Debates of May 28, 2020 (day 23)

Date
May
28
2020
Session
19th Assembly, 2nd Session
Day
23
Members Present
Hon. Frederick Blake, Mr. Bonnetrouge, Hon. Paulie Chinna, Ms. Cleveland, Hon. Caroline Cochrane, Ms. Green, Mr. Jacobson, Mr. Johnson, Mr. Lafferty, Ms. Martselos, Hon. Katrina Nokleby, Mr. Norn, Mr. O'Reilly, Ms. Semmler, Hon. R.J. Simpson, Mr. Rocky Simpson, Hon. Diane Thom, Hon. Shane Thompson, Hon. Caroline Wawzonek
Topics
Statements

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When I made that statement, I was definitely talking about a global situation. That is what I had heard, that, globally, we would be seeing small business fail. Ultimately, my goal is to not have any Northwest Territories businesses fail through COVID-19, but of course, that is going to be a challenge as we are all aware. My role for small business is to be an advocate. I have been doing so. I know there has been conversation around: federal government is doing things and the GNWT is not. I would like for people to be aware that the way that the federal government knows what the GNWT or what the Northwest Territories residents need is through the lobbying efforts of myself and my colleagues here with them at our federal tables as well as our one-on-one meetings that we do have.

My role is to be the voice of small business. I do understand that small business is feeling not heard at the moment. However, we have introduced supports, and we quickly introduced the BDIC loan. It was actually rolled out on March 20th. The border closed March 21st. By March 25th, applications had ended and money was starting to flow, or it at least being assessed. I do not have the exact date of when payments would have started. I know there is concern that they were loans and not free money. However, in order to get that liquidity out fast to people, we wanted to be able to make the requirements less. There would have been a lot more requirements around getting relief funding out by just handing it out as a grant. We wanted to ensure people could access money quickly. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you to the Minister for that. I hear the Minister say she thinks she is done all she can, but small business mostly doesn't agree. I want to ask you specifically about BDIC. BDIC has a surplus of $30 million. Small businesses told me very clearly that they need grants, that in a situation where they are closed for good or their revenue has gone down by 90 percent, they are not interested in taking on more debt. My question for the Minister is: why didn't the Minister offer grants from BDIC to qualified businesses rather than loans?

I don't believe I said that I have done everything I can do. I will say, though, that I am doing the best that I can to my ability. I have several areas of business and industry where I need to advocate for everyone. I am only one person, and I do acknowledge that there are things that we could be doing better. I believe I already answered the question as to why we went with loans instead of grants with the BDIC. However, I do commit to coming back to the Member with a more fulsome answer on that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I appreciate the Minister's commitment to come back with a fulsome response. That is helpful. My next question is about the business advisory council. The answer to my colleague's questions yesterday indicated that this is a secret committee which would have the final say on whether to reveal their membership and their terms of reference and whether, in fact, we are going to know anything about them. Can the Minister confirm that this government is giving this council discretion to be a secret committee?

What the question was yesterday was: would I make the terms of reference and the membership public? It was not whether I would share it with the Members on the other side of the room. No, this will not be a secret committee. The reason for my response yesterday was that I do not want to tie the hands of anyone prior to even having the first conversation with them. I am open to sharing that and posting that publicly. However, I will have that discussion with the council, and we will move forward as the council sees fit.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary, Member for Yellowknife Centre.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate that answer from the Minister. It's actually imperative that you shore up the credibility of this initiative by making as much of it public as you possibly can as soon as you can. My next and final question is what this council is supposed to accomplish and over what period of time. Thank you.

This council will be one of three that will be used by Cabinet and all of the government in order to be better informed by the stakeholders as was part of our 19th Legislative Assembly mandate and commitment priorities. We will be working towards making more evidence-based decisions by looking at or getting the feedback from the councils and their inputs, their recommendations. There will be reports provided that will be sent to the executive council and also shared as part of the co-committee that we will be having with the Regular MLAs and ourselves on economic recovery. The plan is to use the experts in the areas of their industries and sector in order to provide the better responses or the better relief packages or recovery packages that we can provide as a government. There is no way that we are going to be able to do it if we don't take feedback. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Question 250-19(2): Liquor Regulations

