Debates of October 20, 2020 (day 40)

Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Minister of Lands.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. A receiver has been appointed by the court and is responsible for meeting Strategic Oil and Gas Limited's regulatory obligations at Cameron Hills. The government does not own the Cameron Hills site. The receiver conducted work at the site last winter to support the suspended three wells and bring them into compliance with an order issued on October 4, 2019. Also, in regard to the cost, the costs incurred by the NWT received to date have been around $1.98 million. The Government of the Northwest Territories holds $2.9 million in security for this site and the Regulator of Oil and Gas Operations hold an additional $1 million. These funds are accessible as needed as set out in legislation. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I want to thank the Minister for that information. It's good news that some work is finally done to close the Cameron Hills field, maybe by receiver, but ultimately, it's going to come back to us. There is no way the money that is set aside is going to be able to cover all this. Can the Minister tell us how much money we actually can access in the various forms of available security for the remediation of the property and how much is left before we have to ask taxpayers to cough up more?

The GNWT has $2.9 million. As I said, the regulatory of oil and gas hold an additional $1 million. Right now, we have $3.9 million present.

I am trying to do a quick math on my feet here. It looks like we've got about $1 million left to do a lot more work. GNWT accepted the Cameron Hills site without an approved closure plan and without full financial security being posted. That should never have happened. We didn't use all the tools available to us to stop it from becoming a public liability either. Having seen some of the inspections reports, there's still a lot more work to be done properly to close and remediate this property. Can the Minister tell us whether there is a plan yet for the closure and remediation of the site and how much that will cost or when a costed plan will be completed?

On September 17, 2020, the Mackenzie Valley Land and Water Board issued a one-year storage authorization for the land-use permit. The authorization is posted to the board's public registry, and the receiver indicated that this was being done as an interim measure until a land-use permit renewal is completed and approved. We don't know exactly how much it's going to cost completely to remediate this site.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Frame Lake.taiga

Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that information. It's clear that the GNWT has not done enough to stop public environmental liabilities in a systematic way. We have no early warning system despite commitments to do so in the last Assembly. We have Ekati Mine teetering and nothing in the mandate letter for this Minister to finally put in place a preventative approach to public environmental liabilities. Can the Minister tell us exactly what he intends to accomplish in this Assembly to prevent further public environmental liabilities, like Strategic Oil and Gas? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.

Prevention of the public liabilities require a collaborative effort from multiple departments, including Lands, ENR, Industry, ITI, and Finance. Current work on early warning includes monitoring the health of the financial institutions, tracking trends in industry, and the financial health of operators and monitoring the environment and regulatory compliance of the operators. I am committed to work with my Cabinet colleagues to continue to enhance this important work. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I said earlier in my statement, I am grateful for some of the work we have started on closing the municipal funding gap. However, we are a long way off. Furthermore, Mr. Speaker, I believe we need to increase the capital funding this year by $5 million. In the grand scheme of things, this is approximately a quarter of a percent of our $2 billion budget. Mr. Speaker, if we can't find a quarter of a percent in our $2 billion budget, then we're truly not in charge of our budget as an Assembly. My question for the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs: can we increase the capital funding to our community governments by $5 million? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As previously, I did announce that we do have $2.6 million that will be allocated to municipal communities and, also, that we will be meeting with the Northwest Territories Association of Communities to identify how we will be distributing that funding. Right now, that's the funding that is going to be available. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I did not expect it to be that easy, but I will have a lot more questions for the Minister during our Capital Estimates tabled today. My concern right now is that the way we fund our municipalities lacked any certainty. We agreed to a formula, but we haven't given the money. I believe the right comparative here would be how we fund our education authorities. There're guidelines in the education, there're guidelines in regulations, and then finally, there're guidelines in policy. No one is in doubt that we are not within those parameters. There may be a debate about whether we should give more to our education authorities, but we're following a clear and predictable authority such that they can plan. We have not given that benefit to our municipality. My question for the Minister of MACA is: will she bring forward legislation that sets out how we fund municipalities in the life of this Assembly?

According to what we have put forward for Municipal and Community Affairs, this was not identified as one of the legislation policies that we would be looking at, but it doesn't stop me from working with my department to look at further solutions. I will return a response back to the Member.

I look forward to that response. One of my concerns is the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs has a large legislative backlog, and they need the resources from the Cabinet to make sure they get ahead of that. One of the mandate commitments is that MACA will work with NWTAC to update funding policies and options. However, this mandate commitment is to be completed in 2023. Whenever I see a mandate commitment completed by 2023, alarm bells ring as these are the commitments that will be at the end of this Assembly. I'm not at all convinced that MACA will get this done, let alone review the policy and bring forward legislation to provide that predictability. Is the Minister willing to speed up the mandate commitment to review the funding policies before 2023?

