Mr. Speaker, I wish to table the following document: "Public Accounts 2019-2020, Sections I, II, III and IV." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Minister. Tabling of documents. Minister responsible for the Workers' Safety and Compensation Commission.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I wish to table the following two documents: "Workers' Safety and Compensation Commission Northwest Territories and Nunavut Corporate Plan 2021;" and "Workers' Advisor Office of the Northwest Territories and Nunavut 2020 Annual Report." Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I now the Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of committee? Mr. Norn.
Marsi cho, Madam Chair. Committee wishes to review Tabled Document 286-19(2): Main Estimates 2021-2022, for the Department of Finance. Marsi cho.
Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. We will take a short recess and resume.
---SHORT RECESS
I call committee back to order. Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 286-19(2), Main Estimates 2021-2022. The committee has agreed to forego general comments on the tabled document but will make comments on each department. The committee has agreed to begin with the Department of Finance. Does the Minister of Finance have any opening remarks?
Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. I am pleased to present the 2021-2022 Main Estimates for the Department of Finance. Overall, the department's estimates propose an increase of $15.2 million or 5.3 percent over the main estimates of 2020-2021. These estimates support the mandate objectives for the Department of Finance while continuing to meet the GNWT's fiscal objectives to prioritize responsible and strategic spending. Highlights of these proposed estimates include:
$76.8 million in contribution funding to the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation; and
$8.4 million to increase Carbon Tax Offset rebates provided to NWT residents and businesses to offset the impact of increasing the Carbon Tax to $40 per tonne of greenhouse gas emissions on July 1, 2021.
The department's 2021-2022 Main Estimates reflect the transfer of procurement shared services from the Department of Infrastructure to the Department of Finance. These estimates continue to support the priorities of the 19th Legislative Assembly by:
ensuring government procurement maximizes benefits to residents and businesses by supporting the GNWT's ongoing procurement review;
streamlining the financial processing for all GNWT departments and the NWT Health and Social Services authorities;
supporting and managing the GNWT's information security and technology resources; and
ensuring that GNWT departments have the support they need to manage their human and financial resources appropriately.
That concludes my opening remarks. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Minister. Do you wish to bring witnesses into the House?
Yes, please, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Would the Minister please introduce her witnesses?
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am pleased to introduce Sandy Kalgutkar, deputy minister of Finance and secretary to the Financial Management Board, and also Rick Wind, chief information officer.
Thank you, and welcome. We will now proceed with a review of the borrowing plan, and then we will go into departmental finance. The committee has agreed to forego general comments and will proceed with the detail contained in the tabled document. Committee, please turn to the borrowing plan on the second tab. Does committee have questions? It's the second tab at the beginning of your binder. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I see that we are adding quite a bit of debt this year once again. Can I just get current projections of when we are expected to hit our debt ceiling? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That's not reflected in the document. That is included in the main estimates. I believe the year that we are looking at right now would be in 2023-2024 as a projection. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Did you want your staff to add anything?
I have confirmed that is correct. That's not in the document here before us. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Deputy Minister Kalgutkar.
Thank you, Madam Chair. What's before us is the borrowing plan for the 2021-2022 fiscal year. What the Member, I believe, is asking is when we are projecting to exceed our borrowing limit in a future year, and I believe the fiscal framework that we provided as part of our fiscal update shows that we are going to be slightly over in the 2023-2024 fiscal year. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Right now, if we're on projection to hit that, and a bad forest fire season costs us $50 million, we don't want to ever be in a position where we are going to exceed our borrowing limit. When I hear that that projection takes us to the life of this Assembly, exceeding it, does the Minister of Finance have a plan or specifically a number that we want to be below our borrowing limit at the end of this Assembly? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. With respect to a plan, there are two sides to the coin, Madam Chair. Firstly, we need to get a better handle and control on the expenditures to ensure that expenditures don't continue to rise when revenues remain stagnant. To that effect, there are a number of things that are under way. I know there has been talk already about government renewal as an opportunity to look more carefully at the creation of each departmental budget and ensure that each one is utilizing the resources that we have most efficiently as possible. There are other steps under way, Madam Chair. For example, a significant one is in Health and Social Services authority having a fiscal sustainability plan, as well. Those are two areas, two significant areas, to get the expenditure side under control.