Marsi cho, Mr. Speaker. This is a question for the Minister of Finance. Just for some context here, on April 16th of this year, there were some liquor restrictions for sales that you announced. I have some figures in front of me that people are allowed to buy no more than six 375-millilitre containers of spirits or a maximum daily purchase up of $200 for individual customers. I have a two-prong question. My first part of that question is: how are these amounts determined? The second part of that is: what consultation was carried out with our Indigenous leaders prior to the announcement of these amounts? Marsi cho.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Liquor regulations are a regulation entirely within the department of finance and typically wouldn't necessarily be the subject of significant -- certainly not consultation as a legal concept but engagement, more generally. What we did do in this case, Mr. Speaker, is that certainly, at the same time that this was happening, there was a liquor-related motion by the Dene Nation that was made and a fairly lengthy response provided to them on April 7th. I was involved in an Indigenous governments' call that has been happening weekly now with the governments during the pandemic on April 9th to discuss the decision around closing of liquor stores. Then on April 15th, when the letter went out, that went out only after I would had that length conversation with the Indigenous governments and had received also correspondence from them. At that time, I sent a detailed letter to them to explain what was done. While that was the liquor changes that were made on April 16th that the Member makes mention of, they are regulations. They are changeable.

We got back on the phone and had another long conversation with the Indigenous governments on April 17th. On April 23rd, I had written to the Indigenous governments again, seeking their input on the changes to date and then some further changes that, again, a number of parties were requesting. On April 24th, I again went on to the Indigenous governments' call and had a lengthy discussion with them. At that point, set up a targeted call on April 28th, specifically with the Department of Finance to have a lengthy conversation with them around how the liquor regulations were working and whether further changes needed to be made. That is the one part of the question, Mr. Speaker. The second was on how the amounts were chosen. There was a real balance being struck between the desire to put some regulations that would create a restriction in place to try to target bootleggers, to try to target those who were buying mickeys, those who were buying large amounts and then taking them back to smaller communities, in particular, for resale, but also not to create a barrier that would hamper the health system by driving people to consume other types of alcohol. We looked at the kinds of consumption patterns that we could see, and we looked at who was being impacted and who was being targeted, and tried to target those who were seemingly purchasing for improper purposes, and not target the large proportion of individuals who can consume responsibly.

Marsi cho, Mr. Speaker, and Marsi cho to the Minister of Finance for those responses. I listened very carefully to those responses, and some of the feedback that I got from some of our Indigenous leaders in my riding was that these amounts were still way too high. If we get six of us going into a liquor store, I'm going to make an example of say, Hay River, and then we go into one of the surrounding communities, we could still have a party for a very, very long time. Do you know what I mean? These amounts are still very high.

I guess my second part of that question: have there been any specific requests from our Indigenous leaders to lower these amounts since then? Marsi cho.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There have been requests around liquor for the last two months to impose complete bans, complete restrictions, to open it up, to make it available for sale from taxi cabs. I have had no end of requests and varying requests across the board. I simply can't accommodate every request because they are at opposites, one with another. I acknowledge that not every Indigenous leader's request to impose a complete ban has been followed. Obviously, that's not what we've done. Some of the Indigenous leaders who we spoke to were saying, "Please, just keep it as a simple restriction." There's not a simple solution to this, Mr. Speaker. I acknowledge that. I'm not going to make everybody happy with this one. We did our best to try to strike a balance between looking at the health system, looking at what we need to do to maintain the health system, trying to support some of the small businesses who were asking for changes to the Liquor Act, at the same time. As I've said on all of these calls, Mr. Speaker, the Liquor Act and the liquor regulations are not going to be where we address the fundamental problem of alcohol abuse in the territory. It's a crisis. It is absolutely a crisis, and it needs to be addressed in a much bigger way. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you for that response. Just listening, I want to thank you for staying engaged because I think that's a proper way to categorize that instead of consulting. I understand the need to keep businesses afloat, and it's so important because, like I've said, everybody's feeling the pinch during this crisis. On May 8th, I guess I mentioned, the class A and the class B licensed establishments are allowed to sell beer and alcohol with their food. I guess my final question is, what consultations were made with our local Indigenous governments before this was implemented?

