Thank you, Mr. Schauerte. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Listen, I fully support the engagement work. I fully support working with Dettah to bring their fire services online. I support working with every other community. I think there's a big question of how taxes work on the Ingraham Trail and where that money goes, whether there should be a fire levy for services. In the past, the city used to charge, if you called a fire truck, you actually paid the City of Yellowknife a few thousand dollars. There are options. Those options and that work is not going to be completed in the next few weeks, and there is no way that this continues without agreement from the City of Yellowknife. My question is: has the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs made an offer to compensate the City of Yellowknife to continue fire services on an interim basis pending all of that other work? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of MACA.
Thank you, Madam Chair. As of today, the City of Yellowknife continues to support and offer fire services to Ingraham Trail, but as of April 1st, like the Member had said, that date is coming up very closely. He stated within five weeks. Looking at those fire services, also looking at the options, we are going to be looking at the consultation to be done, and my department will have something to propose to the residents of Ingraham Trail. I also want to really elaborate, as well, the implications that we are going to be looking at for the fire services to be offered. I really want to emphasize on the education and training. I just also want to look at the fire department here in Yellowknife, and also looking at the fire department in the smaller communities.
We need to find people that are committed to offering these fire services and that are committed to be educated and trained and also looking at the certifications that they do follow and equipment as well. It's really not a decision that could be just made overnight, and I know that I've made the commitment that we will find a solution by April 1st. I'm confident that my department has been working diligently with Ingraham Trail, and I'm confident for them to get out there and get their consultation done and really have those options available to the residents. I really want to speak about the financial implications as well, whether the people at Ingraham Trail would be in favour with those additional taxes and the additional financial requirements that are going to be needed from the residents at Ingraham Trail to be paying a certain amount to the city. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I don't want to waste every single Member of the Legislative Assembly's time on this, but I've asked this repeatedly, and I've repeatedly been told that by April 1st, we'll have a solution. I am not hearing anything that leads me to believe that that is now true. What I'm actually looking for is the conversations that have had with the City of Yellowknife. Has the City of Yellowknife said, "Yes, we'll do this for $100,000," and we decided that was too high? Has the City of Yellowknife said, "No, there's a risk assessment," and there's no way we'll offer this? Have we not even made an offer to the City of Yellowknife? I'm not worried about the larger consultation that has to happen. Just in the next five weeks, I want to understand what has happened with the City of Yellowknife and what will happen with the City of Yellowknife? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That's a conversation that we've been having with the city. I will provide an update to the Member to let the Member know where we currently are sitting at with those conversations and what the city has actually committed to, and that information will be provided to the Member. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just looking at ground ambulance and highway rescue, can the Minister tell me: are they two separate things? Ground ambulance, is that one category and highway rescue something different? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of MACA.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I will have Mr. Gary Schauerte respond to the question. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Schauerte.
Thank you, Madam Chair. It's one program. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. This issue, it's been ongoing and especially for Hay River. Hay River, we have Highways No. 1, 2, 3, 5, and 6 in close vicinity, so we have got a good length of the highways to look after. In the Northwest Territories, you have got 2,200 kilometres of all-season and 1,400 kilometres of winter roads. I look at the $185,000, that is $84 per kilometre for the all-season. If you take them all, it's $51 per kilometre, which is really not a lot of money, so I am just wondering: we have been talking about it, and I listen to the questions from the MLA from Yellowknife North. We do not seem to be getting any further ahead in addressing the issue of ground ambulance and highway rescue, so I would ask the Minister: are we making any headway, or are we expecting to make any headway with addressing ground ambulance and highway rescue throughout the Northwest Territories? It seems like we spin our wheels, and it's not just this Assembly. It's past Assemblies, as well, so it's not like it's a new issue. That is the question: are we making any headway with this? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of MACA.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Throughout the Northwest Territories, depending on which jurisdiction and the highways, as well, where they exist, it becomes quite complicated. I am going to have Mr. Gary Schauerte elaborate on the current statuses throughout the Northwest Territories and how we administer the highways within Hay River, Inuvik, and Fort Smith, and looking at what MACA is responsible for and looking at the partnerships we have with the communities and with department of health. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Schauerte.
Madam Chair, the department began review of the ground ambulance program approximately two years or so back, where we hired an exterior consultant to support engagement with all of the different municipalities that deliver this service. Through that work, a number of different facets of the program were reviewed, including governance, charge-backs, areas of the road that different municipalities would be responsible for. There was at one point a plan to identify all of the highways across the NWT and which communities would respond on that, although there was never final agreement by all communities on that.
