Thank you. Any further questions? Services to government, not previously authorized, a reduction of $339,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Total department, not previously authorized, a reduction of $339,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. We will move onto page 11. We will now consider the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, operations expenditures. Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2020-2021, Municipal and Community Affairs, operations expenditures, regional operations, not previously authorized, $2,793,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Two point five million dollars to increase funding to municipal governments. One of our mandate commitments is to reduce the municipal funding gap. Can I just clarify whether this money is specifically in regards to funding for the municipal funding gap, and where this gets us in reducing that overall? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. This funding will be allocated based on the established funding formula that is already in existence, and so, as such, it will be divided accordingly and take a piece away from the funding gap that exists for all of those from the funding gap or from the formulas identifying a gap. I don't have the specific number by community, but I can provide that detail if that is what the Member is looking for. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes. I would like to see a bit more of, I know this is in the mandate and I know this is MACA, but a bit more of a costed plan of how much this actually reduces the funding gap by. I know we're quite a few million dollars short, and I also think when we do some of our hazard mapping and permafrost mapping from the climate change framework, we're going to see the cost of municipal infrastructure increase even more. It's somewhat a losing battle that I think we, as a territory, really have to prioritize. I'd like to hear a commitment from the Minister that we will get a little bit more of a breakdown of how, every time we throw a few million dollars at the municipal funding gap, we are actually closing it? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. "Throwing money at," that's totally the wrong term, but putting money in towards communities isn't just a matter of putting it into a bank account. Those communities are using that money to provide services: water and sewer services, for instance; waste services, for instance; other infrastructure. There's no doubt that needs always continue to grow, but every time that there's an investment made in the communities, it supports the fact that there's a gap in terms of the program services and infrastructure available in those communities. I suspect, Madam Chair, that it is going to be a complicated calculation in that, for some, an investment will support a gap that exists right now at a real point in time, and for others, yes, they will be experiencing climate change more severely than in other communities. Essentially, the gap, in some ways, one might say is growing, and others might say is actually reduced by an investment, by a greater percentage or proportion.
This is not an easy conversation, Madam Chair, but the commitment is there. It's in the mandate, and based on what's in the mandate, that is what this money is going towards. I can definitely provide the breakdown based on what we have all agreed, as the 19th Assembly, is a priority and then what was presented as being the mandate items, how the funding here is going to achieve those goals. I just want to caution that, in terms of saying community by community, what's their individual gap and where are they each at, that will probably continue to be a moving target over time. I just wanted to make a note of caution in terms of what we can provide. We will provide what this money is doing to the gap as it is found in the mandate right now. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I do want to commend the Minister and my friends in Cabinet for finding money to invest in this mandate item. This is good. I served on city council, so I know that municipal governments make good use of this money. What I want to get some assurance of is that there is actually someone or some way of tracking what the municipal funding gap actually is. That was done, I think, in the 17th Assembly. There was a task force between MACA and NWTAC, representation from different kinds of communities, small regional centres, and Yellowknife. They worked together on rejigging the way that funds should be allocated to municipal governments based on need. It was a great piece of work done collaboratively, and a moment in time, the municipal funding gap was identified. Is that work being kept up to date? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I believe that MACA is, in fact, keeping those numbers. Well, MACA can keep track of those numbers, Madam Chair, but I don't have the tracking right in front of me right now. I think that there is certainly an intention, at least in the Department of Finance, to the extent that there is a tracking of all of the public monies that are spent, to ensure that there is tracking, to ensure that the money that is being spent is being spent appropriately, wisely, and having the effects that we want it to have. I know that we have increased our capacity in the Department of Finance to do exactly that kind of work and make sure that, in fact, money is going where it needs to go and having the effects that it wants to have. I am certainly not going to commit the Minister of MACA to do one thing or another, but there can be monitoring. I think I would go so far as to commit that there will be monitoring somewhere, Madam Chair. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. While I have the MACA Minister's ears, I am going to suggest a couple of things here. What we need is an annual update of what that municipal funding gap is. It should be reported publicly so that we know what that is. It should be given to NWTAC, as well. If we have made a commitment together, as a priority, and Cabinet is willing to work on this, of closing that gap, we need a plan to do that. I know that things keep changing with COVID and all the rest, but we need to have a plan for how we think we are going to invest in that municipal funding gap for the rest of this term. Anyways, there are a couple of ideas that I want to plant in the Minister's ears, some kind of regular reporting, updating of that funding gap on an annual basis. If she can develop a plan for how we are going to deal with it as best that we can for the remainder of the term, that would be great. I will leave it at that. