Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. One of the concerns that we hear from the business community is that, sometimes, ProtectNWT is contacted by the public because there are different exemptions that are happening in businesses that aren't well-known by the public, and that creates a lot of volume within ProtectNWT and then creates a lot of frustration within our communities from the public at large who feel that different businesses are not upholding public safety. I'm wondering if Cabinet or the Minister of Finance or the Premier would be willing to help businesses communicate their capacity, for example, or the rules of operation within COVID restrictions in the Northwest Territories. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. That is an excellent suggestion, and I can assure the Member that that conversation has already been held with the Chief Public Health Officer. It certainly is something that has come up, if not with the Business Advisory Council, then certainly in other circles where I am responsible for maintaining liaisons with. Essentially, it is to demonstrate or to show compliance with the Chief Public Health Officer, so businesses need to be able to demonstrate that they are complying with an order or an exemption, or whichever the situation for them might be, so that people, when they are attending there, know that they are attending somewhere that is safe and is being monitored and is monitoring the situation with COVID-19. As I said, I know there have been some discussions, and I think there is still some work being done on what those options might be. I will make the same commitment that I'll raise that again, see where that is at, and see what options can be brought forward. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2020-2021, Department of Health and Social Services, COVID secretariat, not previously authorized, $31,677,000. Member for Monfwi.
Masi, Mr. Chair. [English translation not available.] Mr. Chair, I move that $8.277 million not previously authorized be deleted from the Health and Social Services operations expenditure for COVID secretariat in the Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2020-2021. Masi, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member for Monfwi. The motion is on the floor and is being distributed. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member for Monfwi.
Masi, Mr. Chair. I feel it's important I speak my language, in summary, because this is a very delicate, sensitive matter in my region. [English translation not available.] Mr. Chair, towards this motion that I have submitted. I have been listening to the Members across the floor and here, as well, Regular Members, and different analogies have been read out. I like taking notes from Members when they speak so I can use their words, as well; similar to the Premier. Either we fight the fire or create a secretariat in the North. We must listen to the people. We only have limited resources. We are high in our debt limit. One forest fire, that is all it takes. If that were to happen, obviously, it's common sense, the forest fire would have to be a priority, not the secretariat.
Mr. Chair, the federal funding of the $24 million give or take, we are not telling the federal government to take it back as the Premier alluded to earlier. Whenever there is a free money, obviously, we like to take advantage of it. This is federal contribution of $24 million towards the COVID-19, not necessarily towards the secretariat that the government is pushing their agenda here. It's earmarked towards COVID-19 to offset the costs of COVID-19 but not necessarily to establish another bureaucracy within this GNWT. It needs to go to the overall coordination to deal with all COVID-19 in the Northwest Territories. What we are telling people here today, Mr. Chair, is secretariat is good for you. We are dictating to our own people of the North. We are not listening to them.
Mr. Chair, our government kept us safe since March. It did it in a manner respectful of our rights. It did it in a fiscally responsible manner when it first started, working with existing staff, shuffling our limited resources to where they were much needed. It came at a price in terms of overworked employees and a stressed-out system, but the GNWT made it work and kept us safe, Mr. Chair. Regrettably, at some point in the story, it also turned sour. It's at this point in the story that GNWT stops acting in a fiscally responsible way. It's at this point that GNWT stops making proud of our government and Cabinet that is calling the shots. Cabinet decided on a radical, unsustainable, unjustifiable approach.
Mr. Chair, they invented a model, a secretariat, completely new to this country of Canada, a model that no other Canadian jurisdiction dared to attempt, Mr. Chair, from Ontario, with over 15 million people, down to tiny Prince Edward Island. It decided to reinvent the wheel. What is this novel, untested GNWT approach, Mr. Chair? What our Cabinet wants to do is establish a totally new governmental department. They call it a secretariat, but that is only to minimize what they are doing, which is to set up a totally new government department, a totally new bureaucracy that reports directly to the Premier. The term "secretariat" is just a disguise. What's the price tag for this new department of COVID, Mr. Chair? It's a whopping $87 million today, but it could be far more even within the next few months or years.
