Thank you, Member. Minister of MACA.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I do not know a specific date. I will have Mr. Gary Schauerte respond as to when the work had started. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Schauerte.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Work on the Fire Prevention Act actually began in the 17th Assembly, where a legislative proposal was developed in the 17th Assembly. During a period of time in the 18th Assembly, legislative priorities changed for a number of reasons, including the introduction of the 911 program, the Western Canada Lottery Act, amendments to the Emergency Management Act. All of those pulled away from the Fire Prevention Act priority. Over the last year, maybe two years, there has been considerable pressure on the area around regulatory enforcement related to code compliance, and this is taking the legislative work in a bit of a different direction in that we do want to look at how code compliance may be looked at by this government as a go-forward. The work that originated in the 17th Assembly was really around community fire protection services work and those kind of things. The department still continues to seek to want to make amendments to the act related to the community fire component. The regulatory component is the work that has been new over the last year, year and a half that has taken the department in a different direction, so that is why we are returning to that work in the 19th Assembly. Thank you, Madam Chair
Thank you, Mr. Schauerte. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I get that there are a lot of directions you can go with the Fire Prevention Act and that this started in the 17th Assembly, but I heard the Minister say that we are looking for an LP in February of 2022. I just cannot help but think that there is a systemic problem in the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs in getting legislation done. Even if it's piece-mealing it and doing it in a phased approach, I am concerned that we yet might go another Assembly, three in a row, without seeing the Fire Prevention Act. I hear the LP is scheduled for February 2022. When can we expect to see introduction of the Fire Prevention Act? How much after the LP are you expecting to introduce the act? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of MACA.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to express to the Member that this Fire Prevention Act will be brought forward to committee as well to have the significant changes done and passed. I make that a priority within the portfolio and within the department. I don't want to be the Minister known that it's now the 20th Assembly and nothing has been completed with the Fire Prevention Act, so I will be making this a priority. I will have Mr. Gary Schauerte comment on that because, after the February 2022, no, 2021, what is the next phase of approach for the Fire Prevention Act so we continue traction on the proposal. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Schauerte.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We have proposed to bring forward the legislative proposal in spring of 2022. It really will depend on how long committee wants to take with the legislative proposal before they give their agreement or concurrence that the proposal is what they are supportive of. After that, we would have to draft the bill, so I suspect it's going to be later in 2022 or early 2023 before the department would be introducing the bill for the consideration by the House. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Schauerte. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I caution the department. Early 2023 means there are a couple of sittings and then an election. It's very hard to get legislation passed early 2023. I think with this one, specifically, getting an LP in 2022, if it's not going in the right direction, we are at risk of not passing this once again. One of those directions, as has been repeatedly asked by the NWT Association of Communities, is that this actually be a building standards act, that we look at the work of developing a northern building code; we look at how the GNWT Good Building Practices apply to the Northwest Territories; we look at accessibility standards, how disability legislation applies. I can't emphasize the amount of work that is. I believe that the Department of Infrastructure's GNWT Good Building Practices is over 400 pages of architects, engineers, builders, every community involved in building it. I don't see that capacity in the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs. I question whether the department should even have the Fire Prevention Act in the first place, given the scope of work. My first question is: is the Fire Prevention Act LP that we are expecting to see going to be a building standards act? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of MACA.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to be very clear on the Fire Prevention Act because, since I have had the portfolio as Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs, we have had a lot of situations that have occurred where the Fire Prevention Act would need those significant changes. I am looking at the differences within that act, as well, but then I want to be very clear on what the proposal is like coming forward.
I know that the building codes really puts the Northwest Territories in a different state. It could become very complicated. I am going to have Mr. Gary Schauerte just elaborate on that a little bit more. I don't want to confuse the Members, as well, and I do not want to see this piece of legislation carry over into the next Assembly. I want to make sure that we are very clear and that we are going to see this pass. I would also like to see it before January of 2023. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Schauerte.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Member is correct. It is a complicated piece of legislation. There is a wide variety of stake holders who will have interest in this work. Part of the reason why we want to make sure that we take the requisite time before we bring forward an LP or a bill for this House is because we do need to take the time to talk to our key stakeholders, like the architects association, the engineers association, and certainly the Infrastructure departments within the Government of the NWT that build infrastructure pursuant to the code. With that in mind, there are a lot of viewpoints that we need to make sure that we document in order to bring forward a fulsome LP that is representative of the interests of all of the stakeholders. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Schauerte. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. When I look at the seniors and disabilities property discount act, the Fire Prevention Act, and the Property Assessment and Taxation Act all scheduled for later in this Assembly, MACA is not introducing any legislation in the next year, I don't understand why the department doesn't grab some low-hanging fruit and bring forward a piece of legislation.
There have been requests for the Fire Prevention Act for years. There are simple little changes that you could carve off. I believe the appeals mechanism is not working. It should probably have a Ministerial appeal mechanism as one. There are numerous clauses that the municipalities have expressed with the Property Assessment and Taxation Act. I am concerned. I just want to see confidence that MACA can bring forward a piece of legislation, even a small little change to one of these acts, not to mention the Cities, Towns and Villages Act, the Hamlets Act, and all of the other legislation that I would love this department to catch up on. I don't care which one it is; I don't care if it is a phased approach or how you do it. Is the Minister willing to bring forward a piece of legislation in the next year? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of MACA.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Member, for your comment. I will bring that back to my department and look at what it is that we could possibly pass just a portion of this legislation, but I would have to bring that back to my department and make sure that we are making these changes effective and right. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Maybe one last thing. I don't want to wait until February 2022 before I have any input into the Fire Prevention Act, so if I could get the Minister to provide just a summary of what is being planned. In that, I would like the question answered whether this is going to be beyond fire prevention and be a building standards act, whether we are going to look at the entire national building code and the northern building code, whether we are going to look at accessibility legislation, whether that is part of the scope of work that we are doing right now, and I would like some answers on what is expected in regulations.
