Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to let it be the first year that we do have to make sure that we are following through with the local emergency plans, with our local mayors and counsellors who have to make sure their plan is in place and to act upon it. This is a really serious matter and sickness that is coming, that there is no cure yet. Just a note for the education Minister, as well, to make sure that all the teachers who are travelling around to Mexico and all those nice, warm places, to make sure that the staff know that they should be self-checking. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you. I will take that as a comment. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I previously asked questions to the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs regarding a Yellowknife city charter. I was hoping that the Minister responsible could outline a process and provide that document to the City of Yellowknife on what a path forward for a Yellowknife city charter could look like.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I just want to elaborate quickly on the charter that the City of Yellowknife is proposing, that it is a new approach. We need to gather, and we need to identify what it is that the city is wanting to change within the Cities, Towns and Villages Act. Going forward, I just need to be more clear. I am open to having further discussions with the City of Yellowknife. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
One of my concerns regarding this is that there are no plans currently to bring the City, Towns and Villages Act forward during this Assembly. I know the department has a lot of work to do regarding the Property Assessment and Taxation Act, which ultimately ties into the city charter issue. My concern is that the municipalities have been asking for the Property Assessment and Taxation Act to be brought forward for over a decade, and the department has been very slow to do so. I don't want to be standing here in a decade, asking about a Yellowknife city charter. Would the Minister be willing to reach out to the City of Yellowknife and get them to provide what they would see as a process going forward for a Yellowknife city charter?
MACA is prepared to receive information for city and the charter proposed. We are open to be meeting with them and discuss concepts. We will also of course need to gather other relevant information. I really want to see why the city would want to change their status and adapt the charters act. It is available in other jurisdictions, but it does not exist in the Northwest Territories. Going forward, yes, I am available to be meeting with the City of Yellowknife.
I will convey that information to the city, and I look forward to asking about those discussions. I can tell you the reason that the City of Yellowknife has asked for this is because they find dealing with the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs extremely frustrating. I am happy to finally see the Property Assessment and Taxation Act coming forward. There is a number of unique things that we can do in Yellowknife, whether it be municipal bonds, local services, vacancy taxes, that simply just would not make sense in the smaller communities and may not even make sense in the other tax-based communities. So, during the development of the Property Assessment and Taxation Act, is the Minister willing to reach out to the City of Yellowknife and hear some of their concerns around property assessment and the unique needs of the City of Yellowknife?
Yes, I will be wanting to hear and elaborate a little bit more on the approach that the City of Yellowknife is taking. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My question today is for the Minister of Health and Social Services in regard to repatriating Northwest Territories residents with disabilities living in southern residential placements:
How many people are living in southern residential placements?
What is the total cost the Government of the Northwest Territories is spending to support Northwest Territories residents with disabilities living in southern residential placements?
What region-specific support services would be required to support people with disabilities to live in their home communities?
What would a phased repatriation plan look like to support people with disabilities living in their home communities?
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following two documents: "Follow-up Letter for Oral Question 31-19(2), Response to Progress of Government;" and "Follow-up Letter for Oral Question 92-19(2), Fort Providence Dental Care Services." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Government House Leader. Tabling of documents. Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the report "What we heard: Sexual Assault Investigations Stakeholder Engagement Session, June 11-12, 2019." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife Centre. Tabling of documents. Item 15, notices of motion. Item 16, motions. Member for Thebacha.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. WHEREAS Members of this and previous Assemblies have expressed numerous concerns about the Stanton Territorial Renewal Project and the impacts it may have on the long-term fiscal well-being of the Government of the Northwest Territories and the people it serves;
AND WHEREAS, at a cost of $750 million over 34 years, the Stanton Territorial Hospital Renewal Project is reportedly the largest capital project ever undertaken by the Government of the Northwest Territories;
AND WHEREAS the Government of the Northwest Territories reportedly overlooked to include in the project costs a grant-in-lieu of property tax payment to the City of Yellowknife, valued at $4.5 million annually, pushing the total project cost to an estimated $900 million;
AND WHEREAS the Stanton Territorial Hospital Renewal Project has been described as a public/private partnership between the Government of the Northwest Territories and the Boreal Health Partnership;
