Thank you, Madam Chair. I like that, technicians being able to come and work with the local contractors. If that's being done, then could we make sure that any local work that is happening, say for instance, in Paulatuk, can we have that work given to them with one of our technicians? We have people there who could do the work, but we don't have the Red Seal carpenter. Making sure that we keep it local and not bring people in because of COVID-19 times, if we have somebody local, is the department willing to work with local contractors to keep it local and to have a technician come and inspect the work? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That is exactly what the Housing Corporation is doing right now, for us to continue with that training aspect, keeping the local contractors and keeping the work local, and depending on our technical support to see those projects going forward. That is a priority. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to start off with the co-investment fund and the Rapid Rehousing Program. We talk about going to FMB and finding the 25 percent, but I think we should also have a plan B, which is go to the federal government and ask that that 25 percent be waived and that the funding is 100 percent because there might be some appetite, I understand, for that. I suspect you guys have already done that or are in the process of doing that. Just so that we have some options, there, because I don't want to see that money disappear. The way we're going, it's going to lapse, and even though we've still got another six years or whatever, I'm just afraid we're not going to see it. We've got to use every angle.
The other thing, again, as well, is to try and get that $60 million over here in the Northwest Territories so we have control of it, and the department then can manage it and get it out faster and help do the reporting. To do that, we need staff. Right now, we're into this I don't know how many months, and it sounds like we don't have any staff at the Housing Corporation looking after that. It's not just one person or two people; we're talking upwards of $60 to $100 million. I expect to see three, four, five, a half dozen people there just pushing this until all that money is gone because, more than likely, there is going to be more money after that. I would just like to hear from the Minister: how is she going to make sure that we actually get that money on the ground? We have got to do something different. Either you have got to reinvent the Housing Corporation so that it's more aggressive when it comes to federal dollars, or like I said before, we just throw up the white flag and quit. I would just like to hear comments from her. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I want the $60 million spent by the end of this government. I want to see applications, and I want to see that money committed. I want to see more money flowing to the Northwest Territories. I have spoken to the MP for the Northwest Territories, as well, and stressing the urgency. I have spoken to the federal government, as well, and expressed the urgency and really emphasized that we are not a province. We are the Northwest Territories; we do work differently. What they can build in the South for $500,000 is going to cost us $1.2 million here. We live in a different dynamic so having them take that into consideration. Hopefully, I want to be successful in it. If I could get that $60 million, that is what I want to achieve within this government and have it administered by the territory.
The other thing that the government is doing, as well, is lobbying for $100 million over 10 years. That is another approach that the government is taking, as well. Right now, I am very concentrated on the $60 million. I want to have that accessed by the Northwest Territories. Look, I hear your comment, as well, about the staffing and how are we going to be organized to spend and to work with the federal government and look at how this money is going to be distributed and how applications are coming through.
Right now, the program delivery has been done by the president for the Housing Corporation. He has been travelling throughout the territory. I have also included our -- I want to say the manager for homelessness; I can't think of his title right now. However, to really emphasize there is a broader need than just putting housing on the ground, there is programming, as well. It is very unique. It is very different in the territory. I am putting a lot of emphasis and a lot of weight on it. I can actually see a department that is going to be dealing with the co-investment fund and homelessness and putting all that together. As we go forward, you are going to see significant changes within the Housing Corporation. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Earlier today, the Premier made the comment "what is a life worth," and when we are talking about housing, it's life and death for some people. We all know that. When you go in the communities, whether it's Yellowknife, Hay River, Paulatuk, it does not matter, there are people who may be living on the street. When it's 40 or 50 below outside, we know what could happen. I think, when we are talking about this, that is something we have to keep in mind, as well: what is a life worth? I am reminded of that every day in Hay River when I am there, so it's important.
I want to talk about the RCMP housing, and I mentioned it, that Hay River got a couple of houses. We lost six public housing units, and RCMP housing units were put on the land there. The Housing Corporation has to do something. They have to do what they know, what they are best at, and that should be the delivery of public housing, not trying to get into a market, especially in the market communities where the public sector could do that. We need to concentrate on delivery of public housing units to the people who need it. This here, the RCMP housing, is an example, and to me it was a wrong move. It should have been a private sector project. I just want to make that comment. It's too late now, anyway, so we will just move on from that.
We talked about the family support centre in Hay River, and we have met with them a few times. They are getting frustrated, as well. They have been without their own building for a number of years now, and they may end up losing the building that they are in. Again, we are talking about people's lives. There could be people on the street. They are going after the co-investment dollars, so we have got to find a way again to make this happen. There is still confusion out there. It just amazes me that, after two years, there is still confusion on how to proceed with the application, with what is the process. If they are confused on the ground, I suspect that the department is somewhat confused with it, as well. I am kind of hoping that that gets straightened out, and that is why it's important that we have people who are working on that file constantly.
We talk about, "We are going to hire somebody; we are going to advertise; we are going to do this and that." There have got to be people within the organization that we can move or back-fill or whatever. Let's just get out there. It's something we have control of, something we can make happen. I would just like to get a commitment from the Minister, that this is going to happen sooner than later and that we are going to have a complement of people who can do the job and get out and assist the organizations, non-profits, whoever, who are trying to access those dollars. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to further comment on the CMHC funding. I hear my colleague. It is a struggle. We wanted to travel into Deline. Talk about the amount of emails that had to go to the federal government: ridiculous. Honestly, I was just appalled by it, that they want us to be working with this $60 million, but we can't even get their employee to just jump on the plane, come with us on a day trip, and start speaking about what is it that CMHC is offering. I feel that, right now, the Housing Corporation is program-delivering on their behalf, but we need them to be at the table. For myself, as a Minister, I am frustrated with them, as well. For them to come and do a presentation, the amount of hoops that we have to go through for the CMHC person to get the approval to say, "Yes. I am going to show up; I am going to be there." I have just sent an email this afternoon to the Minister for CMHC, responsible for CMHC, and just basically said, 'We need to get this done. We need to start getting out there. We need to start seeing applications." It's frustrating that there is an announcement for the Northwest Territories that we are able to access $60 million. Now, I hear the rapid housing, and it just seems unrealistic that, if they are not directly dealing with us and we are waiting on an approval for their one employee in the Northwest Territories to be travelling with us, it really makes it difficult to program-deliver. I am frustrated, and I could hear the frustration, as well.