To me, if we are going to adopt a northern building code, that is probably done in regulations, which means we don't bring this piece of legislation in for another six years or something because the amount of work to develop the regulations would also be massive. A commitment of the Minister that she can give something to, in this case, the Standing Committee on Government Operations of what is being done with the Fire Prevention Act. Before I see an LP in February 2022, I would like to have a sense of where we are going. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister, the Member is looking for a commitment before 2022.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to say yes to the Member and just provide a summary of where we are at right now and what we are looking at going forward. The phased approach is what we are forecasting. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Are there any further questions under the Municipal and Community Affairs directorate? Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Could I get an update as to where we are with ATIP implementation with municipal governments? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Minister of MACA.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am going to hand this question over to the deputy minister. I will just get her to respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister Young.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Committee may recall, I believe, last year when we were speaking, we were just about to meet with our working group comprised of representatives from the Association of Communities. Although COVID hit, we did manage to have the first meeting with stakeholders in, I believe it was, April or May of 2020. Since that time, there had been a number of staff changes within the Justice team working on this working group with us, so we have been regrouping with them and preparing a discussion document to bring back to the working group that proposes a work plan and timeline. We are now just trying to set up the follow-up meeting with the working group for that next meeting.
We had indicated 18 months from the time that we got the working group together until we would have an implementation plan, and although we were delayed at the beginning of this, I believe we still can accomplish the implementation plan conversation. What we are trying to do is do some of that research as part of our own work to bring forward ideas to the working group instead of starting from scratch with them so that it should facilitate the conversation a little bit easier. That is where we are at right now, just trying to get the working group back together to talk about the next steps. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Am I right, then, that there has only been one meeting of the working group? There hasn't even been a second one. Is that correct?
Thank you. Minister of MACA.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, that is correct.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I'm just more than a little bit worried about the pace of this. I was in the last Assembly. We passed the changes in August of 2019. That's more than a year and a half ago now. I know COVID has obviously slowed things down. Has the department identified any resource needs, financial needs, for community governments to implement this legislation, and if so, is it found in this budget? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of MACA.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just currently, I just know about the working group and the communication with the association of communities. I am not clear if there is a set budget or else if there was any commitment financially within this budget. I will just have Ms. Eleanor Young respond. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister Young.
Thank you, Madam Chair. There has been a discussion with the stakeholders about resource impacts, but the actual resource needs are subject to the implementation plan. Whether software is required, for example, whether additional staff are required, those are questions to be answered as part of the implementation plan. There has been a general conversation, but the specifics around what the resource requirements would be have not been identified. If those are identified, then the department would obviously bring those forward as part of the process before we implement the legislation with communities. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Yes, I look forward to a supplementary appropriation by the department to make sure that community governments can actually have their costs covered. I do not think it's fair that this responsibility is downloaded onto them without resources. Is this something that the Minister wants to try to accomplish before the end of this Assembly? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of MACA.
Thank you, Madam Chair. This is something I will work towards, but with the capacity that we have at the smaller community level and looking at what is required, the consultation, the meetings with NWTAC, I feel that we would be working towards that. I don't feel that it would be completed within the lifetime of this Assembly. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I guess if I ask the question, I have got to live with the answer. I don't find that an acceptable response, though. That it would take more than four years to actually implement this. That is just totally unacceptable, so I just leave that on the record. One of the other pieces of legislation that the department is apparently working on is the Property Assessment and Taxation Act. I served on Yellowknife city council from 1996 to 2007, and we were talking about the necessary changes to that legislation when I was on council. That is at least 13 years ago, maybe 14 years ago if I try to do my math properly. Why is that piece of legislation taking so long to fix? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of MACA.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I will have Mr. Gary Schauerte comment. That is historical information, as well, but also, I am looking at the priorities of each Assembly that has looked at these acts going forward. I will have him elaborate on the response. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Schauerte.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Already referenced earlier was work that we did on other legislation in the 18th Assembly, which in part contributed to why we were not working on PATA during the 18th Assembly. As the Member has pointed out, community governments have spoken out about this legislation on a number of occasions, and there are currently probably six outstanding resolutions from the NWT Association of Communities related to this legislation. That really was the starting point for the department of where we started to identify issues that needed to be addressed through this legislative review. As we have continued to conduct our research, we have identified plenty of other things that could be improved in the legislation, as well, beyond those that have been raised or put into writing by community governments.
The reason why we are taking our time again with this legislation is that, when we open it up for purposes of amendments, we want to make sure that we bring it up to date and change as many things as possible. Issues that have been raised by community governments have been part of answering that question. We have also been conducting comprehensive research right across the country in terms of how the business of assessment is being completed in all jurisdictions in order to help modernize the act. In part, we are pulling all of that work together to help inform the LP. Thank you, Madam Chair.