Mr. Chair, just think of what $87 million could do for our people of the Northwest Territories. It could build 300 homes for homelessness. I have spoken to numerous times overcrowded Northerners. It could construct three new addictions treatment centres here in the North, plus six badly needed community health centres across the North. It's also equal to 100 new classroom teachers employed over the next five years. Mr. Chair, it also amounts to a cash grant for 500 struggling northern businesses to the tune of $200,000 per company. Just imagine. That could be an economic boost to our businesses in the Northwest Territories if we invest in those businesses.
Mr. Chair, instead of reinventing the wheel, there are other more productive, more useful things government could do. The government could focus on human cost, on social distancing rules and isolation requirements. I am talking about the loneliness, separated families, emotional stress, depression, substance abuse that we are faced with every single day. Mr. Chair, instead of more bureaucracy, Cabinet could focus on the costs of locking down the borders. That is where the COVID-19 is coming from, southern jurisdiction. Lock it down. It could be more establishing new isolation centres, assisting unemployed performing artists, creating work for hundreds who have lost their jobs through the COVID crisis. Instead, Mr. Chair, we are building a monument to the Premier's vanity, a secretariat bureaucracy wasting our taxpayers hard-earned dollars.
Mr. Chair, I can go on and on, but I am going to close off with saying: give us mature, intelligent, decision-making, Mr. Chair, not a new burdensome bureaucracy, not a Taj Mahal that I referred to earlier. Mr. Chair, when the supplementary request for the secretariat comes before this Assembly through this motion deleting that item, I hope my fellow MLAs will give it a reception it deserves. They must say no to the excessive, irresponsible spending of this government. They must say yes to a safe Northwest Territories led by decision-makers free of panic and fear, northern-made solutions with northern input at the beginning of this whole crisis and where we are at today. Mr. Chair, that concludes my opening remarks, and I will have more when I will conclude on the motion. Masi.
Thank you, Member for Monfwi. To the motion. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I am going to express some frustration. That is the first I have seen this motion, and it's moving to remove $8,277,000. I also am proposing a motion to move $5 million. The Minister of Finance just recently said we are picking random numbers. I have some questions about what this random number is as opposed to my random number. More to the principle of the motion, I do not agree with the things MLA Lafferty just said. I am in support of the COVID secretariat. I am specifically trying to remove money from the isolation centre costs because the projections for that and what I believe we will actually do do not line up. It's a weird situation where there is one motion to remove money and I am also proposing after this motion to remove money. I, ultimately, due to the fact that I support the COVID secretariat and disagree with the principle behind this first motion, am not in favour of it. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. What I would ask anybody speaking to the motion is that you actually speak to the motion in front of you and not the one that may be coming up. Thank you. To the motion. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I know it's been a long day and long evening, but I am concerned with some of the remarks that I heard. I think I do not support personal attacks on the Premier. This is not about the Premier's vanity, and I do not accept those kinds of remarks being made in the House. I just don't think that they are appropriate.
This is not another bureaucracy. This is continuing functions that have been going on since March, April, May. This is not a new bureaucracy. This is continuing the efforts of our government attempting to respond to a public health emergency. This is unprecedented. We have a pandemic. We have a public health emergency on our hands, and I take at face value what my colleagues on the other side have said, the Minister of Finance, the Premier, in terms of demonstrating fiscal prudence with monthly variance reports, that there are efforts underway to reduce the cost of the isolation centres, which are the major part of the cost in the supplementary appropriation for the COVID secretariat functions. I'm not dictating to anybody what happens with this pandemic. I accept what the Chief Public Health Officer has done to date in terms of keeping us safe or keeping our residents safe.