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Any further questions or comments under the regional operations? Seeing none, regional operations, not previously authorized, $2,793,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Sports, recreation, and youth, not previously authorized, $650,000. Does committee agree? Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I just wish I had the encyclopedic knowledge of my colleague, the honourable Member for Nahendeh, because he was passionate about this in the last Assembly. I sat next to him, so a little bit of it rubbed off on me. This is an interesting line item because we took the money out of the MACA budget, or some people agreed to take the money out of the MACA budget. I will put it at that. Now it's being put back in, where it should have been left to support these activities. Can I get an explanation as to why it's going back at this point? Is this a permanent increase over time, or is this just a one-shot deal to support our youth and recreation? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am not as well-versed to speak to the ins and outs of what went out in the last round of negotiations in a prior Assembly. I can say that this $650,000 is intended to be a temporary offset because of reduced revenues in 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 in Western Canadian Lotteries, which are a significant source of revenue for multisport funding within MACA. That reduction in revenue was resultant from lower lottery purchases than usual, which, in turn, was the result, at least in part, of a fairly significant network outage such that there simply was no ability to have sales of lotteries. That reduced the revenue by a significant margin. As such, there was a funding shortage, and so there is this money that has come forward here as far as being $650,000. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Thanks to the Minister for that. I am a bit disappointed to hear that this is just a one-time injection of cash. I guess we just have to revisit this in the next budget. Is that the way that this is going to get handled? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. There are some preliminary estimates that suggest that, in part, and this is maybe one of those moments of a small silver lining. When the Arctic Winter Games were cancelled quite unfortunately, there were, of course, as a result, some savings in terms of costs. Right now, a preliminary estimate is that it may well have been $450,000. That certainly helps to stabilize this fund. Again, similarly, if lottery ticket purchases also were to return and stabilize, then that should also reduce the reduction, increase the revenues that are going into this fund. With those two things, there may not be the same need to inject, sort of, a life raft into the funding. If that is the case, then there will be no need to increase this. Obviously, we will continue to monitor the fund and ensure that it is in stable condition. I believe that MACA does have a number of efforts under way to do exactly that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I guess I will just go on record that I am concerned about the state of this fund, hearing that people are buying less lottery tickets than we had projected, and it's probably not going to get any better for a while. I know that there is going to be some annual reporting now, as a result of changes that I pushed in the last Assembly to get public reporting of this fund on an annual basis by the MACA Minister. I am going to be watching this carefully. What I don't want to see happen, though, is that we reduce the level of support for our youth in sports in the Northwest Territories. That is going to be particularly important in the post-pandemic world. Right now, we can't get out to do a lot of these things, so maybe there is not as much draw or demand for this, but there is going to be a lot of pent-up demand for people to get out and start doing things again pretty quick. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Are there any further questions or comments under this section? Seeing none, sports, recreation, and youth, not previously authorized, $650,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Total department, not previously authorized, $3,443,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
All right. Thank you, committee. Do you agree that you have concluded consideration of Tabled Document 137-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures) No. 1, 2020-2021?
Agreed.
Thank you, Ministers, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing before us. Sergeant-at-Arms, you may escort the witnesses from the Chamber. Does committee agree that this concludes consideration of Tabled Document 137-19(2)?
Agreed.
Thank you. Mr. Norn.
Marsi cho, Madam Chair. I move that consideration of Tabled Document 137-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2020-2021, be now concluded and that Tabled Document 137-19(2) be reported and recommended as ready for further consideration in formal session through the form of an appropriation bill. Marsi cho, Madam Chair.
Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.
Question.
Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? Abstentions? The motion is carried.
---Carried
Tabled Document 137-19(2) will be reported as ready for consideration in formal session through the form of an appropriation bill. Mr. Norn.
Madam Chair, I move that we rise and report progress.
There is a motion on the floor to report progress. The motion is in order and non-debatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried.
---Carried
I will now rise and report progress.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Your committee has been considering Tabled Document 130-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Infrastructure Expenditures) No. 2, 2020-2021, and Tabled Document 137-19(2), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 1, 2020-2021, and would like report progress, with two motions adopted, that consideration of Tabled Documents 130-19(2) and 137-19(2) is concluded and that the House concur on those estimates, and that an appropriation bill to be based thereon be introduced without delay. Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
