Thank you, Madam Chair. I am just looking at the line for fees and payments, how in the actuals it was at the $9,000, and then it has gone up. I notice a few times we had actuals which were quite a bit lower, which makes sense given COVID. However, could the Minister speak to whether or not there was any exercise done to look at perhaps not going back to the original budgets before and doing a bit of a sort of fat-cutting or leaning of budgets now that COVID has sort of changed the operating world we are in? Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am pleased to have the question. That is really in part one of the directions we may wind up going in doing government renewal because, rather than sort of stepping in and "leaning," to use that term, or cutting automatically without knowing what, in fact, trends are, what, in fact, the impacts or outcomes of the COVID-19 pandemic will be into the future, the preferred approach at this point is to do something that is methodical, to do something that is value-based, and to do something that will actually gather up evidence in a way that allows us to make decisions that are, in fact, evidence-based.
However, I certainly appreciate the fact that we are all wanting to be alive to the changes that are likely to come from COVID-19 without necessarily knowing what, in fact, those final changes will be. Simply to highlight again, I am alive to that, to the conversation, to the issue, and I do think that what these impacts are going to be is going to come out in part probably over a short course of time and then also over a longer period of time as things move on. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you. I do appreciate that the Minister is cautious about wanting to not take things away that later on are not going to be able to be added back or easily added back. However, I do know that there have to be some very obvious things that are not going to be coming back for the next year, let alone two to three or four years after that, so I kind of wish or I do wish that the government had taken both of the approaches, really. My comment on that is that -- you are waving at me; I have lost my train of thought -- that there should have been. Yes, so my question would be: Would the Minister commit to coming back to us when a lot of this money is not spent and seek Members' input into how that money is being spent? Because it does really come across as continuing to keep money in the budget that then Cabinet can make decisions as to where it goes or departments can make decisions as to where it goes without it coming through the Members for input. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, I have actually spoken to the department about the fact that there is a live discussion happening right now with Members of the Legislative Assembly about where does money go when it does not get utilized in a budget, so I am alive that that's an issue. It is rightfully an issue, and so I will certainly commit that we have to come back and do a better job of that. I am hesitant in saying that. There are times where there may be a small amount that gets moved from if there is an unfunded position and then -- I am trying to think of a good example right now, off the top of my head, Madam Chair, and it is not coming to me. However, some flexibility is needed. Some flexibility is appropriate. At the same time, as I said, I am very alive to it. Exactly the issue that is being raised by the Member is not new to me and I think is one that is coming up more and more, particularly in a year when we have seen such changes. I am going to find a way to come back to committee. I just need to figure out exactly how that is going to look so that it's functional and meaningful.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Great Slave.
I think I heard a commitment in there to ask us for our inputs on spending the extra money, so I am happy with that. Those are all my questions. Thanks.
Thank you, Member for Great Slave. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Marsi cho, Madam Chair. I am just looking at page 141 here. I know that it's not a big difference. I apologize if another Member asked about this. There are the actuals there, and it's a little bit of a difference there, $37,000 and then $83,000. Can the Minister just explain that difference? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Sorry, I'm not seeing a $37,000 line item. Is this under contract services, Madam Chair? I believe that is the line item that we are looking at. The actuals for 2019-2020 were at $37,000. The set amount of budget for contract services 2020-2021, as well as now, 2021-2022, is $83,000, Madam Chair. There would have been a freeze back in 2019-2020 at the time of the election, and that would have had a significant impact on contract services that year, a difference of $46,000.
Thank you, Minister. Member.
Marsi cho, Madam Chair. Thank you for that response. Also, for purchased services, there is a bit of difference there. It's almost double from the actuals. Can the Minister explain that difference, as well? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The item in purchased services is with respect to telecommunications services. There have been some updates to phone systems over the last couple of years, and as such, there have been some cost savings. That is an item that has not yet seen itself reflected in budgets. I certainly could commit to confirming whether or not that cost savings is one that will need to be reflected over time. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member.
Marsi cho, Madam Chair. A little bit down the road, I'll ask the Minister how we can improve the communications at Lutselk'e because it's not too good there right now. I did have another question, but I'll just ask to be placed back in the queue. I lost my train of thought. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thanks. Are there any further questions? Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am looking at the Department of Finance's business plan, and it said that the Public Service Act was scheduled for introduction in 2020, quarter four. That did not occur. Could I get a sense of when we will see the Public Service Act? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. At this point, we are under a notice to bargain and, as such, can't be making any changes to the Public Service Act. We will take that one step at a time at this stage. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That's unfortunate. We seem to be stuck in this never-ending cycle of getting a notice to bargain and then bargaining taking years so we can never amend the Public Service Act, and then we get another notice to bargain.
