Thank you, Minister. Dr. Dragon.
Thank you, Madam Chair. In looking at all three of these projects in terms of our due diligence and looking at what opportunities we have, a number of them, as we go through them, look at going through the environmental assessment process right now, developing developer assessment reports. We're really also looking at our Indigenous partners and seeing the feedback because, in these, I'll just go through a couple of them real quickly. The Mackenzie Valley highway, we're probably taking about the next four years to go through that process. If we look at the Slave Geological Province Corridor, right now, the money that we have allotted for that project is going to be, probably, in the next six years in terms of going through an environmental assessment and looking at all the regulatory authorizations. Then, finally, in terms of looking at Taltson, we have $18 million going through that project, and we're looking at design feasibility and environmental assessment. All three of the projects are in the early stages. It's very, very critical that we have Indigenous engagement in all three of those, and I think the long-term plan is to try to identify business cases for all three that would then be able to come to the committee to be able to have a discussion on which one makes sense to go forward, but we're a few years away from that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Dr. Dragon. Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Yes, thank you for that information. It doesn't answer my question. My question was that the premise was for funding infrastructure is that there has to be a surplus in the budget; and the surplus is forecasted to go down to a double double at Tim Hortons at 2023, so how is the government going to continue to pay its share of these three projects in the life of this Assembly? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Those are good questions and, obviously, something that we're going to have to be dealing with over the next while. I do want to say that some of the federal funding that's coming forward now, they are, as I mentioned before, looking to be more flexible. We are looking to get 100 percent dollars for projects going forward so, perhaps, that may be a route we can go with the three major infrastructure projects. Those would be options that we would be looking to discuss with the federal government. The conversation I'm having with the federal government is that, not only were we already in a huge infrastructure deficit prior to COVID, we were in a bad economic situation, and it's just kicked us right off the cliff with COVID. One of the conversations we're having is: how do we keep Northerners working? What Northerners can do, is they can do these projects, and they can build roads, and they can bite away at these types of projects, and that's part of our structure going forward. Yes, it will play into making sure that Northerners are doing those projects. When economies are bad, governments build infrastructure, so we will see better supports, and we already are seeing better supports from the federal government on our infrastructure projects and in that conversation. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Minister's comments are only relevant if the contracting is going to the North, and the Tlicho All-Season Road tells us how that can really not work in our favour. My follow-up question is: when does the Minister expect to reach an agreement with the government for the 100-percent funding for northern infrastructure? Is this something that's going to happen in the life of this Assembly, in the life of this fiscal year? What's the timing on that? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Well, I think, as we all sit here, the future is fairly uncertain. I don't have a time frame, and I won't profess to say something just to answer a question. In a new world when it comes to our funding formulas, we already have seen flexibility and changes within federal pots of funding that are already available. We are going to continue, all of us, to go to our FPTs and have these conversations with the federal government. I can't give you a time frame, but I'd be surprised if anyone can tell you what's going to be happening anywhere in the world in a year. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife Centre.
Yes, I'll just finish with a comment. This is really a hopes and prayers section of the budget. We hope that we will be able to advance these three projects to the business case that there will be northern contracting, there will be Indigenous partnerships. I feel like we don't have anything that is super sturdy, here. We just have a lot of hopes and prayers. For something that is so vital to our economy, I would like to see a more proactive or, at least, show me that it's a proactive approach to obtaining more infrastructure money from the federal government. I don't see that now. I hear it's being discussed, but I don't hear there's any deadline. We hope and pray the federal government will come up with 100 percent funding for infrastructure. I mean, that would be wonderful, wouldn't it, but it's not something we that we can count on. I think that we have to deal with what we've got, and maybe that means going back to the priorities and looking again at the three large infrastructure projects and sorting out how we can prioritize those. Thank you. I have nothing further.
Thank you. I will take that as a comment, so I am just going to leave it at that. I am going to move on to the Member for Thebacha.