My comment to the Member and to answer the question that we are working under unusual circumstances with COVID-19, and it has really burdened a lot of our processes that we are initiating right now. This will be something I will bring back to the department, and I will follow up with the Member.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My final concern is: the last Assembly made a concerted effort to close the gap, but it barely kept pace with the pace of inflation. Mr. Speaker, I do not believe that this formula needs to be at the will of subsequent Assemblies. I recognize the budget is always fundamental to our approval. However, there needs to be some more certainty. I believe legislation is the tool to do that. Can the Minister speak on her plan to make sure that the gap does not re-emerge for any progress this Assembly does make on it? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Looking at making the commitment to work with this is quite complex, and it requires a lot of different initiatives. I will follow up with the Member, as well, because as I said that Municipal and Community Affairs has already identified their legislation. We have already put money towards the funding gap, and we are working within COVID-19. This will be a discussion that I will have with my department, and I will follow up with the Member. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment. The NWT Nominee Program for the business stream used to have a $75,000 good-faith deposit. I am wondering if the Minister can explain what purpose the deposit did serve? Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As you may be gathering from the past tense, this program requiring the $75,000 deposit has now been discontinued. I understand that, in the past, this was one method by which the department was able to help ensure that applicants were, in fact, serious and had the capacity, the financial capacity, to see the process through. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

I am wondering if the Minister can let us know how many times that good-faith deposit was kept by the Government of the Northwest Territories?

I believe this program has been in place since 2009, and to my knowledge, we have only kept three deposits.

No. I appreciate knowing that that was kept three times. Can the Minister speak to what happens to this deposit, and was it ever used to support damages to local businesses that were incurred by local businesses in relation to this program?

If it's kept, it reverts to the government, but its purpose was never to shore up or provide any kind of background insurance to private industry or private businesses. If an individual is dealing with someone who happens to be in this program, the good-faith deposit would not be used, as I say, to engage in whatever the private business relationships would be.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I am understanding that there was a good-faith deposit that was instituted by the Government of the Northwest Territories to ensure that applicants met their agreement with the Northwest Territories to come here, set up business, participate in northern economy, and to really form relationships with local businesses. I also understand that three times the GNWT kept deposits when that did not work and that not necessarily was that ever passed along to local businesses that may have incurred damage because of this program. What I am wondering, Mr. Speaker, is: through gaining almost a quarter of a million dollars from this program, what is the purpose of getting rid of the deposit? I have many questions. Maybe I am going to have to stand back up again. How is the Government of the Northwest Territories going to ensure that participants in this program actually fulfill their end of the deal?

The point of the program is to encourage, well, to encourage a number of things. This is meant to be a program that brings folks into the community who can fulfill our labour shortage needs, who can bring direct investment into the economy, who can come and help add dimension to the local business community. However, if, in fact, there have only been three occasions in the last 10 or so years where it got to the point where they were unable to meet that commitment by way of having their deposit forfeited, Mr. Speaker, really that is a pretty good track record, overall. Really, the reason it's being eliminated is: that brings us in line, at long last, with every other jurisdiction in Canada so that, if we are going to be competing for people to come and to invest and to become residents and to contribute to local economy, it makes sense that we not be out of step with what is happening elsewhere in Canada.

That said, Mr. Speaker, the department takes it seriously that, first of all, there needs to be a visit that is done to the jurisdiction to ensure that anyone coming in knows where they are coming and is prepared to make that commitment and to move here. Then, secondly, once they are here, it's, I believe, roughly a two-year process before which they would actually be invited to participate or invited in to go through the rest of the immigration stream.

It's not an uncumbersome process for these businesspeople. It really gives them an opportunity to be supported through that process by the department, to get their legs under them as far as a business goes. At that point, hopefully they are, as most have been, able to successfully set up their businesses and go forward. That is not to say that there cannot always be tweaks and improvements to a program or a system, as with so many other things that are done. However, really, this is an opportunity to bring people in and to bring businesses in. We are now bringing ourselves to be competitive with the rest of Canada when we are doing that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Monfwi.

Masi, Mr. Speaker. [Translation] When we are MLA, we do ask questions. When we speak standing in the House here, it's on behalf of the people of the Northwest Territories. Today, I am asking the Minister of Health and Social Services. There were recommendations made through the TRC. [Translation ends].

Focusing our attention on what is happening today, obviously, we are here to hold government to account. Obviously, we are asking questions on behalf of people of the Northwest Territories. It's not our words. It's their words, trying to get some answers out of the department. I have a different line of questions on TRC, Mr. Speaker. It has been more than five years since the Truth and Reconciliation Commission issued a call for new healing centres to deal with the emotional and spiritual change caused by residential schools. The TRC specifically singled out the Northwest Territories. Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt in anybody's mind that reconciliation includes healing from addictions. Therefore, Mr. Speaker, why does the Minister refuse to consider the idea of Northerners treating Northerners in northern facilities as the TRC seems to recommend through actions number 20 and 21? Masi, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Member for Monfwi. Minister of Health and Social Services.

