Thanks, Madam Chair. If I did my math correctly on page 66, it looks like there are going to be 104 retrofits and nine new units. The nine new units seem to be in Inuvik. Can someone tell me: is that RCMP housing, or is that housing that is going to be made available to residents? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That would be our RCMP units. I will have Mr. Martin elaborate on the program delivery. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to confirm, those nine units scheduled for 2021-2022 are for the RCMP housing delivery. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Martin. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Why are there no new units for residents of the Northwest Territories? It's all retrofits. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We did roll out our estimates, and we did put our budget together. We do have some units that were announced in June of this year. I don't have them listed on here, but we are looking at the retrofits and looking at the units. I want to say that I want to bring them up to standard, and I had announced this, as well, that I wanted to sell the refurbished units and to put home ownership on the ground. I will have Mr. Williams elaborate on the response, as well. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Williams.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Minister is correct. We do retrofits with our existing finances that we do have, and our inventory. Unless we get new money, new money for infrastructure and new money for O and M, we can't add to the inventory. We do a lot of due diligence on making sure that our existing units are kept in good order, so half of our budget is spent on retrofitting our existing public housing stock. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Williams. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. When I look at all the other departments in here, there are a whole bunch of shiny new toys for everybody except for the Housing Corporation. What's going on here? We have lots of retrofits, I get that, but no new units? I just don't get it. Is this the glass ceiling that we're talking about here, where the Housing Corporation cannot take on any new units because there is concern around O and M? Is that what we're talking about here? This is a question for the Minister. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, that is correct. It's operations and maintenance funding. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Okay. We've got to get more money into the Housing Corporation for new units. I don't know how I can say that more clearly. If it's pitched to the financial management board as forced growth, a new initiative, I don't care anymore. We need more money for housing, for new units, and for the O and M that needs to go along with that. Can the Minister make a commitment to go to the Financial Management Board and get more money for new units for the Housing Corporation? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I will put something together. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks. I think that is the best news I have had almost all year. Look, I think Members on this side want to support the Minister in getting more money for the Housing Corporation for new units, not just retrofits. If you can find some federal money that goes along with it, that is great, but we need more money from our own source, our own pot. I want to shift a little bit here now, Madam Chair, but that was indeed great news and a fantastic commitment from the Minister, and I don't want to underestimate that in any way.
When I look, though, on page 65 of the estimates, this is flow-through money that comes really through the Department of Finance as a contribution to the Housing Corporation for its capital. If you look at 2019-2020, there is about $17 million and change; 2020-2021, $11.6 million; 2021-2022, only $10.6 million. Our contribution to the Housing Corporation for capital is declining over time. How can that possibly be? What is happening? How can our capital contribution to the Housing Corporation actually decline over time when housing is such a high priority? Am I misinterpreting this in some way? That is what I would like to know. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair, and to the Member, as well. We do have a decline in the funding that we do receive, but we also have the RCMP units that are coming forward. Those are just RCMP replacement for market housing units. I will have Jim Martin elaborate on the declining of the funding. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes. For 2021-2022, the Housing Corporation, as per the estimates, has set aside approximately $10.6 million to support our regular capital delivery and the RCMP units, as we identified, for incremental revenues to support our social housing program, so we are doing that. However, in addition to that, we are also making other investments within the allowance that we have within our fiscal framework. Examples of other investments beyond the $10 million would be an additional investment of $1.2 million into the Community Housing Support Initiative program. This program has a significant amount of uptake, particularly from smaller communities, and we are going to continue to support that strategic investment.
We also are supporting a couple of additional co-investment fund applications for 2021-2022, as well, and the two in particular that we had built into our fiscal framework right now is the Hay River Family Support Centre -- we are planning to fund that project, our share of it, of course; we are hoping to leverage a significant investment from the federal government with those dollars -- and also the Yellowknife Women's Society's project, Arnica Inn. We have a notional amount set aside of additional dollars to leverage funds there, as well. We are starting to shift a bit of our dollars into leveraging and expanding our base through that means.
Other areas that we are investing in in 2021-2022 that do not show up in the capital plan is: we are continuing to support investments in the public housing lease-to-own program. We do see a significant amount of opportunities for home ownership in this area, and we will continue to support that. Also, for 2021-2022, we are investing additional dollars into fuel tank replacements. We recognize that this is an environmental risk area, and we have done a good assessment of the replacements that need to be completed over the short while here. We will be putting in an additional $1 million into fuel tank replacements planned for 2021-2022 to accelerate that investment. Then, finally, we are investing in some additional environmental assessments to support our districts with the delivery of our maintenance and improvement projects. Those are some examples of additional dollars that we have been using beyond the capital allowance that we have in our fiscal framework. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Martin. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Look, lest anybody gets the wrong idea, I know our people at the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation work very hard at their jobs, and they are obviously very creative in finding other pots of money and ways of leveraging funding and so on. However, the fact is that we need more money spent on housing. I want to reiterate. I am right behind the Minister when she goes to the Financial Management Board to get more money for capital projects, new housing for the Housing Corporation so that we can possibly start to address our housing deficit across the Northwest Territories and the units that are in core need, which continue to grow. I am right behind the Minister when she goes to get more money. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. I will take that as a comment. Member for Thebacha.
Thank you, Madam Chair. This morning, in my Member's statement, I said that I had a lot of thinking to do about people, about priorities in life, and about positive changes for how our government can make a difference. Obviously, when you look at page 66, when you see the community of Fort Smith with major retrofit, one unit, I want to know from the Minister: how is that going to make a difference in the community of Fort Smith?