Madam Chair, some of the comments that were just made are enlightening. One hundred percent for projects, it's possible. Us underestimating the Indigenous peoples is not okay because I know that you've got to engage the Indigenous people. There are people that the claims have been settled, and they are, in part, in that partnership. No matter which project it would be, I firmly believe that Indigenous people have come a long way. If you want to do amazing things, you can do amazing things. It was very positive, what the Minister had just said, Madam Chair. I never give up. As a leader, you have to always think out-of-the-box, and you can do anything you want if you put your mind to it. Amazing things could happened. I'm very optimistic when it comes to business.
I also want to comment on a couple of other things. Design-build, P3s, or any of those, you have to look at the project and the terms of reference. Signing on the bottom line has got to make sure that you have your Is dotted and your Ts crossed. I just want to make sure that people understand that design-build is not a bad thing. There are Indigenous people who could actually put that together.
I do not underestimate anyone in the Northwest Territories because, if you put your mind to something, you get those kind of people who work for you. You still are a winner in the long run because you are in charge. Indigenous people, I am talking about and also whether it be local content or local contractors here in Yellowknife with engineering and architectural acumen. We have to look at those. Because I strongly feel that some of the design-builds, when you do turnkey, you have everything inside. That didn't happen over here at the Stanton. We should have had an MRI. We should have had all these other things. That didn't happen. Lessons learned.
You know what? You learn from some kind of times when things go wrong. You try to learn from them. Not everything goes right in contract negotiation or mediation or any of these things, but you have to have an open mind. I said that in my speech this afternoon. Not everything fits the mould. Dr. Dragon touched on it briefly. I would like to keep an open mind. I am not going to say design-build is no good. I am not going to say P3 is no good because I am open for options. We have to build an economy here. If we are going to start all this stuff of "you can't do this" and "you can't do that," we are closing all the doors again. You have the clientele in the North. You just have to make sure that it fits the mould.
I don't want to underestimate any of our Aboriginal groups because there are a lot of really incredible, amazing people who I sat with over the years and very business-minded. We are always able to give positive input to various things. Something that you wouldn't see, they see. They see things a little bit differently sometimes, but that doesn't mean they don't have the ability to move forward. I think that we have to encourage that. I am not going to ask any questions because I just want to make sure, those were encouraging statements that were just made, Madam Chair. I am the type of person who is all about the economy. I have always been pro-development to ensure that the Northwest Territories could pay for their own someday. I don't think I will see it in my time, but I hope that our future generations are able to grasp that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Since there are no questions in there for the Minister, I will move on to Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I just wanted to follow up on some of the comments made by my colleague from Yellowknife Centre. I think I heard the deputy minister say that the Mackenzie Valley Highway is going to take another four years in environmental assessment before shovels can hit the ground again. That project has been in environmental assessment since 2013. 2013! Another four years, that means it will have been in environmental assessment for 11 years. Why is it in environmental assessment for 11 years? Because GNWT submitted a project that was ill-defined and has had to be redefined about five or six times. It's gobbling up an enormous amount of money and regulatory time. The thing was submitted prematurely. This is not the way to do big infrastructure projects.
Then I hear that the Slave Geological Province Road, from the deputy minister, is going to take six years through the environmental assessment. I think that is terribly optimistic. Again, we don't have any money to build it. I am astounded that we continue to chase these kinds of things without having solid projects that are shovel-ready. You shouldn't be taking something to environmental assessment unless you have the money to do it, quite frankly.
I don't know how you are going to convince the federal government to give 100 percent dollars for this stuff when it's still going to take years to get through EA, and so on. I just can't see how this is going to work. Can someone explain to me 11 years in EA for the Mackenzie Valley Highway? Why is it taking so long, and why do we keep changing the project? It's because we don't have money. We don't have a well-defined project. I would like to start with that. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Actually, many of these projects are actually lots of different, smaller projects together. For example, Mackenzie Valley Highway, we have already done the Canyon Creek portion of that highway. We will be looking to do Prohibition Creek next. We are breaking away bite-sized pieces of those overall, large projects. When you get to the comments of shovel-ready, well, there are actually, in fact, several shovel-ready small projects that go along or work for consultants or work for contractors, things like that that are the drivers in keeping a lot of people in our economy right now working. I have got a lot of interest in people wanting to know when the Prohibition Creek is coming out. No, Mackenzie Valley is not waiting another four years before we start work on it. We are working on it now. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Look, I have been up to Canyon Creek. I have seen the road. It was parcelled in a way that allowed the community to take better advantage of it, but that is not the project that was submitted back in 2013 to the Mackenzie Valley Environmental Impact Review Board. I just want to caution the Minister to make sure that, if you are going to submit something to environmental assessment, you better have it scoped out properly and you better have the money to do it. Otherwise, it's wasting time and it's wasting money.