Mr. Speaker, it is my understanding that, when I take a question on notice, that is on notice for the day. This question is taken on notice. Thank you.

Thank you. The question is taken as notice. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I would just like to gain a little bit of extra clarity. In relation to the good-faith deposit, the GNWT has collected roughly $225,000. I am wondering if there was an expense that the GNWT felt that they incurred by running the program that would justify keeping that? Thank you.

Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. There are always some expenses that get incurred when programs are administered through the Government of the Northwest Territories. I am sure there is no exception to this one, but unless I look back over the last 10 years and am able to actually reconcile expenses versus program benefits, I am not going to be in a position. I certainly will do my best to go back to the department to see if we can provide that kind of reconciliation for the Member. Thank you.

I would speculate that the expenses to the department would be in the form of salary dollars to people who would remain employed whether or not someone was participating in the program. I can say that there may be business owners in our communities who have been hurt, not directly by the program, I will say, but by people not fulfilling their obligation to the agreement that was in relation to the program. These people have not been compensated through the good-faith deposit. What I am wondering is if there is a mechanism for people, for business owners within our communities, to receive compensation from the good-faith deposits?

It's a deposit, and it is a deposit that is regulating a relationship and a program between the department and an individual who is potentially going to immigrate here. Unfortunately, it is not a compensation mechanism. The compensation mechanism when an agreement between private entities goes awry is typically through the Department of Justice and through the court system or some other form of mediation or arbitration. Again, the service and the process of the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment with respect to this program is to try to provide supports to the businesses that are potentially moving here, try to encourage that investment, try to encourage that growth in the community in the business sector. However, again, if there is a problem that arises between the two private entities, that is something that is not connected to this deposit. It unfortunately has to go through the same system as every other private dispute between parties.

I agree that immigration is a great thing, and I agree that the local business community is very excited to work with people who are coming to enrich the lives of Northerners and to add to our economy. I do not agree, though, that the sole focus or the only focus in this case of ITI is to support people who are involved in the program. ITI's job is to support also northern entrepreneurs and Northerners who are trying to make it as business owners, so what I am wondering is: what does the Minister of ITI suggest as far as how local business owners protect themselves in these business dealings with people who are participating in the program, potentially not fulfilling their obligations under the agreement, and then going home because international litigation is very costly and not affordable to local entrepreneurs to take part in? How does the Minister suggest that local entrepreneurs protect themselves in these business dealings?

Mr. Speaker, I am glad to hear the comments around what makes it so positive to have a program like this. It is positive. There are labour shortages. There are gaps, and our businesses and business community here benefit from the strength and the diversity that we have by drawing people to the North to contribute to our economy, so it is a good thing. Mr. Speaker, we are no longer accepting these deposits. We are getting in line with what's happening in the rest of Canada and making ourselves a more attractive jurisdiction.

When there is a business here from someone who is a new resident, really, Mr. Speaker, I am not sure it's my role to give business advice directly from the floor to the business community. We have a strong and a vibrant business community, and they know as well, and better than me, the steps that they can take to draft contracts, to do their own due diligence, to require deposits, to have prompt invoicing. There are a host of things that the business community can and needs to do, and it is no different whether they should be using that due diligence and that caution vis-à-vis a business or an individual who is through this program or any other business. It's unfortunate if there has been a bad experience for someone with someone who may have been in the program. That is certainly not a story I want to hear of.

Mr. Speaker, this program is overall a success. It is going to be hopefully even more successful by being more competitive, without a deposit. The Department of ITI provides a number of business supports, as do so many of our business institutions, so it's my sincere hope that, as we go forward, our small-business community will be benefitted by this program in its new form.

Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Kam Lake.

Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I appreciate the Minister's words, and I appreciate the fact that she does come from a very distinct legal background. I would like to suggest that, given that the North is definitely always looking for ways to build capacity and always looking for ways to empower local business owners, that potentially the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment can put some weight behind helping build that strength within the northern business community to make sure that everybody has tools at their disposal to set themselves up for success. Thank you.

Mr. Speaker, I hope we are ending on a good note because I absolutely agree with that suggestion. I will definitely go back to the department and ensure that we are making available through our channels and through partners in the community, such as the chambers, information about how to run a business, how to do the due diligence, and how to ensure that, when they enter into contracts with a new business, no matter where that business comes from, that they are doing so in a way that is going to be to the growth and the support of both of the businesses that are involved. Yes, I am more than happy to take that back. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.