The process would be to define the scope and the need, then come up with a plan and then cost it out and then come forward with a supplementary. That's the process of looking at some funding for this work. I don't know how much it's going to cost, but it's something that we can work with the Member on.
Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Nunakput.
Thank you, Madam Speaker. I thank the Minister for that. In 2015, when we got that road approved in this House, I could tell you, when we had the Prime Minister attend, in the day it was Stephen Harper who came and told us that we were getting the funds. The GNWT said it was the ITH, the Tuktoyaktuk to Inuvik Highway, but he corrected everybody that it's the Dempster Highway. It's an extension of the Dempster Highway. The funding that we get for the Dempster, it would be easier to keep it as just the Dempster Highway, not unless the community wants to rename the road. I think the investment of the federal government in regard to all the oil and gas they have up there, we could get out of debt. Just help me help you. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Thank you, Member. Minister, did you have any comments? Thank you. Oral questions. Member for Deh Cho.
Mahsi, Madam Speaker. The geography of the Northwest Territories is made up of the different representative land areas of First Nation, Metis, and Inuvialuit groups. This demographic representation should dictate how the Northwest Territories is governed, and for that matter, the workforce should be representative of the people the public service serves. My question to the Minister of Finance is: what commitment can the GNWT make to increase representation of the majority demographic of the Northwest Territories into the public service and, most notably, into senior management? Mahsi.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Speaker. There are quite a number of programs already in existence that are meant to support and encourage applicants to the public service and growth within the public service. One of the newer things that is being rolled out imminently is a framework that will address exactly the question of the Member, which is to create some targets department by department, including into the management ranks. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Mahsi to the Minister for her answer. I just want to say this with no prejudice or disrespect to my Yellowknife colleagues: what is noted is that the majority of the public service jobs are in Yellowknife, and the many new positions that are being created are being located in Yellowknife. Can the Minister explain why this arrangement continues with no regard for the outlying communities?
One of the other commitments of the 19th Legislative Assembly, of course, is to increase employment in regional centres. That is a commitment of the 19th Assembly and of this government and is certainly one that the Department of Finance also plays a role in. There are ongoing efforts to ensure that, when new positions are being created, efforts are made to consider whether they have to, in fact, be centralized in the capital, which sometimes is the case, depending on the nature of the work, depending on the nature of the role to be played. If it is not the case, then it need not be centred here. For instance, recently, ISSS had some positions created within the last year, and they were all located in Fort Smith because it was recognized that they did not have to be located in the capital. Those efforts are ongoing.
Mahsi to the Minister for that. I didn't hear of any positions going to the small communities. I recall a program in the GNWT that is to promote residents, or I believe only current employees, with an option to move up in the ranks. The program is the associate director program, where an employee can job shadow an existing director for two years to eventually take over as director. I believe it's in the event the director is planning on leaving the GNWT workforce. The program had real ambition as a succession planning success story. Can the Minister review the number of directors' positions in the GNWT and how many are actually First Nations?
I certainly do have those numbers and can provide those numbers to the House and to the Member. I don't have them at my fingertips, as I wasn't expecting to be called on to give those numbers here, but I would be more than happy to provide that. I just would note that, certainly, succession planning has been and remains a challenge for many organizations, and the government is no different. I certainly appreciate bringing some attention to the need to continue our succession planning here in the GNWT.
Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Deh Cho.
Mahsi, Madam Speaker. I know first-hand, working for the GNWT for over 11 years, that this program was in place. As an employee of the GNWT, I had a problem even gaining access to this program. Nobody wanted to recognize it. There may be many succession planning documents out there. The last one, I think, was the 2020 A Brighter Future, which probably expired this year, and no actions have ever been taken for any planning documents. Where I was getting just lip service -- and I'm telling you first-hand that I had problems even trying to move up within the GNWT. I wonder if the Minister can commit to reviewing the associate director program and ensure that these will be filled by First Nations residents of the Northwest Territories? Mahsi.
I will certainly commit to reviewing the succession planning that is under way within the GNWT. As I have indicated at the beginning of the Member's questions, the direction right now is to develop the Indigenous framework, have that go department by department, and create some targets that will then be applicable to each department. Within that, of course, it includes the need for succession planning, the need for those targets to include management, so I will make the commitment that we are going to look at those targets. I want to provide some flexibility that we aren't necessarily doing that with a succession planning program that may no longer, as the Member has pointed out, be the one that is at the forefront. Yes, again, the commitment is to make sure that we're putting the right targets in and that the targets include senior management. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Thebacha.