Thank you, Member for Thebacha. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. One of the things the Housing Corporation is working on is Indigenous partnership. It's a huge priority for us within our department, but we have additional housing programs and additional housing partnerships that do exist in Fort Smith. With the announcement of the federal money that they did have, we did work in conjunction with them. Looking at opportunities like that, the Housing Corporation is in a different financial situation that we have. It's very unique how we administer and how we program-deliver compared to the other government departments. However, with what we have got, we really need to rely on the Indigenous partnerships so we could look at working at projects together, so we could start initiating and start to put more houses on the ground. I really elaborate on the Indigenous partnerships and the federal money that they are able to acquire. I will have Jim Martin elaborate on the response. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes. As the Minister mentioned, the Housing Corporation, beyond our capital plan, is working very closely with communities to look for leveraging opportunities. A good example of that is our work with the Salt River First Nation. We have supported the Salt River First Nation with the delivery of six units to date, and we are building on a very successful partnership there. We are going to continue to look for those opportunities through various funding mechanisms that we have available to us, the Community Housing Support Initiative program, as was mentioned previously, also looking for opportunities to partner with Indigenous governments and other partners to leverage additional dollars under programs such as the co-investment fund. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Martin. Member for Thebacha.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to go back to the National Housing Co-Investment Fund. It's controlled by the Government of Canada, the fund. We are always going back to that: there is $60 million there; there is the co-investment fund, and 25 percent is all you've got to put in. If the Government of the Northwest Territories is really, seriously thinking of closing the gap on housing in the Northwest Territories, $16.5 million is not a bad investment to make sure that we all get equal access to housing in the Northwest Territories and putting the money in so that the $60 million can be controlled by this government. I think that thinking out of the box is about time. I think that we have to start realizing that there are other ways of killing the cat when it comes to housing. That's our biggest issue as Members in this House on both sides of the House.
I think that, with all due respect to the housing department -- it's easy to say, "We're going to go through this." What is one retrofit in Fort Smith going to do for the community of Fort Smith? Yes, we do have a partnership with Salt River First Nation. I initiated that program, but there's not only Salt River in Fort Smith; there is the Fort Smith Metis Nation; there is the community at large. We have a community that needs housing. Using this co-investment fund as an answer every time without doing anything about it and taking it seriously and getting it into our control is not okay.
It's unacceptable for a government to have all this money sitting there, $16.5 million, and that will solve most of the problems. Instead, we're nitpicking of who gets what and who plays with what. We do play a game here. It's almost like a big dartboard. We're throwing darts, and we're seeing who is going to get this today. One retrofit? It sounds really unbelievable how this works. I'm not used to thinking in those terms. As a businessperson and a person who has done some amazing things with the community, not only of Salt River but the community of Fort Smith, to listen to people at this level talk in those circumstances is unbelievable.
I think the bigger picture for all the Northwest Territories, and we're talking about vulnerable people here, I don't care what colour or race or whatever they are. Most of them will be Indigenous, but there are all vulnerable people from all races. It just gets to me that I have to look at page 66 again just to remind myself. I should have brought a magnifying glass to see exactly what I had there: one retrofit. It's really unbelievable. I would like the Minister to make a commitment like one of my other colleagues says and go to the financial management board and ask for this $16.5 million, get this money into our control, and start looking after the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Madam.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I hear the frustration. I hear you. The co-investment fund is frustrating. It is an opportunity by the federal government, and I am absolutely frustrated with it. It's an opportunity that's out there, but it's not an opportunity. One year to process an application is absolutely not acceptable. Now, we're looking at this rapid rehousing, and they gave us three months to go ahead and throw applications in. I look at it as an absolute insult, and I think, "Why isn't the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation capable of accessing that money? We can distribute, and we can report to the federal government and say, 'This is how we've spent it.'" Looking at the list that we have, with the amount of money that we do have as a corporation, and looking at the additional program delivery that we do have in comparison to what the retrofits and the houses that we're putting on the ground puts us in a different place.
I hear you, and I hear this throughout the Northwest Territories. I've been to some communities where we don't even have public housing units that are existing, but then people need their furnaces done. They need their houses repaired. I can honestly say that we are in almost a crisis when it comes to housing. There needs to be more emphasis on it. I absolutely agree with you, and I am getting frustrated as a Minister for housing because it's just a lot of needs that need to be met out there. We're dealing with different clientele, as well, that come with addiction issues and mental illnesses. It's larger than what is displayed on this page. I hear you. I honestly do. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Thebacha.
Madam Chair, in closing, I just say one thing. We could do positive changes and make a difference in this government. I hope that people start realizing there are other ways of doing things than the usual way. I think that we have to look at other ways. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Thebacha. I'll take that as a comment. We'll move to Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. First of all, my first question is: what is an M and I project? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I can't think of that at the top of my head.
---Laughter
I'll have Mr. Martin respond. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. M and I refers to modernization and improvement project, which is a.k.a. major retrofit. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Martin. Member for Great Slave.
Lots of all these funny words. I've looked through your list here very quickly. You have 113 units that there will be retrofitting this year coming up. If you just do a very rough calculation of the total dollars, we're looking at $94,000 a unit for a retrofit. I understand that there are different variations of levels within these units and what would be required. Can the Minister explain: is the cost of this so high because there are hazardous materials and such that need to be dealt with? It just seems like a large number for a retrofit of an existing unit. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. There are a number of different approaches we'd have to take, also environmental and structural and the design. There is a lot that goes into the retrofits. I'll have President Tom Williams respond.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Williams.