Everybody's entitled to their own views about whether they support this funding or not. I'm not dictating to anybody, and I don't believe that Cabinet is dictating to anybody how we respond to the pandemic. A lot of this has been done quickly, and I think it has kept our residents safe. I commend Cabinet and my colleagues on this side of the House for working together through a lot of this. It hasn't always been easy, but I think we've found reasonable compromises and grounds to work together in the interests of all of our residents.
I had hoped that if people on our side have concerns or issues with the cost, that there would be more specific suggestions around ways to reduce them, and I think some of us have brought some of those ideas forward. If you don't like the management function performed by the secretariat, say so, and move to remove that, or the communications function. There's a number of things here that I'm just not prepared to compromise on things like border controls, ProtectNWT, the self-isolation centres. We'll be watching very carefully. We'll continue to put pressure on my Cabinet colleagues to find, to save funding for those functions.
At the end of the day, how much is public health worth, $8 million? I'm sorry. I'm prepared to spend that to invest in the health and safety of our residents. That's what this is about. We're not approving $87 million here. This is about funding for the COVID secretariat functions to the end of this fiscal year. Next year, all bets are off. I'm hoping that the pandemic is over by then. We're being asked to approve an additional $8 million tonight, and I'm ready to do that. I'm not prepared to support this motion, and I would hope that colleagues, when speaking to this, refrain from attacking individuals that are here in the House. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, MLA for Frame Lake. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you. I'm getting a little tired of people policing what other people say around here. If people want to speak to their opinions, then they should be allowed to do so. I think it's up to us to have to sometimes point out hard things and truthful things to the public and to each other, so I defend my colleagues' right to speak to however he would like to.
I agree. I don't think that $8.277 million is going to be the "make it or break it" for the safety of our people. I recently spoke to, and will speak to probably before the end of session, the circumstances around the last cases that came up around COVID. Nothing about what I've seen around the secretariat or the HSS's handling of the COVID cases gives me any faith that spending an additional $8.27 million on it will actually improve things. If anything, I think it's just throwing good money after bad, so I won't be supporting my colleague's motion here. Thank you.
Thank you, Member.
Question.
Question's been called. Sorry. Member for Monfwi.
Mr. Chair, I'm not sure how Members feel that this is not an important matter. We're talking about $8.7 million here. New money. If nobody else is going to speak to it, I want to close it off by saying that this has been an ongoing issue since March, and then the secretariat came in in August. We need to have a coordinated approach. We always have that at the beginning, and I felt that it was the best approach amongst other departments.
The Member alluded to me attacking the Premier. It's the Premier's job to defend the government. I'm asking and I'm pointing facts to the Premier. I'm not attacking the Premier personally. I'm attacking whoever the Premier's position is today. That's our job as MLAs, holding the government accountable. For that kind of money, we're going to throw at creating more jobs. Member says it's not a new department. It's a new established department. We never heard of it five years ago.
Mr. Chair, it's been stated in the House, as well, how much is one life worth? We have people dying on the streets. I can say that over and over. As soon as we walk out of here, we see people begging for homes, begging for food, and here, we're just going to pass $8.277 million like it's nothing. I have issues with that. I have people begging and pleading for housing, homeless people in my riding. We have lack of treatment services here in the Northwest Territories. We don't have any treatment centres in the Northwest Territories. After-care program lacking. Mr. Chair, it's very frustrating sitting here, but I just want to state my case that we're going to be voting on a motion here today. Obviously, the public will see how everybody votes today.
I just want to highlight some of the areas where I stand. Mr. Chair, I stand here before you in principle of this motion. The right thing to do for our territory, we should be redirecting that $8.2 million from the secretariat, the new money, to a co-investment fund or others that are highlighted, homelessness, housing, healthcare. It just makes sense, Mr. Chair.
Today, obviously, I will vote for housing for our most vulnerable, our homeless population in the North. I will vote for housing units which is the state of emergency across the North. That's a real story here. I vote for more treatment facilities, services, after-care programs, on-the-land programs. We are losing lives. As I stated earlier, over the weekend, I lost another young individual my son's age. That's hurting, Mr. Chair. It's hurting the community. It's hurting me as the representative for a region. We need to turn our attention to them. Let's save their lives. Their lives matter more than the secretariat.
