Thank you, Mr. Wind. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, that does help. I am trying my best to understand this area because I think it actually does not get often the oversight it needs. IT projects are notorious for going over budget, and software is very expensive. It's one of those areas where we spend millions and millions of dollars. I think many people's eyes just glaze over when it starts getting talked about, but it is not an insignificant part of the budget, both finances, procurement of software, and the ultimate management through this ISSS. I have spoken previously to the Minister about having an open data portal. Sorry. Also, in my list of areas that I forgot to mention, there is the NWT statistician, who is another office I often go to when I want to try to get some information about where information is. I believe ultimately there is a lot of work to do in kind of compiling this, what all the various departments have and the various roles and maybe having it in a very nice, searchable, open data portal. That is my dream. Can I get an update from the Minister on that work and if and when we can expect to see an open data portal? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. There certainly was an expectation. I had an expectation that we would bringing some of our bundles of services online under the eServices portal this month or imminently. I think that, in fact, there has been identified a need to push that date back a little bit, but again, since we have the chief information officer here, I might ask him to give us the latest update, please.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Wind.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We have made some work on the open data portal. We have actually landed on the core technology that we'll use to implement the open data portal. The work that we still need to do before we can actually develop the portal and implement it is related to the data management framework that we've identified within the business plan to do some work.
We have taken that plan back through the Open Government Steering Committee that I've spoken to in the past, which is chaired by myself and by an assistant deputy minister within IEA. That work is really going to set the guardrails for how the government will manage data and information and publish it through the portal. That's an important piece that has to happen alongside the development of the portal, or we will run the risk of launching a portal that has no data and doesn't necessarily deliver the value. That's the big body of work, and there will be an interdepartmental working group to work with us on that, that will comprise members, for example, of the Bureau of Statistics, population health, certainly Environment and Natural Resources, and other very heavy data-dependent departments to develop that framework. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Wind. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm happy to hear that, and I recognize that one step, as I said previously, is getting the portal. The whole other step is populating it, and how we actually start to publish and release our data. I have a few more questions about the eServices portal in that I think we've got some of the low-hanging fruit in fishing licences, the DVM, which is already online, kind of moving that into one place. I believe there are going to be healthcare cards, marriage certificates; some basic information was in there.
Ultimately, what I would really like is this information shared services to direct departments to get all of their applications online into one portal. I'm thinking Housing Corporation, Income Assistance, the kinds of social services programs where we are constantly having to go bring people into offices, and I know my constituency assistants are filling out forms all the time. I guess that work is much harder, but I think it is much more valuable for the kind of work, if you can get that onto an eServices portal. Can the Minister speak to how this ultimately could expand to get other departments to have online applications for their services? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I also think that, frankly, eServices and the work of ISSS is perhaps under-highlighted. It is not by accident that the chief information officer is with us today. The Member is right, that the first couple of bundles do include, for example, the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Services, fishing licenses, healthcare cards, applications and renewals of some of the vital statistics items, so those are examples of the first two rounds of items that are going to be coming.
As for the rest, Mr. Wind has already mentioned the working group that will be existing that is cross-departmental, meant to be exactly that, to start looking at information that is required and utilized across departments, so that it will be a whole-of-government approach and one that really does look, again, across all the departments. I don't know that the Department of Finance gets to direct anybody to do anything per se, but again, by having that departmental working group and highlighting the importance of the work here, I think that we will be ultimately achieving the goal that is being sought. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes. I wish that perhaps the chief information officer could direct people or the Department of Finance could direct departments. I'm going to go on a bit of a tangent here about digital government. Essentially, there are governments where all of your information is stored in one area, and you log on to fill out an income assistance form, and all of the government data that it is already holding populates the form automatically. Actually, some of those governments have policies that they can never ask you for a piece of information twice. They can never ask you what your birth date is on a second form, once you have given it and put it into a portal. I don't know how often I am helping constituents duplicate and fill out forms for seven different departments over seven different areas. Other governments have figured this out. They have figured out how to do this in eServices portals. I recognize it takes time and money to get it done, but the cost savings are immense to governments. The headaches are saved. My question for the Minister is: Is there a way to kick some of this eServices work up to the Cabinet table and give authority to kind of centralize this and really get it moving? Because I think there is nothing but opportunity here. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Did you have any follow-up comments, Minister?