Madam Speaker, the Minister must be very firm with all of the senior management within the government to ensure that the Affirmative Action Policy is followed. Mechanisms must be put in place to address the gaps, and if not followed, there has to be a process of meaningful appeals with a neutral panel and very concise direction. Does the Minister agree? Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Speaker. I certainly would agree that there should be a meaningful appeal process. There are, indeed, staffing appeals. They are conducted by staffing review officers who are, in fact, outside of the government and appointed by me as the Minister responsible for the public service. That flows from the fact that, yes, simply put, I agree that there has to be a proper, fair, and neutral appeals process. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
The Minister must also be able to discipline those senior managers who are not following the policy. This should be done through job evaluations or disciplinary letters on their work files. Strong, decisive action must be taken to address this issue. Does the Minister agree?
I certainly would agree that every department, through its deputy minister, will need to take responsibility to help ensure that the GNWT continues to do better in terms of what we're doing to follow the Affirmative Action Policy. The goal here is to have a representative workforce. The Affirmative Action Policy is one of the tools that we use to achieve that. However, Madam Speaker, the way that we will do that through deputy ministers is by ensuring that there are some clear targets and a clear plan for each of them within their department that they can implement and that that can then be followed through on to ensure that they are then in turn each doing that.
The Minister has an ability to make a difference on this whole file. Leadership must be shown at the top in order to advance the Government of the Northwest Territories' affirmative action to its fullness. Does the Minister agree?
I could not agree more. It has to start from the top, and that includes, obviously, this House; it includes each Minister in their responsibility for their departments; and it includes each deputy minister within their departments. That is one of the hopes of the framework is that it will now create meaningful targets that are department-specific and something that can actually be followed and looked at so that we know that it's not just the Minister responsible for a public service who has to be responsible for this but that every department, every Minister, and every deputy minister is going to be responsible and know exactly what they are responsible for.
Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Thebacha.
Madam Speaker, there can be no more gaps, no excuses, no nepotism, no conflicts of interest, no hiring our friends, no tailoring job descriptions to match certain people's resumes, only strictly professional, neutral decisions based on qualifications. Will the Minister commit to changing the way senior management and human resource superintendents apply the Affirmative Action Policy to accomplish its original intent? Thank you, Madam Speaker.
What I want to commit to doing is ensuring that every department, in the chain of hiring that goes through that department in cooperation and in conjunction with staff from human resources, is indeed taking responsibility to ensure a representative public service and indeed is taking responsibility to follow the Affirmative Action Policy but also to be conscious of their own biases and act in such a way that we are not relying on them. The point of human resources is to try to create a system and a process that is fair, that is open, and that acknowledges that human beings will naturally at times have to look outside of themselves and have to have structures and processes to help them act without bias, to help them act in a neutral way to accomplish exactly what it is that the Member is asking me. I am certainly going to commit to ensuring that, again, we have those processes, that clear target, and something that works and is applicable to each and every department throughout that chain. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you, Madam Speaker. My questions today are for the Premier. I am wondering if the Premier can tell me what specific direction she has given to the deputy ministers of each GNWT department to support building a representative workforce. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Madam Premier.
Thank you, Madam Speaker. This government is committed to ensuring that we adhere to the Affirmative Action Policy. We have heard it for many, many years, and it's time to make sure that we do work on that. Deputy ministers are accountable for all of the hiring within their departments. They might not do it directly, but they are accountable for it.
Right now, as stated in the opening statement from the Minister's statement, the Department of Finance is currently developing a GNWT Indigenous recruitment and retention framework. Once that is done, this will be complemented by department-specific plans, as stated by the Minister, that set Indigenous representation targets and recruitment plans for each individual department. Then, these representation targets will be set for deputy ministers on an annual basis. Madam Speaker, every year, there is an annual evaluation of deputy ministers. Once this work is done, this accountability for our Affirmative Action Policy will be part of the evaluation framework that I conduct with the deputy ministers going forward. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
I am very excited to hear about the Indigenous framework that the GNWT is currently working on, but does this mean that there is currently no direction given to deputy ministers currently sitting at the heads of departments, waiting for this framework to be established?
Absolutely not. The Affirmative Action Policy, deputy ministers are aware that this is a priority of this government, and they are aware that they will be evaluated when it comes up. They are aware that this is coming.
I am wondering if the current Cabinet will commit to reviewing the Affirmative Action Policy over the course of this term.
Absolutely. We will make a commitment to reviewing the Affirmative Action Policy within the term of this government.
