mahsi.
Thank you, Member for Deh Cho. Minister of Lands.
Thank you. Yes, the Government of the Northwest Territories does manage the Commissioner's and NWT lands, or the amalgamation of it, and we work in consultation with the municipal governments. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Deh Cho.
I don't know. Maybe it's happening already, but do the municipalities get a share of any fees that are charged on the lands? Mahsi?
Thank you, Member for Deh Cho. Minister of Lands.
No, not with the leases. They get the taxes. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Deh Cho. Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to begin with the equity leases. Can the Minister of Lands tell me how many equity leases there are outstanding and the total amount owed on them?
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Lands.
Thank you. It's 218 equity leases right now. As for the total amount owing, we will have to get that information, because that's pretty detailed. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I would appreciate having that figure, because I see we're spending millions of dollars every year in equity lease administration, and I'm questioning whether there is actually even that much money owing under the equity leases. Will the Minister commit that, by the end of this Assembly, we will have dealt with the remaining equity leases?
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Lands.
Thank you. I would love to say yes, but some of the leases actually extend beyond this Assembly. What we're trying to do is work with the clients and trying to be as proactive as we can to get this equity lease issue dealt with. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess this goes back to that issue. I question if there is outstanding money on people's equity leases, and they're not making payments, and we agree that we will eventually give them the land in fee simple. Why are we spending millions of dollars administering this when we could simply just hand over the land? Is the Department of Lands willing to look into cases where there may be outstanding fees? Is the Department of Lands willing to conduct an analysis of whether we're actually spending more money administering equity leases than we are actually owed at the end of the day?
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Lands.
Thank you, Madam Chair. First and foremost, when we're looking at equity leases, it's about compliance, making sure the property is there. Also, in regard to the money, if we do waive their fees, we're going to have other people asking for their fees to be waived. What we're trying to do is work with the clients, the leaseholders, to do what's right, moving forward. The biggest challenge right now, from what we're seeing, is the compliance issue. We need to be compliant with the lease agreement so that we can turn it over. We would love for people to be able to turn over the land based on the work that we're trying to do. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Perhaps I don't understand. Ultimately, if we're going to hand over the land in fee simple, which will have inherently different conditions, it's a different basket of rights than an equity lease. Why does the person have to be compliant before we just give them the land in fee simple?
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Lands.
I'm going to start, and then I'm going to turn to my assistant deputy minister. First and foremost, each equity lease has some different flavour to it, so that needs to be addressed. Again, it could be that we turn it over for $1, or we sell it for a value, what the appraised value is. As for compliance, if we turn over a piece of property that's not compliant and we have problems in the future, the GNWT is liable. I understand why the Member is looking at it, but we want to make sure we do it right, and that's the most important part of it, making sure that people are compliant, and working with them moving forward. At this point in time, with your permission, I'd ask the assistant deputy minister to add to it.
Thank you, Minister of Lands. Mr. Baetz.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I think one of the important things with respect to the compliance question is that it doesn't make a whole bunch of sense for the Government of the NWT to transfer over a parcel of land that, as soon as we sign on the dotted line, an individual might not be compliant with a community bylaw. A lot of the compliance things that we are talking about aren't just with respect to the lease itself, although the lease itself does reflect what some of the bylaws are with respect to setback from property lines and so forth. There are also challenges with respect to whether or not they're compliant, or whether a leaseholder is compliant with some of the financial admin requirements, whether or not they are paid up on their taxes, whether or not they are behind in other types of payments that need to happen.
It is important for us to be as fair and equitable across the board with everybody, and if we were to forgive and just move forward to fee simple title for those who haven't gone through the whole equity lease program, or who are non-compliant in some other way, shape, or form, it makes it difficult to try to demonstrate that we are being fair and equitable across all equity leaseholders across the territory. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Baetz. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. If we transfer the land in fee simple, and then it's not complying with a community bylaw, those bylaws still apply, and it's the responsibility of the community to deal with that. This issue of, you know, "If it's there's not financial compliance," but we're actually spending millions of dollars a year trying to get people in compliance, many of whom are Indigenous rights holders. There is a lot of complexity here that I believe the Department of Lands needs to take a better look at.
I would like to move on, though. In my riding of Yellowknife North, we have already started converting a number of leases to fee simples, beginning with Cassidy Point. Is the Minister of Lands willing to continue converting the leases up the Ingraham Trail to fee simple?
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Lands.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We're talking recreational leases and that. That's something different than equity leases. Equity leases have been agreements made by the government and the constituent or the client to turn that over. The Member is asking us to look outside the boundary, to look at his riding that he represents and other ridings that have this issue. Right now, we're not able to do that. Right now, we have to focus on trying to get the tasks that we need to get done. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate that answer. It was a priority of the 18th Assembly to begin this work and complete a Yellowknife periphery area recreation management plan. Can the Minister update me on what the status of that is?
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Lands.
Thank you. At this point in time, I would ask the assistant deputy minister to answer that question. Thank you.
Thank you. Mr. Baetz.
The Yellowknife periphery area plan was a piece of work that was started a number of years ago. The department has gone through a number of different components to it with respect to the recreational leasing management framework that was created, and that was nearly complete. One of the things that we needed to do, as well, as we were working through the periphery area, or the YPA, was to ensure that we engaged and that we had on board all of the Indigenous organizations that we needed to have. Not to say that we don't have everybody on board, but we are continuing to work with Indigenous organizations to ensure that everybody is on the same page and everybody understands exactly what direction we are going and how we are going about it. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Baetz. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I think I am going to rephrase that. What happened is we started the work on the Yellowknife management plan, and then the Department of Lands failed to do adequate consultation, got some resistance from Indigenous governments, and now the plan is not complete. I struggle with why the Department of Lands, which is responsible for the land in the Northwest Territories, cannot do proper consultation. My question is: when will we see the Yellowknife periphery area recreation management plan complete?
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Lands.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am not going to say that we didn't or we did. We are working on our consultation. We are working with Aboriginal groups. We haven't stopped working on this plan. To get it completed, we don't know what the completion date is as we move forward. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I want to go to the equity lease line here. It's declining from last year. My understanding was that there was an issue with regard to the terms of some of these equity leases, and there was an appearance of lack of fairness around this and that the department was trying to bring some consistency with this and get all of the equity leases moved over into fee simple title.
It's not really a question of revenue here; it's a question about cleaning up this mess that we inherited from previous land administration. Whether it was GNWT and/or the feds, it was a bad practice. Maybe we want to get into that eventually, but it needs to be a fair and consistent approach. I would like to know: how many leases have we actually converted into fee simple title so far, as that's cost us a million dollars? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Minister of Lands.
First of all, when we spent the million dollars, it's about the whole process. It's not just that, well, we did one or 12 or 14; it's about the whole process. If the Member wants a complete breakdown, we can give him the complete breakdown in writing, or does he want the number here today? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Yes, look, I probably mischaracterized this. I know that there had to be a bunch of policy work, people reviewing the terms of all of these leases; you had to go out and do inspections. I get all of that. A lot of front-end work had to be done. I understand that. I just want to know, now, how many have actually been converted to fee simple title, and are we on schedule to get this finished and fixed? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Minister of Lands.
Thank you, Madam Chair. One has been completed in the settled region, and seven more are in progress. I know that, in the riding that I represent, when I was talking to the superintendent there, we're very close again. It's about the compliance issue; that's the biggest challenge, is to get people compliant, and we'd be able to move forward on those. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. We have eight done, 218 to go. How many more years of funding does the department require or was originally budgeted to get this equity lease issue completed? Thanks, Madam Chair.