AND WHEREAS the fundamental features of this partnership, including the long-term liabilities and obligations of the Government of the Northwest Territories, are included in a project agreement that was executed in the final days of the 17th Legislative Assembly;
AND WHEREAS there have been, and remain, numerous deficiencies with the Stanton Territorial Hospital Renewal Project that may affect the long-term operation and costs of the project;
NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the honourable Member for Frame Lake, that the Legislative Assembly requests the Office of the Auditor General of Canada to undertake a special audit of the Stanton Territorial Hospital Renewal Project, and report thereon to the Legislative Assembly;
AND FURTHER, that this special audit investigate the actual project costs and long-term financial implications of the partnership arrangement, compliance with the Financial Administration Act and the financial policies of the Government of the Northwest Territories, value for money considerations, appropriation authority, reporting, and adherence to standard public procurement practices and processes;
AND FURTHERMORE, that the Auditor General investigate and consider any other factors that, in their opinion, is relevant;
AND FURTHERMORE, that all employees and officials, respecting the broad powers of investigation granted to the Auditor General under the Auditor General Act and confirmed under the Northwest Territories Act, actively cooperate with the Auditor General in providing all appropriate documents, papers, and information requested by the Office of the Auditor General;
AND FURTHERMORE, that the Government inform the Boreal Health Partnership and all relevant contractors of the nature and purpose of the special audit;
AND FURTHERMORE, that the Office of the Auditor General is requested to complete the special audit as soon as practicable and provide a report to the Legislative Assembly;
AND FURTHERMORE, that the Speaker formally transmit this motion and the content of our proceedings in relation to this motion to the Office of the Auditor General of Canada for their consideration.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member for Thebacha. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Thebacha.
Mr. Speaker, my motion today on the P3 Stanton Renewal Project is about ensuring that public funds are being used for the right reasons. In speaking to this motion, I would like to reiterate my previous statement on the Stanton P3 project, which I spoke about a couple of weeks ago in a Member's statement.
Following the public technical briefing on the new Stanton Hospital, which took place on February 11, 2020, officials within the Departments of Health and Social Services and Infrastructure confirmed a series of pervading issues that have been plaguing the new building since it opened in May of 2019.
Mr. Speaker, for clarification, the initial amount designated for the new hospital was $350 million as of October 1, 2015, which was one month before the 2015 territorial election. This project over a 34-year period, which includes the old Stanton Legacy building, will now cost $750 million-plus. The operating and maintenance contract is also included in this P3. Boreal Health Partnership and Dexterra are the main proponents in this agreement. According to officials of the Departments of Health and Social Services and Infrastructure, this agreement/contract is being defended as a good agreement despite it putting our future governance and the people of the NWT in a crucial financial deficit because of a very dysfunctional agreement, decisions and final signoffs being done improperly on behalf of the people of the NWT. However, as an MLA who is concerned about P3s, I think the figure that the Department of Finance provided is neither concrete nor precise and it will cost much more than that. As all MLAs have experienced, we have had a couple of supplementaries in this 19th Assembly already.
Moreover, Mr. Speaker, the terms and conditions of the Stanton project are not clear, either. Once again, not enough attention was paid to the details of this agreement. When detail is not properly taken into account and politicians sign off on these types of agreements, these projects can and will have a major impact, both on the people of the NWT as well as the future of our government. This is exactly what happened with the P3 agreement of the new Stanton hospital along with the legacy building of the old Stanton hospital.
Mr. Speaker, accountability and transparency are extremely important when dealing with public money. The money that is being used belongs with the people of the NWT. Most of the P3s are contracted with southern companies, and the money flows south with little benefit to the NWT. P3s can be a positive way of doing business if we're dealing with northern companies or Indigenous groups and the detailed agreements are firm, signed off properly, and all monies stay in the North. Mr. Speaker, an objective overview by the Auditor General's office of this P3 project will be appreciated by the people of the NWT and the Ordinary MLAs of this 19th Assembly.
In closing, Mr. Speaker, public-private partnerships are an option if the Government of Northwest Territories management team follows the rules, options were looked at properly, and it understands that the money that is being spent belongs to people of the Northwest Territories. Accountability and transparency of public monies is paramount. Managing public monies is a privilege, not a right. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member for Thebacha. To the motion. Member for Frame Lake.
Merci, Monsieur le President. The Stanton Territorial Hospital is in my riding of Frame Lake, and I did second the motion. This motion, though, is modelled after a similar motion that called for the Auditor General to carry out a special audit of the Deh Cho Bridge. That is the format that this generally reflects, that previous work.