Also, for the family-support building, the last briefing that I had, they were to fill out a co-investment application. I will have my department follow up with them and see where they are at. I would like to have that on the table for myself so I could push that with my federal conversation, as well. For the person to be advertised, I have been after my department since January to do this, and then we are following through, and then COVID-19 had hit. Advertisements, human resources, and the amount of hoops that we had to go through, at that time, there was a job offer that was given to an additional person, and the person had declined it and had another opportunity. I know that this position is intimidating because it's going to require travel throughout the Northwest Territories, 33 communities. This person is going to be constantly on the road. It's very discouraging for people to make that commitment to us for three years. My expectations of this position are very high. Hopefully, we are able to have this person hired by the end of the month. It's already going to be November on Sunday. This person had better be working at least by November 30th. Thank you.
Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I think there is strong support in this room and in this Assembly to give more money for housing. However, I do have some concerns about the current structure of the Housing Corporation and the way it operates. I don't want to just throw money at it if it does not ultimately put more houses on the ground and for the best bang for our buck. I have concerns about the lack of democratic oversight of the Housing Corporation.
I am looking at a budget here I do not get to vote on. I don't even have an ability to put money in this budget. There is one Minister, and then there is a president. There is no board. We got rid of the board. The amount of interest in housing, it just does not have the proper structure set up. When I look at BC, Ontario, Nova Scotia, it's the "Department of Municipal Affairs and Housing," municipal affairs and housing. You happen to be the Minister of municipal affairs. I believe there needs to be a department set up who is responsible for the Housing Corporation. Is the Minister willing to move the Housing Corporation into municipal affairs?
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. This is something that was brought to my attention, and I just need to look at the complexities of amalgamating these two departments. Right now, I would not want to do that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I want the Minister to caution that they are not two departments: one is an arms-length corporation; the other is a department. Is the Minister willing to have a conversation with the Premier and bring back some options to Regular Members on corporate restructuring for how we fund housing in the Northwest Territories? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I will. Yes. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Could that analysis include whether the Housing Corporation should have a board, perhaps a board of deputy ministers, even. At least then, at the DNC committee, they would argue for some more housing money. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I would just take that as a comment right now. I like the way that the Housing Corporation is structured. We have the capability of becoming very innovative and creative with the funding that we do have. Looking at the structure, no, I wouldn't change it. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Minister is also the Minister responsible for Homelessness. Perhaps a bad name, Minister responsible for ending homelessness is the goal here. You have no staff presently for that title. You just have an arms-length corporation. Is the Minister willing to look into getting herself some staff for ending homelessness?
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Minister responsible for Homelessness does not come with a budget, but the Housing Corporation has assumed the financial responsibility and does have staff that deal with homelessness. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Another somewhat controversial suggestion: when I look at the Housing Corporation, I see under it, 23 authorities. Each of those authorities come with staff; they come with offices; they come with administration. My experience has been: tenants are mad at the housing authorities; the housing authority is mad at the Housing Corporation. The Minister is frustrated. This room is frustrated. It seems to be a big chain of frustration in regard to housing and a bunch of homeless people at the bottom. I really don't believe that the housing authorities are the most efficient use of dollars in that those administrative costs mean we’re not spending money on actual houses. Is the Minister willing to look into removing some housing authorities?
Right now, I'm going to just kind of redirect back to the questions related to capital. Thank you. Member.
This gets to my entire point, Madam Chair. I'm looking at a capital budget, which the Housing Corporation goes and creates, which is undeniably based on how much it has to pay the authorities, how many staff the authorities have, how much staff it has, because it all comes out of one other O and M budget. Perhaps the Minister can look into that and come back with options of corporate restructuring. How many public housing units do we have in Yellowknife, and what is the current wait list in wait list in Yellowknife, Madam Chair?
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I will have Mr. Martin respond to the question. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes. In Yellowknife, the Housing Corporation administers 344 public housing units. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Martin. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you. Can I get the wait list, and can I get how many of those public housing units we own as opposed to rent? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Again, I'm going to redirect us back to the capital. Unless the questions are going to be leading up, if you could direct your questions to the capital. Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I believe we have a very large wait list. We have a lot of housing units. I believe we don't own a lot of them. I would like to build capital such that we can have GNWT-owned housing units in Yellowknife. Is the Minister willing to bring the rented units or the amount of units that we don't own into GNWT ownership in the Housing Corporation? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. This is a discussion I'll have with my department. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We had a bit of a conversation about capital management and I believe I heard, I forgot the put the figure down, but a very significant deficit, $40 million a year essentially, for the Housing Corporation to manage its stock. Is the Housing Corporation required to amortize its assets such that it is required to spend a certain amount in its capital budget every year, and if so, what is that amount? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That is correct. I don't have the amount in front of me. I'll have Mr. Martin respond. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Martin.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes. Our annual amortization depreciation of assets runs around $14 million. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Martin. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. This is one of those things I struggle to understand: budgets and the Housing Corporation budget. If we are required to amortize $14 million in assets, are we not then required to spend $14 million in the capital budget? However, I note that this capital budget is not $14 million. Can I get an explanation for why that is? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