If I had to pick one of the three big projects, I would probably pick Mackenzie Valley Highway. I think there is at least a prospect of doing that in a way that will benefit smaller communities and lead to some communities rather than the wilderness, perhaps. I think it raises unrealistic expectations. I never agreed to have the three infrastructure projects in the priority list from the Regular MLAs in the first place. I think it's just setting us up for failure by continuing to try to say that those three projects are going to get done or that they even can get started in the lifetime of this Assembly.
The kinds of projects I want to see are government focus on are things like housing, community infrastructure, environmental remediation. I think you have some prospect of actually attracting federal investment in those things over projects like the Slave Geological Province Road or even Taltson. Taltson, we don't have a market. We don't have buyers. There is not a feasibility study. There is no business case for it yet. In any event, I agree completely with my colleague from Yellowknife Centre that we should be revisiting the priorities, the big infrastructure projects, and focusing on one. Trying to say to the federal government we want to do all three at the same time, bad messaging.
If there is one other project that I think we should be advancing, that is connecting all the communities to high-speed Internet. We have seen the impacts of that as a result of COVID. We can't teach kids. Businesses can't access our services. We can't even hold meetings part of the time, because Members can't even get on at the same time. We have to fix that, and we need to fix that now. That should be the priority in terms of big infrastructure projects. I want to ask the Infrastructure Minister what she is doing to help make sure that all of our communities are connected to high-speed Internet and why that is not the priority. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. As most people are aware, a government does multiple things at a time. Supporting and advocating for one project does not mean that we are not doing others. I would completely agree. COVID has highlighted the lack of infrastructure and the have and have-nots of our territory. I 100 percent agree with that. However, Internet is actually in the Department of Finance; it's not my department. However, I do continue to work with my colleague on that, because there is a bit of an overlap in that area.
I would argue back, for your comments regarding the project, I mean, we have large portions of the Mackenzie Valley Highway already completed. The environmental assessment is for the bridge on the Mount Gaudet access road. These have created a lot of employment. We have had capacity-building projects as part of this. Canyon Creek was a great example of that. We are going to continue to go forward and do small portions of projects that have an overall larger overarching theme. As a government, we need to create the infrastructure that we are lacking, and we have to start somewhere. The best time to have started these roads would have been 20 years ago, but we have to start at some point, and we can't leave our communities stranded.
We all sat around, these 19 people, and we took a vote. It's well-noted that those three projects were not ones that you wanted included in that. However, as everybody likes to say, it's consensus. We had a vote, and they were included. I am sure that the Premier is taking note of your concerns around the mandate and priorities and will take that into account. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. I will move on to the Member for Deh Cho.
Mahsi, Madam Chair. I see from the corporate management activity description that this is kind of like a high-level division within Infrastructure. I can imagine that there is probably quite a bit of very experienced people in those positions. I note from the active positions for that division that there are 37 in headquarters. I am wondering how many of those are P1 Indigenous in management in that division. I'll ask that first question. Mahsi.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I do not have the breakdown of Indigenous, but I do believe that Dr. Dragon does, so I will pass that over to him. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Dr. Dragon.
Thank you, Madam Chair. In terms of senior managers in the department, 61.5 percent of the senior managers are identified under the GNWT's Affirmative Action Policy. In addition to those managers, when we look at our complement of senior staff, very much within our regional superintendents right across the regions, we have strong Indigenous Aboriginals in those positions. Overall, if you look at the Department of Infrastructure, we're very much in that 45- to 46-percent range of Indigenous Aboriginal right across the department. I think we'll be getting to that later on in terms of the positions. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Dr. Dragon. Member for Deh Cho.