I raised concerns around the Stanton Territorial Hospital, particularly the P3 arrangement, in the last Assembly. I want to make it clear, though, that there has been full financial recording under generally accepted accounting principles of the day in the public accounts of the Northwest Territories, so there is no question about the public reporting of the financing of this arrangement. It's clear, it's transparent, it's passed through the Auditor General, but this audit is really to focus on matters around the actual project costs versus the predicted costs, long-term financial implications, compliance with the Financial Administration Acts and financial policies. It's more of a performance audit, and I certainly support that.
We've heard concerns, as well, around the performance of the building and the contractors. We had a special briefing earlier this year around those matters, and I've heard from members of the public with concerns about those issues. I also want to make it clear that there is no obligation on the part of the Office of the Auditor General to actually carry out the audit. This is a request. The Auditor General will decide, ultimately, whether to carry out this audit. The Auditor General could decide to carry out an audit even in the absence of this motion, but this is clearly a request that I think a number of Regular MLAs are going to support. I think it's really important that we do a lessons-learned, retrospective look at that, of the largest project ever for the Northwest Territories. That's what this motion is really about.
This government is committed to further P3 projects, whether it's the Tlicho all-season road, don't know what the financial arrangements for the proposed Slave Geological Province road are going to be, but I think there are a lot of lessons that we need to learn from the Stanton Territorial Hospital. Mr. Speaker, I'll be voting in support of this motion. I request a recorded vote. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. To the motion. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Accountability and transparency in all public dealings, in all public accounting, is fundamental. It's critical. I share the Member's view entirely on that. This particular project has gone through quite tremendous financial reporting. I acknowledge the comments of the Member just now, and I appreciate the faith that's being placed in the Department of Finance and in all the GNWT to always do our best to be transparent and accountable. In addition to the lengthy briefing that was done, I just wanted to make a few comments, Mr. Speaker, with respect to some of that financial accounting and reporting that has gone on to date on this particular project.
Mr. Speaker, back in 2016 when preparing the public accounts, the decision was made to report the then-arrangements as being a public-private partnership. By doing so, it would then trigger an involvement of the Auditor General's office, and, indeed, ultimately the Auditor General's office agreed that that was the prudent course of action and in fact at that time also agreed with the GNWT costing of this project. Since that time, Mr. Speaker, for the years ending 2016, 2017, 2018, every year, the accumulated costs as the project was going on were being reported, and they were being audited, and they were being found every year by the Auditor General's office as being accurate. When the final project costs rolled in, they had been again reported in the March 2019 public accounts, which were tabled in this House in December and which will be reviewed by standing committee in April of this year. That briefing and that review, Mr. Speaker, is done with the Comptroller General's office, the Auditor General's office, and standing committee. It's done confidentially, and it's done with fulsomeness. I'm confident that it will have a very thorough review and that many questions will be asked, as they should be, and they'll be answered. To date, the Auditor General's office has been involved and been providing only positive reviews of all the financial aspects of the project. Speaking more specifically to that, this was a $350-million capital project. It was roughly $1,000 over its budget estimate. That is a very positive return in terms of the capital costing of the project.
Mr. Speaker, I acknowledge, of course, that there has been much discussion in this House around the functioning of the building. That said, there has been action taken immediately by the GNWT to ensure that we have remained active and involved on the unfolding of the project, on the unfolding of the hospital as it has opened. We have already addressed more than once here the work that's been done on a GNWT level, at a senior management level, to be engaged, to take action, to ensure that the partners in the project are taking responsible action and, if necessary, to take action under the contract in order to have the service delivered as was provided for. It is a complex contract, but it is actively being monitored, Mr. Speaker.
My one last note, as I've spoken to before, is that property taxes were not considered as part of the capital cost. Property tax is considered part of the operations of any building, and, in the course of a building that is owned by the GNWT, those property taxes are not in fact property taxes; they're paid as a grant. That is something that is separate and apart from the capital cost or from the operating costs that's been factored into the contract here, and it's something that, at this point, has been factored into MACA's budget and will continue to be going forward. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Minister. To the motion. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Ultimately, I will be supporting this motion. I just wanted to speak to a few things. I think we have to limit expectations of what the role of the Auditor General is. The Auditor General does not make political decisions. They ultimately review financials, and they have been involved with this project extensively and may review compliance with policies. I think there is a larger question here, and it's ultimately a political one, and it's one we're stuck with. If I were in charge back when this decision was being made, I would not have built this hospital, Mr. Speaker. I would have hired nurses and doctors instead because people heal the sick, not buildings. Here we stand in this Assembly, and the hospital is constructed. We're left with it, Mr. Speaker. There is not much to be done about that.