Mr. Chair, I just want to close off by saying: I will not be, obviously, voting for the whole COVID secretariat supplementary that's before us, the $31 million. We must think about our most vulnerable people in the North. I'm not sure how else I can convince the Members, but they've already made up their mind. I'll be voting for the people of the North, to vote against the secretariat establishment, the $31 million plus overall next four years of $87 million towards the secretariat. That money should be better off spent elsewhere, where it's badly, badly needed. We hear it every day. We address it in the House almost every day. This secretariat just appeared, and it's before us now. On that motion, Mr. Chair, I would request a recorded vote, so I'd like to know where people stand, either with the government or for the people. Masi.
The Member for Monfwi, the Member for Great Slave, the Member for Deh Cho, the Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
All those opposed to the motion, please stand.
The Member for Nahendeh, the Member for Sahtu, the Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, the Member for Hay River North, the Member for Kam Lake, the Member for Frame Lake, the Member for Yellowknife North, the Member for Yellowknife South, the Member for Range Lake, the Member for Yellowknife Centre, the Member for Thebacha, the Member for Nunakput.
Anyone abstaining please stand. The motion: four in favour of the motion; 12 opposed to the motion; and no abstentions. The motion is defeated.
---Defeated
Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2020-2021, Department of Health and Social Services, COVID secretariat, not previously authorized, $31,677,000. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that $5 million not previously authorized be deleted from the Health and Social Services operations expenditures, COVID secretariat in the Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2020-2021. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Motion is on the floor and is being distributed. The motion is in order. To the motion. MLA for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll start by saying that I feel kind of silly that this is the second motion to remove what I see as somewhat of a random number from the COVID secretariat. I believe I have to bring this motion to distinguish from the previous one -- I'm not sure if I'm allowed to speak to the previous one. Sorry, Mr. Chair -- In that this is just me doing my job as an MLA. I believe the projections of what we're going to spend on isolation centres and what we will actually spend don't line up.
This is an attempt to give clear direction to Cabinet and to the Chief Public Health Officer that we need to save money in that area. I'm going to express a little frustration with the way that supplementary estimates are brought forward in that there is just one line item here for $31 million, and if I could bring forward a motion that was $5 million against the isolation centres, as my colleagues have said, if you're going to cut something, specify what you are doing. That is what I'm doing. I'm trying to save some money on the isolation centres as I believe this money could be better used for our communities and for vulnerable persons.
Unfortunately, the way that supplementary estimates work, they are just one big $31 million bundle. In general, the $88 million supplementary we have in front of us is the majority federal money. I'm happy to see we're getting that federal money. I'm happy with this Cabinet's response to getting that money. I'm happy with the COVID secretariat and the Chief Public Health Officer keeping us safe. I just believe there will be savings in the isolation centres and as a Member of the Legislative Assembly I don't like approving money that we won't spend. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. To the motion. Member for Hay River North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Rules of the Legislative Assembly, Rule 63 states that a formal motion that has been defeated cannot be introduced again in the same session. Essentially, we've just defeated a motion to remove a set amount from the bill. We just introduced another to remove a set amount from the bill. We could go through this dollar by dollar millions of times, so I don't believe that this motion is in order, Mr. Chair.
