Thank you, Madam Chair. I look forward to further discussions on this. I've spoken with a number of Indigenous governments who, if the Housing Corporation and the local housing authorities would simply be transferred over to them, and the funding and the units, they would gladly take that on and they would go to CMHC and get better funding than us. I'll continue to talk about this.
I wanted to speak a bit about the cap on units. I know the Minister doesn't like thinking of it as a cap, but that is simply what it is. I've heard a number of numbers; 2,400 units is what I understood are public housing, but I understand we manage around 2,800, but then I also heard 2,600. Can I just get some clarification on those different numbers I hear?
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation.
I'll have Mr. Carpenter elaborate on the amount of units and clarification on what it is that the Housing Corporation administers and how. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Carpenter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to give Member the specifics on what we're operating as our public-housing-unit inventory that we're running right now is 2,418. We also run some units under what we call affordable housing, that we rent out as a home ownership type program at 221. We have a portfolio of 190 units in what we call our market units. These are in communities where there is no private market. They're typically rented to teachers and nurses. That should get us close to the 2,800 figure. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Carpenter. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I do appreciate that breakdown, and I guess it wouldn't be fair for us when referring to the cap to include market because, if we can build more market housing and then it pays for itself or even makes us money, then that's great. I guess my question is: I'm not satisfied with our current mandate commitment which says we'll build 100 units if we can convince 100 people to get units. In many of the communities, a house is not an investment; it's a depreciating asset, and we're just passing on something that will never increase in value to a person. I question whether that's ethical or something we even want to do in nonmarket communities. The heart of this matter is Nunavut's building hundreds of new units. They've managed to get money out of CMHC; they managed to surpass their cap, so will the Minister of housing meet with the appropriate Minister in Ottawa and try to get us above this 2,400-unit cap?
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I actually had made a trip down to Ottawa in February, and I wanted to just elaborate on that trip a little bit. I did identify the housing needs for the Northwest Territories, and I also did meet with the housing Minister for Nunavut, as well. Looking at the support that we have in the Northwest Territories, they do have an advocacy group where they do have ITK. In the Northwest Territories, we have our Indigenous groups, but it's challenging to get them all together to lobby at the same time so that we're able to achieve a certain amount of federal dollars coming forward. Going forward, I have instructed my staff to make their way down to Ottawa and lobby, as well. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. I have Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I have questions that follow along from my colleague, the Member for Yellowknife North. I know that the Housing Corporation has invested money in research such as the seniors study and the community survey, which includes the housing need numbers, and that they are now investing in community plans. My specific question is: how does funding relate to the results of all of these studies? The seniors study says we need more seniors' housing. The community survey shows more housing need in 2019 than 2014. I'm going to say the community plans are going to say we need more houses. How is the study going to be related to the funding for the results? Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I know there are a lot of studies that we've done, but they've been done over a significant amount of years. Looking at the changing of the wants in the communities, what we could identify was that the communities are wanting to build. We have a different approach. We want information from the community to determine what it is that we're going to be putting on the ground. Maybe they want home ownership or home repair, or do they want public housing units? That's what that study determines. If we're going to be going in and we're going to be building a bunch of market units and putting them in the communities, is that community going to actually be able to afford those units, looking at the cost of living, as well, and really trying to structure how we're going to program deliver through the Northwest Territories? Those plans really identify what is needed throughout the territory. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the answer from the Minister. We actually already have some documents that are current, that show what's required, such as the community survey which was done a year ago. It talks about the housing that's unaffordable, needs repair, not large enough for the people. I'm not getting my head around how much more information you need in order to make the investments that will produce more housing in the communities. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. When I went to Ottawa, I met with the Nunavut Minister for Housing, and he had a similar approach in looking at what is identified in the community and looking at what is feasible. These plans and these studies identify: are we going to be energy efficient going forward; the people in the community, are they going to be able afford the houses that we are putting on the ground; are we going to be able to afford the houses going on the ground; and what style do we need?
I know it seems like there were a lot of reports, but then, looking at what needs to be delivered, just for an example, right now, the Member for Nunakput expressed that they need duplexes, single units. The Housing Corporation has come forward, and we're putting in a multi-unit. That is something where the community plan would have identified what style of houses are to be in that community and what is more cost effective, if we were to build a triplex or else a duplex. I'm not too sure. Just for an example, that's what I would rely on those plans for. Looking at the feasibility and the amount of houses that are going to be put on the ground, if we could stretch the dollar that we have, and if we are to be instructed by the community to say, well, we want a nine-plex or, no, we want to become homeowners, then it changes up the dynamic of the community. We also look at the income and the amount of employment that is in that community.
I hope I answered your question, but I'm going to have Mr. Carpenter elaborate on it a little bit more. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Carpenter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just in terms of those specific studies, they're very valuable to us in that they help us plan, or where we're going to target our investments. For example, the seniors study, we looked at it, and there are a couple of major centres that stuck out for us. The Minister has given us direction that seniors are very important for the next four years for her, and two communities that stuck out for us are Yellowknife and Hay River. Those are two areas we're really going to look at, what can we do in terms of partnerships or projects over the next four years.