My question was specifically to the corporate management, the active positions on page 233, the 37 that are listed there. I am aware that the other positions you are noting are further ahead. I am not getting there yet; I'm just looking at these positions here, just to see how many are P1 Indigenous people you have in there, and if there are any succession planning or apprenticeship programs, or to bring in people into that corporate management division. Mahsi.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I will commit to getting back to the Member on the number of percentage there if Dr. Dragon can't find it in the next two minutes, or two seconds, even. I do commit that this is generally a conversation that I am having with the department. It has been a bigger conversation that I have had in my career, is the lack of technical Northerners and Indigenous people in these positions. It is a discussion that Dr. Dragon and I had very early on. Another piece of that, which is not what you're asking, has also been about women. I recognize that the department is not doing well from a female standpoint, and it's something that I clearly wanted to change. I am committed that I am having those conversations.
I do believe that Dr. Dragon has found the number, so I am going to pass it over to him. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Dr. Dragon.
Thank you, Madam Chair. In terms of our senior managers, which consists of those 26 positions, we have myself, the deputy minister; we have three assistant deputy ministers; 16 directors; and five regional superintendents. Of the employees who make up that group, three are Indigenous Aboriginal, four are Indigenous non-Aboriginal, and eight are women. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Deh Cho.
Mahsi cho. Thank you for all those numbers. Those ones you're referencing from the 37, I wonder: they're not just administration positions, are they? The three you mentioned?
Thank you, Member. Dr. Dragon.
Thank you, Madam Chair. No, they consist of positions that we have in the department that are within the corporate management entity, but those are administrative assistants, some for those assistant deputy ministers and myself, a senior advisor. We also have the capital planner who is in with that group, as well, but the majority of that unit is our senior management team. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Dr. Dragon. Member for Deh Cho.
We always have post-secondary students who are looking for work and stuff. It's good to bring them into the folds and job-shadow people, even for the summer, so it gets their interest up. I am wondering if you can provide me a breakdown just to show me how many are actual Dene people in your positions there. Mahsi.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
I'll head that back to Dr. Dragon, as well. Thank you.
Thank you. Dr. Dragon.
The head of the department is a Dene person. Looking at the opportunity within Infrastructure, again, I think it has a very strong representation of Indigenous Aboriginal people.
The one thing that I wanted to mentioned is that, in the department, we have been taking succession planning very seriously. In one situation, we provide transfer assignments. In the department, we have currently 48 developmental opportunities. Those people are going to other departments to get experience. In terms of those 48, 11 are Indigenous Aboriginal employees; nine are Indigenous non-Aboriginal employees. We also participate in the GNWT leadership program. Based on that, we have 14 participants in that. Five are Indigenous Aboriginal; three are Indigenous non-Aboriginal. We also have two senior managers, one who is Indigenous non-Aboriginal, who are a part of that development program. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Dr. Dragon. Member for Deh Cho.
You mentioned the GNWT leadership program. I am wondering what program you're mentioning there. It's not the associate directorship program? Can you elaborate? Mahsi.
Thank you, Member. Dr. Dragon.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The GNWT leadership program is actually divided into three groups. We have emerging leaders. These are who we would consider just about getting into the management area, wanting to become a manager of people, providing them opportunities, as well as managers who have been in there who now want to move up into the director level. The third category is actually the executive leadership stream, and that is where we as a government look at leaders who we have in the organizations, who we feel could use other developmental opportunities in other departments to increase their competencies and move them to that potentially ADM or deputy role. Thank you, Madam Chair
Thank you, Dr. Dragon. Member for Deh Cho.
Yes, maybe. Something about that emerging leaders program, my work with Infrastructure as a project officer, I did take the first level of that training, emerging managers program. My manager at the time allowed me to go, but that is as far as it got. The other two levels were off-limits to me. So it's mostly geared for people who are in actual management positions, to enhance their roles, and stopped a person like me. I am a prime example. I can tell you I applied for a manager position. I was not even considered for an interview or any transition, so there are problems within the departments, no matter how well you figure you have it structured. In succession planning, there are always problems. 2020, brighter future, I have been there for over 10 years and was never, ever advanced, so there are problems with succession planning. Like we say, you live within the Indigenous territory. We want to see more of our people advancing. In order to get that, you have to open these doors for them. Those are the only comments I would like to make at this point. Mahsi.