Does anybody else want to speak to the point of order? Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The Member raises a very valid point in that we can't simply keep bringing motions that reduce an amount by dollar by dollar because that could then be used as a tactic to delay. However, this is $3 million, which is a significant difference. The first motion was to remove all of the GNWT's portion of the COVID secretariat. This is a different amount. I believe that there is some room within the rules to bring a difference of $3 million. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. You're going to remember my riding before the end of the Assembly, I'm sure. Look, I want to defend my colleague's right to bring forward another motion for a reduction. I think the rationale for the reductions is quite different than the previous motion. I want to support his ability to bring it forward. That doesn't mean I support the motion itself. I would hope, too, that we're not going to end up in a game of bringing forward further amendments to arbitrarily reduce this line item in the supplementary appropriations. I think Members would lose patience in that. I'm prepared to go with whatever ruling you bring forward, Mr. Chair, but I think it should be considered a valid motion because the rationale is quite different. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. To the point of order. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I too, would like to support this. I believe that the intent of this motion is different than the last and the messaging is different than the last. I think that is important. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. To the point of order. At this time, we will take a five-minute break.
---SHORT RECESS
We will call the committee back to order. I have reviewed the relevant section. I am satisfied that the motion is sufficiently different, and I dismiss the point of order. We will resume debate on the motion. To the motion. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the sentiment of my colleague from Yellowknife North in bringing this forward. I feel that I have got sufficient commitments from the Minister of Finance that there is going to be regular financial variance reporting that is going to allow us to monitor. I will hold their feet to the fire in terms of expenditures of funding for COVID secretariat functions between now and the end of the year. I take the Premier's commitments at face value, again, that a process has been started to look at ways to reduce the self-isolation centre costs and to reduce the mental and social anguish that is associated with self-isolation, as well. I am convinced, with those commitments that have already been secured, that there are going to be very serious efforts towards reducing the cost and that there are also going to be additional efforts found to increase federal funding for these COVID secretariat functions. I appreciate the sentiments of my colleague, but picking an arbitrary figure of $5 million, I think it is quite arbitrary. I say that with all due respect to my colleague. It could have as easily been $6 million or $4 million. I just don't accept picking an arbitrary figure like this and reducing the budget for these important functions in that manner, so I will not be supporting the motion. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member. To the motion. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. I said earlier when I was speaking that necessity is the greatest inspiration for change. I think I totally messed up the quote, and it's actually, "necessity is the mother of invention." Same point, that we need to be innovative, and we need to inspire change to happen. We need to be constantly looking for ways to work smarter. One of the reasons that I like this idea is that, although I do believe that there have been some fair and significant commitments made from the other side in order to be constantly looking for ways to work smarter and including us on this side of the House, one of the things I like about this motion is that it forces the government to come back and ask for money when they run out. It allows us to then, at that point, re-evaluate how the COVID secretariat is working and to be able to be reflective of, hopefully, the positive changes that have been made to how the COVID secretariat is running. I would support this motion. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. To the motion. Member for Yellowknife North.
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm the first to admit that this is somewhat of an arbitrary number, but that's due to my frustrations in not being able to get what the projected cost savings in isolation centres are. I believe I've got a commitment that the $17 million we will approve tonight is not all going to be spent on isolation centres. We will reduce those costs. I hope I am sitting here on April 1st, and I look at what we spent in the various reporting, and it's $12 million, and we actually went and saved some money as I keep getting promised. I believe my duty as a Member is to approve money when there's a clear plan of how it will be spent.
To me, there's a projection issue here in what we are actually going to spend. I'm not happy that we're bringing multiple motions on the floor in the Committee of the Whole. I'm not happy that people are calling points of orders. I think this reflects a bit of a failure on the COVID secretariat rollout and to get support and to explain all the facts to the public and to Members. I think this fight, which is a supplementary full of federal money, really, it came down to not being rolled out properly. At the end of the day, I'm not in favour of passing $17 million for isolation centres when I have gotten pretty clear direction that we are going to go find ways to save that money. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Member.
Question.
Question has been called. All those in favour of the motion? All those opposed? All those abstaining? Motion defeated.
---Defeated
Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2020-2021, Department of Health and Social Services, COVID secretariat, not previously authorized, $31,677. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2020-2021, Department of Health and Social Services, health and social programs, not previously authorized, $22,094,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 2, 2020-2021, Department of Health and Social Services, long term care and continuing care, not previously authorized, $600,000. Does committee agree?