Madam Chair, the other side of the equation, of course, is to increase the revenues of the GNWT which, itself, can have different pathways, but the particular approach that I think we are looking at right now is ways of increasing growth within the economy, which would, of course, then increase the revenues through all of the different revenue streams that come in through own source revenues. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. What I would like to see in the fiscal strategy is a number, a kind of a hard stop of where we are going to be at the end of this Assembly. Right now, the projection is that we're going to be over our debt wall. I recognize what the Minister said there, that there's a number of plans in the works and we're looking at revenues. I am concerned that I am passing a budget with adding more debt, and I am on the projection to pass, succeed a debt limit that does not leave us any room for emergencies. When all that work is done and when we do the new fiscal management, when will we get a new projection of our debt that is below the debt ceiling? Perhaps, I'll try that question. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the projections obviously do get -- I think the Members will appreciate that they are being done continually, and particularly during the COVID-19 pandemic, they were being redone every so many months. That will continue throughout the time of the pandemic because the pandemic has impacted on the government's position quite significantly, which is in no short order why we wound up with increasing the borrowing limit when we did in the first place.
I think at this point, Madam Chair, it would be appropriate to say that we will continue to do those updates periodically. Again, back in the spring session, we'll be back with another fiscal update at that time, and by which point, hopefully, there'll be a better sense of what's happening economically across Canada, across the world, and with respect to COVID-19's impacts thereon.
Broadly speaking, the Department of Finance and ECE are expecting between now and the time of business plans for next year to go through the government renewal process, and I will have more information on the state of the Health and Social Services position. I think by the time we are doing, if not the spring update, then certainly by the fall update, at that point, I am hopeful that will be in a position to give a better projection of where we are at, and hopefully one that's showing a number under the borrowing limit. If we're not, then at that point, to be at least having a sense of when that next update might come. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to switch gears here to the lines here in our P3 debt. Perhaps I could have the Minister explain to me a little about how we account for P3 debt. I note that, let's take one project, the Tlicho All-Season Road here. The debt went from $74 million to $128 million, but I believe the total cost of that project is $400 million over 30 years. Can I have someone explain to me how P3 debt shows up in regards to the total debt limit of the GNWT? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am going to propose to have that question directed to the deputy minister, please.
Thank you. Deputy Minister Kalgutkar.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The P3 debt is the portion of the project that is being financed by the private sector partner, and what gets accumulated as part of that debt is depending on how fast the project progresses. As the Tlicho All-Season Road gets near completion, we recognize a portion of that debt on our books. The full value of the P3 debt related to that project, I think it is slightly over $150 or $160 million. It's not the full value of the $400 million, just like the full value of the hospital bed is not reflective of the total cost of the project. It's just a portion that is financed by the private sector. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, deputy minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Perhaps, I could just ask one more question of that. Obviously, a key factor in the total cost of any P3 is the contract and the maintenance contract. If we have a deal with the private sector to pay them X amount of dollars each year under the P3, does that show up as our debt, the contractual obligation? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Perhaps, I'll just let the deputy minister continue on the explanation on the P3s, please.
Thank you. Deputy Minister Kalgutkar.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The total contractual obligation shows up as a note disclosure. I don't recall the note offhand, but the total value of the contract shows up in our public hands. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, deputy minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
We had this question, kind of lengthy conversation with the Auditor General about P3s, and I know there's new P3 public accounting standards coming out and that office is trying to deal with this issue of how to track P3 debts and ongoing contractual obligations, especially when you get into such large numbers over such a long period of time in the debts. Does the Department of Finance foresee any changes arising from public accounting standards to P3s that will ultimately affect what our total debt is listed to, listed as here in relation to P3s? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The simple answer, Madam Chair, is no, and the Department of Finance, I know we also have an opportunity to meet with the Auditor General's office and discuss the accounting standards and how they impact debts. I have had that conversation now on a couple of occasions, and I'm not anticipating anything to have significant change here, no.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