Is it possible to seek agreement from the union to bring the act forward even while there is a notice of bargain or to make the change that allows us to bring the act forward despite that happening? I'm just trying to see if there is a workaround with the union's consent because they themselves have identified some changes that that they would like for the Public Service Act. I am hoping that perhaps there is a path forward to do this somehow, or is that just legislatively prohibited so we can't change the legislation? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, certainly, work can continue with the consent of the union. We only just received the notice of bargain, I was going to say last month, but not quite; I believe it was in December. It hasn't been that long since that's occurred. I do very much believe in the importance of maintaining a good working relationship with the union, so any next step would have to involve consulting with them before any kind of other commitments could be made.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am also looking at the department's business plan, and I see that this May-June session, we were supposed to see the Status of Women Act updated. I don't believe we have seen the legislative proposal for that yet, but can I just get confirmation of whether that work is on track? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That item, Madam Chair, falls under the women's directorate and the Minister responsible for the Status of Women. I expect that the committee's position on the best location for that is, in fact, that it should be over in the executive and not in finance, Madam Chair. Meanwhile, it just so happens that, as Minister responsible for the Status of Women, I can say that there is work under way on the act, and I can commit to getting confirmation of whether or not it will be on target to be introduced as planned. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Are there any further questions under the directorate? Seeing none, please turn to page 141. Finance, directorate, operations expenditures summary, 2021-2022 Main Estimates, $82,789,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. We will take a five-minute break.
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Page 144, with information items on page 146. Questions? Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. In the department's business plan and in the mandate, there are a number of issues related to increasing capacity in the healthcare system, and there is a specific health recruitment unit. Can I just get clarification whether that lies in the Department of Finance HR or in Health and Social Services? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The health recruitment unit that is being described is a joint partnership between the Department of Health and Social Services and the human resources branch of the Department of Finance. They have the expertise in terms of what is actually required and the human resources has the expertise in terms of human resources recruitment and retention planning, so yes, it is both, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. I recognize that reconciling human resources into one area in the GNWT makes sense, but I think, when I speak to a lot of people in the health authorities, there has been frustration in the past with human resources and there has been frustration about having not-nurses hire other nurses and not having healthcare professionals having had that expertise. I recognize that's exactly what this joint unit is trying to remedy, but is there any consideration to giving the human resource capacity back to the health authority? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. By doing this joint project, that is really meant to alleviate both sides of a concern, which is to ensure that staffing processes remain fair and compliant with best practices and with transparent processes, while also ensuring the expertise within the client department, in this case the health department. Hopefully, if the unit does achieve the targets that are being set to increase recruitment and retention of healthcare workers, then perhaps that is a question that I will be coming back to in time as to, if this is, in fact, successful, what that might mean for others who may have staffing challenges. For now, hopefully we are, in fact, accomplishing exactly what the Member has identified as a challenge. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Are there any other questions? Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Marsi cho, Madam Chair. I had a quick question about labour relations in the Public Service Act. Is it okay if I ask that question here, Madam Chair? Marsi cho, Madam Chair. I know a lot of my colleagues here on this side, we talk about LPs and moving things along. We don't want to have what happened in the last Assembly where they had a whole slew of last-minute legislation that we had to go through, and I started to see a trend here where we're kind of slipping on some of our LPs, in my opinion. Just looking at the Public Service Act here, can the Minister just give us an update on how that's coming along and just give us some timelines of when we can expect to see some of this LP come along through the House? Marsi cho.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. This is a particular act where there had been quite a lot of work done a few years ago, back in 2017, and a fair bit of engagement done with employees and stakeholders, and there were already materials being drafted under a "what we heard" type of approach. Of course, an update was done last summer, again, as an update, not a complete full further review or survey but an update to the work that was done only two or three years before that, and consultations throughout with the union, the UNW, as well.
However, as I just mentioned earlier, it was on track and a lot of work was being done, but then, when we do receive the notice to bargain, there does need to be a pause. As I mentioned earlier, it is possible, if both parties are willing, to continue ongoing engagement and work toward getting materials ready, but having just received the notice of bargain right before, if I'm not mistaken, the winter break, the winter shutdown, I realize that's now roughly a month ago or just a little over a month ago. What I will do is follow up and ensure that we are taking steps to have that engagement. It may well be that it is simply not going to be feasible, while the negotiations for collective agreement are under way, to advance that work, and that might be quite reasonable for either party to take that position. Nonetheless, because of the work that has been done a few years ago and this summer, whether it's by agreement or whether it's at the conclusion of a new collective agreement, I'm confident we will get this work back on track. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Marsi cho, Madam Chair. Thank you for that little bit of clarity, there. What I'm thinking right now is if the Minister could give us some just rough timeline, given what she just explained to me, and how this would be rolled out to the eventual introduction of the bill? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't have a date in front of me, and I'm sure that's because it's dependent somewhat on what happens with collective bargaining. What I will commit to doing is perhaps doing a bit of an either/or and trying to come up with a sense of what some different timelines might look like, subject to again the different ways that this might unfold.
Again, I want to emphasize the importance of having a conversation, having a consultation with the union. They're a key party in this work and in this process, so wanting to ensure again that that we look at whether we do it right now on consent, whether we maybe collectively agree to hold off until the bargaining process is done, that I can commit to figuring out what those different options will look like. Then I will get back to committee with what the results of that would be and what the impacts on a timeline will be from either scenario.