Thank you, Madam Chair. Only to acknowledge that this isn't in the priority document that we came up with as a government or as a collective 19 Members, but certainly all of us have to assist constituents. Those of us in Cabinet have to receive the requests from constituents, so the challenges being discussed or presented by the Member are not lost, I don't think, on anyone here, and they are certainly not lost on me. As I said, I also agree that the eServices work is very exciting and, yes, it was not by accident that I wanted to make sure that we had the chief information officer here because I do think it's important to have this dialogue and this conversation. That's the kind of thing that will help advance the work. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Are there any further questions under the information system shared services from Members? Seeing no further questions, please turn to page 148, Finance, information system shared services, operations expenditure summary, 2021-2022 Main Estimates, $22,883,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. We will now move into management board secretariat, beginning on page 150, with information items on page 154. I am just going to remind Members that we are going to be having a hard stop at six o'clock, so get your questions and answers to the point, shorten them just to the point. Thank you. Questions to the management board secretariat from Members? Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Two of the line items in here under the grants section are the aviation sector support and the wage top-up, both of which were very well received from the business community. I know that they were both received as contributions from the federal government, and I am wondering if the Department of Finance is talking with the federal government to continue that, given that, one, aviation isn't going to continue, and two, for the wage top-up, the wages that people are receiving, topping them up to $18 an hour is a bare minimum of something that we need to be doing in the Northwest Territories and something that would be wonderful to be able to continue for the people of the Northwest Territories. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Madam Chair, you said short questions. The short answer is, yes, we are continuing the conversations with Transport Canada around the aviation sector support. I don't have anything more to say yet, other than just that. We are working on, indeed, a third phase that would, I hope, be similar in nature to a partnership in terms of Transport Canada and the GNWT providing supports. With respect to the cost of living and the wage top-up specifically, that is still ongoing right now. Those funds have not been exhausted. As for the specific timeline over which that will be unfolded, I don't have an update offhand, but I can certainly provide committee with an update as to where those funds are at. Any longer-term changes to wages and wage top-ups would probably go over to ECE. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I'll be sure to ask the Minister some of those questions tomorrow. As far as the Mackenzie Valley fibre link and the cost of Internet, the Department of Finance, in my understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, sets the wholesale rate for Internet throughout the Northwest Territories using the infrastructure, and then companies come in and add on a retail rate for that. Something we hear about quite often from our constituents is the cost of Internet and the service that is provided. I'm wondering if the GNWT is, at all, discussing the wholesale rate and how they can work with Internet service providers to reduce the cost of Internet throughout the Northwest Territories. Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Internet service providers and Internet rates are quite heavily regulated in the Northwest Territories by CRTC. Certainly, we do have, at the Department of Finance, ongoing discussions with the major players in the industry here, but as I say, a lot of that is going to depend on the work that is being done with CRTC and not with GNWT specifically. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Firstly, can I get a sense of how many people have accessed the NWT Wage Top-Up Program? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am sure I do have those numbers. I just may not have them in front of me right now. Perhaps I will turn it over to the deputy minister. He may have those numbers at his fingertips.
Deputy minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. To date, we have about 390 applicants that have applied for the program. We have processed 376 of those applications. We are still in the process of processing the rest right now. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, deputy minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Can I just get clarification: Those 390 applicants would be employers; do we have a sense of how many actual people are getting their paycheques topped up right now? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I did not make the effort to hunt for those documents. Let me see if the deputy minister happens to know that detail, as well. Thank you.
Deputy minister.
Those are 391 applicants based on, I believe, about 85 employers. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I believe I had different numbers than that, but I will clarify if the department could get back. This is one of those budget lines that I find extremely frustrating that, in passing this budget, we are going to give all of our low wage workers, who we deemed essential, a pay cut. Many of them were making $18 an hour, and they'll go back down to $13.86, which is less than you make on income assistance. I have a number of constituents who will be getting a pay cut the minute we pass this budget. My dream would be that I flip over to ECE, and we have some sort of increase to employment subsidies. I will have those questions for the Minister tomorrow.
Can we make sure that we don't just simply give this money out and then lose the information? Is there going to be some sort of reporting at the conclusion of this about how many people accessed the money in what sectors? I think this is extremely valuable information, that there are hundreds of people in our work force who make less than $18 an hour, and we essentially decided to top up their wages and now are removing that. Is there any sort of final reporting on this that could be provided when it is concluded? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. This is money that we were fortunate to receive from the Government of Canada. It wasn't entirely an item that was able to be funded from within the GNWT's own-source revenue streams. It was a COVID-specific program introduced by the Government of Canada. To be quite honest, yes, certainly, I would say that the information that we are gathering about who is applying and which sectors they are from, I would see no reason why that would simply disappear.