Secondly, to the process of the Auditor General, they just completed the education audit. I believe their other one is starting or currently ongoing. Usually, those audits take about 18 months. If they choose to do this, and they have complete control over what they audit, I expect it to be a number of years, Mr. Speaker. I question what we're really going to get out of this in a couple of years, when we receive this audit. Ultimately, like I said, I wouldn't have built the hospital, but I have been convinced that this project probably actually came in on budget. In fact, I think there are some concerns with Dexterra that they are not able to make a profit because they didn't really consider the realities of getting northern labour. I guess the benefit of this audit to me, Mr. Speaker, is that we have a number of very large P3 infrastructure projects that are on the books or that are really coming forward, and the more information we can get regarding P3s, the better. I have a number of concerns with P3s, whether it be the requirements to not have enough northern labour; I think, on the hospital, we saw too many southern contractors. I also question some of the use of non-unionized labour in P3s, but those are political decisions, Mr. Speaker, and they are political decisions we in this House must decide. Ultimately, they are not the decisions of the Auditor General, and the Auditor General is not a political body. They can't provide us with direction on those questions.
So I look forward to continuing having these conversations. I hope, in time, if we do get this audit, that it provides more information, but ultimately we have to have some serious conversations about infrastructure such as hospitals when we could be hiring staff and the future of P3 projects, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. To the motion.
Question.
The Member for Thebacha, the Member for Nunakput, the Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh, the Member for Frame Lake, the Member for Kam Lake, the Member for Yellowknife North, the Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes, the Member for Yellowknife Centre, the Member for Hay River South.
All those abstaining, please rise. Sorry, all those opposed, please rise.
The Member for Nahendeh, the Member for Hay River North, the Member for Yellowknife South, the Member for Sahtu.
All those abstaining, please rise. The results of the recorded vote: nine in favour; four opposed; zero abstentions. The motion is carried.
---Carried
I call Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of committee? Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Marsi cho, Madam Chair. Committee wishes to consider Tabled Document 30-19(2), 2020-2021 Main Estimates, for the NWT Housing Corporation. Marsi.
Does the committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. We will have a short recess.
---SHORT RECESS
I now call committee back to order. Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 30-19(2), Main Estimates 2020-2021. We are under the NWT Housing Corporation. Does the Minister responsible for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation have any opening remarks?
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am here to present the 2020-2021 Main Estimates for the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. Overall, the corporation's estimates propose an increase of $5.3 million or 5.1 percent over the 2019-2020 Main Estimates. These estimates support our fiscal objectives to prioritize responsibilities and strategic spending while matching the modest expected revenue growth over the coming year.
The proposed estimates include approximately $4.2 million of additional spending that will support a range of priority investments to promote housing partnerships, home ownership opportunities, and the preservation of the corporation's existing public housing stock. These strategic investments include additional funding for the multi-year community housing plans initiative, increases to the community housing support initiative program, the new home program, the Securing Assistance for Emergency program, the seniors aging in place program and the fuel tank replacement program.
In addition, the corporation is allocating additional funding to support a range of priority preservation investments for the corporation's existing public housing stock, including additional repairs funding for local housing organizations, funding for the demolition of surplus units, and addressing the continued decline in Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation funding for social program operations.
Also included in the 2020-2021 Main Estimates is an additional $1.4 million of incremental forced growth funding for collective bargaining increases, supporting both the corporation and the local housing organizations. These estimates continue to support the priorities of the 19th Legislative Assembly by:
fostering strategic partnerships, including those with the federal and Indigenous governments, to deliver additional affordable housing for our residents, especially seniors and vulnerable persons;
investing in energy-efficient solutions for both new construction and repairs;
delivering increasing opportunities for home ownership; and
expanding educational resources and supports for homeowners.
That concludes my opening remarks. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Do you wish to bring any witnesses into the House?
Yes, I do.
Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Minister, could you please introduce your witnesses for the record.
