Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to continue on with that, then, if we can't provide the services here, I'm just wondering: we keep sending people down there. How many people have we brought back because we actually implemented something here in the territories to allow them to come back? How much of that work has been done? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just remembered something prior to the question. We are doing a supported living review so that we can be able to determine all of our patients who are having to have services outside of the territory, to do a review so that we can repatriate them eventually.
In terms of the past, sorry, Madam Chair, I'm just going to ask Deputy Minister Cooper. I don't have the numbers in front of me to be able to offhand say how many people we have actually brought back in the prior years. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister, please.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Unfortunately, I do not have the number either, but it's something we will endeavour to see if we have in the department. Thank you.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. We will take that as a commitment to return. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. What is the average cost, I guess, per person per year to house them down South? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. In front of me, I don't have that number, but we have to recognize that it would all depend on their level of care. The patients that we have outside of the territories, whatever services they are providing, it all would depend. I don't believe we have numbers at this time. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. It sounds like it's about $200,000 per person. It just seems to be a fairly hefty number. It would be nice to see, start to look at ways to bring people back here. In saying that, you mentioned a variety of issues that people have, and I am not sure if there is kind of a theme to that, if there are more in one area or not. What is it that we are short of here in the NWT that we have to send these people South? What are we short on the ground? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm not aware of the specifics, and I will ask Deputy Minister Cooper to be able to dig deeper into specific care needs and costs. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. This comes down to care intensity. Often, you have individuals who require one-on-one, 24/7 care. Sometimes, you have people who have feeding tubes or special, very intense care needs. Sometimes, you have individuals who have behaviour issues which require a good workforce of people trained in different methods of behavioural modification and different tools and strategies. What it comes down to is a mixture of probably some human resource capacity issues, the ability to have to guarantee a continuous service over the life of a person inside a market that can fluctuate, expertise. Sometimes, it's actually having facility with the correct equipment and to be able to provide the level of care that's required. It really comes down to an individual-case decision about when someone would be cared for in the South. Many of these arrangements are historical. They go back quite a ways, and some of them are family-based care arrangements and where individuals with disabilities have a kinship relationship there. It's their family now, in some ways, that they're living with. There are tangibles as I've described, and there are also some intangibles for some of the people who are there now that we expect our review will show. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I guess the next question is: you said that there are some people that have been down there for quite a number of years. How many of those people have we lost to the Alberta healthcare system, if any? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't know that level of detail. However, I can look to Mr. Cooper to be able to see if he's got specific numbers on how many we have lost as a result of them going to Alberta. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister, please.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm going to confess that I'm not sure what "lost to the healthcare system" means, if it means people who have died while in Alberta or if it means individuals who are now being cared for by Alberta. There would be none of those because anybody who is in Alberta in arrangement who is an NWT, was an NWT resident, is remaining in our care while in Alberta. If it's the former question about the lifespan or different health events that occur, I don't know the answer to that question.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My understanding, as well, with dementia, we have facilities here in Yellowknife to place people, but we don't really have any facilities outside Yellowknife with the proper care, and we send people to Alberta. Can you give me an indication if this government's looking to expand that type of care outside Yellowknife? An example would be Hay River. We have a building that's going to be available, and I just want to get an indication if that is something that this government would be looking at. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair, and I'm smiling at the Member. We do provide dementia care throughout the Northwest Territories in our facilities, so thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Anything further? Last question, Member for Hay River South?
Nothing further. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Are there any other comments on page 180, out of territory services? If there are no further questions, then, on page 180, I'm going to call the page. Out of territory services, operations expenditure summary, 2020-2021 Main Estimates, $73,528. Does the committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Next, we are going to look at funding allocated to health and social services authorities beginning on page 185. Are there questions on this page? Sorry, Members. I didn't realize these were double-sided pages. We are now going to consider supplementary health benefits beginning on page 182. Are there any questions on this page for the Minister? Go ahead, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.
Yes. Looking on page 183, the extended health benefits, can the Minister explain how, this year, they expect it to be less than previous years? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. In the previous years, the budget was $13 million, and this year, it is $11 million and change. The reason for the decrease is we got one-time funding in the prior year. Given that one-time funding was for us to do a supplementary benefits program review, so that's what our department is working on right now. In prior years, it was $13 million, and now, we're back down to $11 million as we're doing our review. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to clarify, in 2018-2019, we had $13 million, and 2019-2020, we had $13.1 million, almost $13.2 million, and now, we're going down $2 million almost. It was $2 million a year for a review? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. In the prior years, we were able to do supplementary appropriations to be able to address any growth. That's why it's been $13 million, and then $13 million, but this year, we're not given the extra funding. If we do, it would be through a supplementary.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.
Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. I'm just kind of confused, just knowing my process now. The main estimates in 2019-2020 were the same as the revised estimates, so there was no supplementary appropriation in that section to my knowledge. I'm trying to figure out what exactly did we spend, or what are we not spending, or where did we cut $2 million out of this budget? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Minister.
I'm going to ask Ms. Mathison to help me out here. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Director of finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, this program area is one where we have in the past number of years overspent. We have annually addressed it through supplementary appropriations. In 2018-2019, we did get a supplementary appropriation to increase our expenditures there to $13 million. The budget actually hasn't changed. In 2018-2019, the budget was $11 million, but our spend was $18 million because we got supplementary appropriation. 2019-2020, we got one-time funding during the business planning process to meet the needs that we were expecting in 2019-2020 while we understood the supplementary health benefits review. That funding was approved on a one-time basis, subject to the results of our review. Yes, typically, we like our budgets not have to go to that supplementary appropriation process, and because of that review, we haven't been able to adjust our budget this year. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.
Thank you for that answer. With that answer, with us sitting there with $11.4 million and we don't have the extra funding this year, what was given to me with 2018-2019 was $18 million. Is this budget we're looking at, probably a $6 to $7 million difference? That's what we need to be looking at for this next year? It's not actual? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The program is demand-based, as well, the actuals will fluctuate from year-to-year based on the benefits that we provide to clients. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes.
I'll move on to the next section. The medical travel benefits, we've got $19 million and then $15 million and $15 million. The $15 million for medical travel benefits, is this just for non-government travel, medical travel benefits? Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. Minister.