I apologize. I should have been briefer in my original answer. I happened to have a chronology of the efforts we made because it's not the first concern that's been raised to me about what I've done to engage and the time we spent speaking to not only Indigenous governments but also our community governments and others. We did write out, seeking input. We also had two further conversations about this, and it was actually as a result of those conversations and of the input that we received that, in fact, we did not allow taxis to be involved in the sale and distribution of alcohol and that, if a licensed establishment now is going to include alcohol sales with their takeout, it has to be through their own delivery service; it cannot use the taxi cab. So we did remove that, and we also removed the sale of cannabis, which was also one of the proposals. Again, while it's not answering what everybody wanted, it certainly did make an effort, I believe, to be responsive to some of the requests that were being made.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Hay River South.

Question 251-19(2): Border Security

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I have questions for the Minister of Health and Social Services. Just for clarity, what department has authority over border security and under what authority? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister of Health and Social Services.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The compliance and enforcement of the public health order falls under the Public Health Act and is the responsibility of the deputy chief public health officers and the compliance and enforcement public health officers who are appointed by the Chief Public Health Officer. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Can the Minister confirm how her department will address the ongoing issues surrounding border security such as documentation, essential workers exemptions, status cards, drug dealers, bootleggers, and tourists coming into the territory. They seem to be getting across the border.

In terms of documentation, we will continue to demand valid Northwest Territories documentation and provide them with information that I've outlined in the statement, and will follow-up if a complaint is made to protect Northwest Territories. In terms of the essential workers, we will continue to monitor the essential workers and their adherence to our rules. The case you cite in your Member's statement is very disturbing to me, and I commit to looking into the details and getting back to you. In terms of exemptions, exceptions are one-off and are granted for compassion or other valid reasons, such as caregivers and childcare are just two examples. There are also several categories of exemptions under the travel restriction order, so all Northwest Territories as well as essential service workers, mine workers, supply chain workers, are considered exempted under the travel provision. In terms of the status cards, we are only accepting Northwest Territories IDs where there's clearly NWT residency. In terms of the drug dealers and the bootleggers, of course we don't want these people in here. However, if they do have a valid Northwest Territories proof of residency, there's not a lot we can do other than, in the past, we have advised the RCMP when there are suspicious behaviours. That's been very successful because of the partnership with them.

Can the Minister relay to our Chief Public Health Officer that we will be seeing more residents travelling south throughout the summer and that, upon return, some of them may start to ignore the self-isolation order and look to self-monitoring as an option? Also, ask her how that will be addressed? Because the last thing we want to do is make criminals out of our residents.

Our compliance and enforcement task force are expecting and are prepared for more Northwest Territories residents that are travelling south during the summer months. They are working closely with officers who are manning the borders and airports to protect the Northwest Territories, to ensure that there is a consistent approach for returning residents, including extensive public awareness and communication efforts.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Minister. Member for Hay River South.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister confirm what authority the Chief Public Health Officer has, and can it be overridden by this government? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The authority is under Part 5 of the Public Health Act, respecting public health emergencies, as well as sections 11 and 25. The Chief Public Health Officer is a statutory appointment who reports directly to me, as Minister.

There are several categories in exemptions under the travel restriction order that all Northwest Territories residents, as well as essential service workers, mine workers, supply chain workers, are considered exempted under the travel-prohibition provisions. The best way to track the total exemptions would be to count the number of self-isolation plans, which we share weekly with our Members. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.

Question 252-19(2): Remediation of Mining Sites

Merci, Monsieur le President. My questions are for the Premier, who is responsible for federal relations. My statement earlier today outlined how the federal government has made very substantial investments, hundreds of millions of dollars, in Western Canadian provinces to support the energy sector by expediting well site remediation. Has the Premier considered similar assistance to the NWT to accelerate action on our extensive contaminated-sites inventory? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Honourable Premier.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Absolutely, the remediation from mine sites has always been a priority. I take ownership for some of that. Just recently, a drill was returned to my brother that was left from my father. My father has been gone for over a decade, but, in the 1960s, the mining and the drilling here was not okay. They were dumping things all over the place. There are huge issues within the territories, and there is a huge economic opportunity to clean that up. It wasn't based on rudeness; it was based on ignorance. They did not know better back in the day. Mining is different. My Minister of ITI, as well, has been on this. That is not only her portfolio. It is her background. She also is well aware of the economic opportunities and the issues we face within that.