The needs survey, same thing, we're waiting for the final results to get the core need numbers, but the study that came out had a couple of items that stuck out there, too, which was affordability and adequacy. When that comes out, we have to take a hard look at our programming to make sure it remains responsive to those types of issues.
The other one I mentioned earlier is we look at our waiting list. When you see that the waiting list is dominated by singles, that really drives. We have to think about that, what can we do to address that, and things like that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Carpenter. Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. My understanding is that there are community housing plans underway now. Can the Minister tell us at what cost and when they will be completed? Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll revert the question over to Mr. Martin. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. For 2020-2021, the Housing Corporation has set aside $336,000 to support a community planner for the corporation, to support that activity in-house. Also, the balance of those dollars will be used to support engagement sessions with the various communities and associated promotion, advertising. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Martin. Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I didn't get an answer to when the 33 plans are going to be finished. If I could ask that again, please?
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.
Sorry, I didn't answer that question. The 33 plans are to be done by the end of my term. I am really pushing my department now to, honestly, get a majority of them done by April because I need to submit something to Ottawa. I need these numbers. I need the studies done so I could present something. I want to make my way down, and they're looking at their budget for November. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The sooner the better. What I hear is that people are caught in a more or less continuous cycle of study, which may be valuable to the Housing Corporation, but I'm going to say bluntly is of questionable value to the end user and simply because I don't hear that there is in fact more housing. In Yellowknife, in Hay River, we need more housing for seniors. I don't know of any projects that are going to be built this year for seniors. I'm just going to ask one more time to go back up to my original question which is: how do the studies actually relate to investing in housing? There just seems to be a disconnect here. We've got lots of information, but we don't have lots of end result for the people who are waiting for housing. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Minister responsible for NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to quickly elaborate because I wanted to look at the structures that we built that were determined by those plans going forward. We went and looked at the study for seniors, so then we put seniors' complexes in the majority of the districts, in the regions, looking at that and trying to have them age in place. Looking at multi-built units that need to be established and put on the ground, in Yellowknife, specifically, the majority of the units that are here are public housing, but then, we do lease off of the private in the city. I'm going to have Mr. Carpenter elaborate on this a little bit more. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Carpenter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I will speak to the item I should have elaborated on before, where we said that the seniors study said that projects in Yellowknife and Hay River stuck out the most. What that does for us is we're going to be reaching out now to different stakeholders in these two areas to see where we can help to get a project started up. Where I mentioned before that we've been successful with Canada to achieve a carve-off of the national co-investment fund, that's going to be a really good program to leverage federal dollars and perhaps some GNWT dollars to get projects like this off the ground. We will be reaching out, seeking partnerships or encouraging partnerships for those types of things. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Carpenter. Committee, we will take a short recess and resume in about ten minutes.
---SHORT RECESS
All right. We're going to call committee back to order, and we are going to continue on where we were, in NWT Housing Corporation, executive, operation expenditures summary. Questions. Member for Thebacha.
Madam Chair, I just want to ask a question. As you know, in the community of Fort Smith, or the constituency of Thebacha, the standard of living is the lowest in the Northwest Territories to live. We have a very aging population, and we have a lot of seniors in the community of Fort Smith, therefore I'm wondering why only Hay River and Yellowknife are included in that community planning policy that is being put together in these next couple of years. I would like to ensure that consideration for the community of Fort Smith is also in the planning. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I was under the impression that all 33 communities were going forward with the housing plans. I will have Jim elaborate on it a little bit more. Thank you. Sorry, I mean Mr. Martin. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, the Housing Corporation did undertake the seniors planning study. The Phase I of that study, the focus was on Yellowknife and Hay River. There were some subsequent reviews done, as well, more statistical-type studies, analysis, tabletop analysis, but it is recognized that there is further research that will need to be drawn upon for the other communities; but, at this stage, we have completed an in-department review of Yellowknife and Hay River. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Martin. Member for Thebacha.
Madam Chair, I'm not really satisfied with that answer. We have a lot of retirees and aging population and seniors in the community of Fort Smith, and I would like to make sure that the Housing Corporation would reconsider making sure that Fort Smith is part of that planning process, and they are included.
Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Minister responsible for the NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Madam Chair. To elaborate on the response, I'm going to have Mr. Carpenter respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Carpenter.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just in follow-up to what I said before about the programming such as the co-investment fund, we said we would reach out to organizations in Yellowknife and in Hay River, but it doesn't mean we're just locked in on those two communities. We will reach out to organizations in places like Fort Smith to not only promote the program but see what interest is there, as well, to participate in seniors projects. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Carpenter. Member for Thebacha.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I know that the waiting list for senior units in Fort Smith is a long one. Some seniors have to wait a long time to get into one of the units, and many of the seniors in Fort Smith would prefer to be in their own units. As I know, as I told you before, there is a long waiting list, and sometimes it takes up to two years or so before they get into a unit, so therefore I'm concerned about the availability of housing for seniors and our aging population in the community of Fort Smith.