Thank you, Madam Premier. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. This past spring, the GNWT committed to a Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls calls for justice action plan. I am wondering if the GNWT's plan will include an internal focus to shift the internal culture of the GNWT. Thank you.
I would like to defer that to the Minister responsible for the Status of Women or the Minister of Finance. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Thank you. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Speaker. That does involve both of those two hats coming together. The action plan that is going to be developed in response to the national inquiry is one that needs to, by the nature of what it is, involve a lot of engagement with Indigenous governments, with outside stakeholders, with members of the public, as well as members of the GNWT internally. As far as what will necessary be in that plan, that remains to be seen, subject to all that process.
That said, Madam Speaker, with respect to the corporate culture, the culture of the GNWT, absolutely. One of the goals of doing so is that it should and will change the culture of the GNWT as we go through that process. As well, similarly, the Indigenous framework that I have been speaking about today I hope will also be something that provides a shift and a change in mindset and a change in the way people look creatively at. For example, if somebody does not quite meet a cut-off target on an interview question, are there ways that they can look at that and question why somebody may not have done that?
In addition to that, one last comment, is that one of the other things that is coming out from the Department of Finance quite imminently is a new Indigenous cultural awareness and sensitivity training. This is an update, the first update in quite a few, many, years around the kind of training that all GNWT employees are going to be required to attend. Again, the goal of that is to culture-change and to change all of our mindsets and to increase everyone's awareness. I think there are quite a number of ways in which we do indeed want to change, change in culture, and evolve our culture and bring it forward to really be a leader in Canada. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
Thank you, Minister of Finance. Oral questions. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister and I both received an email recently in which the sender indicated that, in 2010, the pay gap between Indigenous and non-Indigenous GNWT employees was reported as $20,000 annually. Can the Minister tell me if the public service annual report still contains information regarding the distribution of salaries between P1s, P2s, and P3s, and if not, why not? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Speaker. The report that will be tabled later today does not include that same documentation or data that was back in 2010. As for the evolution in the last 10 years of the report, I will have to find out what that evolution is. Thank you, Madam Speaker.
It's my understanding that the GNWT considers "Indigenous non-Aboriginal" as a distinct category in its HR policies. Can the Minister please explain to us what this means and how this designation is incorporated into GNWT statistics around meeting affirmative action goals?
With respect to management positions or non-traditional positions, there are different designations depending on a person's status. Priority 1A is for Indigenous Aboriginal persons, so persons who are both born in the Northwest Territories and who have an Indigenous background, and female. Then priority 1B is the same categorizing of being Indigenous and Aboriginal but male. Number two is resident women. Number three is Indigenous non-Aboriginal persons or resident disabled persons. Last, there is no priority. With respect to all other competitions, again, that's the non-management competitions and things that are in the non-traditional category, this is where you get your P1 or priority one, which is Indigenous Aboriginal persons; P2 which is Indigenous non-Aboriginal, in other words, someone born in the Northwest Territories but not of Indigenous descent; and then there is no priority. All of those different categories are considered in the data that gets gathered up by human resources to evaluate the nature of our public service.
I've had numerous friends and constituents discuss with me their stories of qualified, educated, Indigenous Aboriginal candidates, or P1s, who are unable to advance within their departments, including in the Minister's own. Can the Minister please commit to performing a review of her own department's hiring and looking for the circles of friends in senior management that are often a barrier to the advancement of Indigenous candidates or for advancing complaints under her HR policies?
Since taking on the portfolio of the Department of Finance, one of the most frequent things that comes to my office from MLAs and from members of the public comes in around staffing and concerns around staffing processes and a desire to ensure fairness in staffing process, and ensuring that the Affirmative Action Policy is properly being followed. Madam Speaker, in the vast majority of the cases that come forward when they are investigated, in fact, the policies have been applied and have been followed, and yet, the stories and the concerns keep coming. There is some sort of disconnect where people are applying and going through these processes and feeling that they're not being heard, and yet, the application of the process itself is being followed.
That is exactly the conversation that I have had directly with human resources. Human resources works hard and cares deeply about being a representative public service. To have these kinds of stories continue to come forward is not what anybody wants. It's not what the staff that work there want; it's not what they are working towards. Yes, I absolutely am committing to the fact there is, again, the framework approach that we're trying to utilize is meant to be one that's going to give each department looking at what are the barriers, what are the problems in the department. Is it a front end of recruitment? Is it at the advancement? Is it in succession planning? Is it in the structure of the interview? Is it in the job description? The answers might be different department by department. I want to ensure that the Member won't have to hear all those stories all over again. That is exactly the point of what we are doing with framework.