I want to thank the Premier for that. I think there are hundreds of millions of dollars at stake here and that, if we made the right pitch to the federal government, we could tap into that. Can the Premier tell us what specific work has been done to pursue this opportunity to drive economic recovery in the NWT through this strong federal investment in contaminated-site remediation here?

On our side, with EIA, our officials have had discussions with officials before COVID-19, in all honesty, on a regular basis. I also know that my Minister of ITI is also right now working on a pan-northern letter to the federal government, to Minister O'Regan, actually, with CanNor to actually advocate for that funding.

I want to thank the Minister for that. It's good to hear. She might have anticipated the next question, so I'm just going to change it up a bit. Earlier today, I had mentioned that there are opportunities where we could perhaps work with our neighbours in Yukon and Nunavut on the dedicated accelerated Northern Contaminated Sites initiative. Sounds like some of that work may be underway. Can the Premier tell us specifically what she has done? I understand it might be a letter. Can she give us a copy of that letter when it's done and keep reporting back to us about progress on this initiative?

There are two things. One, of course, I just checked with my Minister of ITI. Absolutely, she will give you a copy of the letter that she is writing on behalf of it. The other thing I want to speak about wasn't really asked, but I'm going to go there, is that every week since the beginning of March we have been meeting with the Prime Minister. We've been talking at our what is called FMM, First Ministers' Meetings. We've been talking about COVID-19. The last meeting we had, the council, the federation, the premiers across Canada decided that we were, and we told the Prime Minister, that from now on we are going to have one-week talks about COVID-19. One week goes back to our normal needs that we have longstanding. This will be something that I'll carry forward, as well. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Honourable Premier. Member for Frame Lake.

Merci, Monsieur le President. That is all good news from the Premier. I want to thank her for that. Just as the federal government is using this funding as leverage to get Alberta to commit to better management of resource extraction to prevent these sorts of things from happening, we haven't gone there. Five years after devolution, we've made no changes to our legislation or at least even brought them into force to make sure this doesn't happen again, and again, and again. Strategic Oil & Gas, we're going to inherit the site Cantung, it goes on and on. I want a commitment from this Premier that she's going to fix this issue and problem so that, when the feds say, "What are you doing about it," we can actually say that we are actually on it, finally.

I do like to work with the Members. However, I would have to look into that. I can't make a commitment on the floor that I'll fix that in this Assembly. I have to look at what the legislation is and what we have going on. I will make a commitment that I will look into it, and I'll get back to the Member. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Honourable Premier. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Question 253-19(2): SEED Funding During COVID-19 Pandemic

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment. In relation to my Member's statement today, I'd like to talk about the SEED funding. Is the department tracking how many applications for SEED funding are being submitted specifically as a result of COVID-19, and, if so, how many applications for COVID-19 SEED funding has ITI received, how many have been approved, and how much funding is associated with these approvals? Thank you.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister responsible for Industry, Tourism and Investment.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As we revamp our guidelines for our SEED funding, it's now sort of open to all, so that distinction of COVID-related or not is not really relevant. There have been 40 applications for SEED to date, requesting approximately $410,000. Thirty applications have been approved, equalling approximately $220,000 in funding. Two applications have been denied as they did not meet SEED policy criteria. Two applications were withdrawn. Six applications are awaiting review by the regional panels. Applications for the 2020-2021 SEED started being reviewed by the regions on May 13, 2020. It has only been two weeks that we have been receiving applications, and yet we have already gotten a lot out the door.

According to the backgrounder that accompanied the announcement of top-up funding, I quote, "a flexible approach shall be taken to the provision of SEED strategic initiative funding, with an allowable funding range between $30,000 and $70,000." However, the ITI SEED program webpage and the policy itself indicate that the maximum funding available under any specific entrepreneur support category is $25,000 per year. Can the Minister please clarify first what is meant by the term "entrepreneur support category" in the SEED policy, and are there separate pots of funding under the SEED umbrella? Thank you.

There are a number of sub-programs described in the SEED policy that fall under that entrepreneur support category, and there is no specific pot of funding associated with each. Generally, we have $4 million fund that supports economic development in our communities.

Can the Minister speak to what is the maximum amount available to an eligible business under SEED, and can an applicant seek funding under more than one of these entrepreneur support categories?