One other note I would make is that it has actually been difficult to spend all of it insofar as there are not that many people making under the $18 an hour threshold. I don't know what that says to the nature of things in the Northwest Territories. It certainly does accord with the information in the economic update around our wages and income earned in the Northwest Territories generally, but the short answer is we will certainly not be getting rid of data. That's not the direction we are going in. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am looking at the Department of Finance's website on this. It says 1,943 individuals have benefited from this program, which is the number I had in my head, which is a much more significant percentage of our work force. I believe our work force, if that's more accurate, is about 2,000 workers who make under $18 an hour, which is below living wage, which means 2,000 working people live in poverty. Can I just get a confirmation of how many people have accessed this program? I don't think it's a fair characterization to say that not many people in our territory are making under $18 an hour. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I do have the numbers here in front of me. We had 391 applications coming from 94 different businesses to just over 2,100-and-some individuals. This was for all workers 15 years and over. Somebody who is 16 is not necessarily in a situation where they need to be making a living wage if they're still living at home, and it does also include people who are working in the service sector where -- it's not a statement but simply a pro or con to this -- they may well be in a situation of making tips on top of wages.
I think the point is that there is some more analysis that could be done about which industries, which sectors, which businesses are, in fact, paying the $18 an hour wage, but it's not quite as simple as to say that the 2,100-and-some people who have benefited from this program were all not making a living wage. I think it's a little bit more of a complicated story than that. The point, though, is to go and figure out, maybe, what that story is to the extent that we're able to. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I recognize that, perhaps, there's a debate about whether 15-year-olds deserve a living wage. Perhaps there's a debate about whether service industry workers, when they have tips, should make less than $18 an hour, but I know there are actually thousands of people on this program, many of whom were grocery store workers, people we deemed essential, and now, with the passing of this budget, the Department of Finance has decided that they do not deserve to make $18 an hour or that it's not a priority to top up their wages.
I know ECE has a number of different wage subsidy programs kicking around. They do different things, and they cater to different labour forces. I think that this is a priority area of, essentially, the working poor. If you're on income assistance, it doesn't make sense to go and get one of these jobs right now. You just don't make that much money.
I guess that I will leave it at that, and I would like to see the Department of Finance find a way to maybe extend this program, and if that has to work with ECE, then that's okay. If we have to take servers and 15-year-olds out, that's okay, but I think that the passing of this budget in the middle of the pandemic for $4 million means that 2,000 workers were making $18 an hour, and I think this is one of the most frustrating budget lines in the whole thing. That's a comment. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. We will move on to Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am just going to ask about the net fiscal benefit transfer to the Aboriginal parties. I'm probably duplicating maybe some of what my colleague was asking around the Heritage Fund, but my understanding is based on percentages of royalties that are earned from the mineral resources sector. Understandably, this is why 2019-2020 is quite a bit lower, but then, again, like everywhere else, we come back to pre-COVID estimations again. I think it's really optimistic to think that we are going to be getting the same type of royalties that we were getting pre-COVID going forward. I get the reluctance to not want to adjust budgets. However, this is a payment out to Indigenous organizations that we are now putting in the budget and putting an amount in. Maybe this is something that's always problematic, but then it states to me that we are sort of making a promise of a payment that potentially we are not going to be able to fulfill. I get that everybody understands it's based on fluctuating royalties and revenues. However, again, this is an area where I do not see why we would not have been more realistic in our budgeting. Maybe the Minister can speak to that? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, Madam Chair, this is a base budget that was developed coming out of devolution, when certainly the amounts that were anticipated for resource royalties and that were being received for resource royalties were much higher than what they are right now or certainly what they have been in the last year. What would happen is that the amount lapses; it does not get paid out. It's not actual money right now. It's not here. It's money that we are anticipating and that would then, if the revenues are supported, if the actual revenues are supported to reach this goal, that amount is paid out. If it was not here and we actually achieved this, we would be coming back for a supplementary appropriation to pay out whatever the actual amount is. However, all that said, I would agree that this is a particular line item where we do not need to rely necessarily on the devolution data from several years ago, now that we can do a better job on this one of mending what is here to be more reflective of the actual sum. Thank you.