The Minister is correct. A community like Hay River does have highways going in a number of different directions. It does not mean that they are rolling hundreds of kilometres down the road in five different directions, which is part of what that strategy was intended to look at, was a fair approach to how highways would be covered. Much of that work was, we were getting near ready to bring that back for discussion with Members as the deputy referred to in her earlier answer, and this work has been somewhat sidetracked by the discussion around Ingraham Trail. We did not anticipate that the municipality would make a decision regarding their level of service. Nonetheless, that challenge was given to the department to try to address. Emergency services, fire protection services outside the municipal boundary had many of the same issues and concerns as ground ambulance outside municipal boundaries had, so there was certainly a parallel to the issues. It made sense that we continued to look at these in conjunction with each other.
As the Minister referenced and as the deputy said earlier, we have situations where the department of health is delivering ambulatory services. We also have situations where the municipality is delivering ambulatory services, so all of those issues had to be factored into this discussion. Again, as I referenced, we were nearing to bring back a presentation to standing committee on our review of the ground ambulance program and some of the thoughts we had related to all of the different elements of this program. That presentation is still something that we want to do with committee, but the priority around Ingraham Trail and the timeline around addressing Ingraham Trail has somewhat taken that direction of that work on a bit of a tangent for a short period of time until we can get that done. At the end of the day, the work that we are putting into addressing how we are going to deal with fire prevention services on the Ingraham Trail will help to inform the larger discussion around emergency services outside municipal boundaries. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Schauerte. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That is all fine and dandy, but at the end of the day, the reality is that we have been waiting and waiting and waiting. We do not seem to be making a lot of headway. In Hay River, again, like I say, there is no way that the Town of Hay River is going to say, "No, we are not going to go out on an emergency call." You just do it because it's the right thing. It does not matter what the cost. Until you have actually had somebody that required, on the highway, that service, and I have for one of my children. It's so valuable, but we seem to fight or we seem to look at the cost. There is a reason for that, but at the same time, we have to make some decisions because we have to deal with it. On Highways No. 1 and 3, we have I don't know how many trucks rolling down that highway between the end of March or middle of March or January to March, like 10,000. There is the potential for accidents and that, so it's very important. I am hoping that, when we come back next time, we actually hear something positive, that some agreements are in place, no more of this, "Well, we are looking at it; we are engaging; we are reviewing." If we took some of that money and put it into this, maybe we would have these agreements in place by now. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. If you have no further questions, then I will move on to the Member for Nunakput.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just in regard to the ambulance services on the Tuktoyaktuk Inuvik Highway, that we do not have any, something should be really looked at. Ambulance services that we do have in the riding, in Nunakput, it's all in the back of an RCMP truck, in the back of an F-150 Ford, and that is unacceptable. I am thinking that, if you could even send us your old ambulances from down here and buy yourselves new ones, it would be good. That is how bad we need it in the community. What we should be doing is really working with the hamlet and the SAO, senior administrative officer, to try to get ambulance services into the Nunakput communities and for the Inuvik Tuktoyaktuk Highway. That service is needed really badly. It's more of a comment because I am picking up where Mr. Simpson is speaking to, but I think it should be done quicker rather than later and invest a little bit of money. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Nunakput. Minister of MACA.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the comments coming forward, and looking at the ambulance services, it's kind of a really foggy approach, I want to say, that we do not have the commitments to be looking at this type of service to be offered. I want to put into comparison that we provide the firefighter initiative in the smaller communities and looking at the education and training that comes with that and also looking at the liability for offering ambulance services and the urgency to have trained, qualified people to be running these trucks and being able to be first on hand when there is a need for the ambulance services on the highways. I also want to say that, other than the budget that we do have, 83 percent of our budget does go out into the smaller communities, and MACA does provide that extra, that support for the communities on future planning, capital planning, and what is it that they are wanting to intend in the next few years. I am going to bring this back to my department, and I want to bring this to standing committee, as well, so I could really provide a clearer understanding of where MACA sits with this. Looking at the $185,000 that we do have in this budget, that is mainly for equipment and training for the communities, to support them that way. I would like to just bring that back and provide a clearer understanding to the Members. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Nunakput.
No. Thank you, Madam Chair. I just need ambulances. Thank you.
Are there any further questions under Municipal and Community Affairs, public safety? Members, we are going to take a short, five-minute break, and then we will get back to the same activity.
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I will call committee back to order, and we will carry on with the Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I have some questions about the 911 program. I know that, when the legislation was passed in the last Assembly, there was a cap placed on the fees that were going to be charged to phone lines. I think it's $1.70 and it's in place for three years. The fees clearly are not covering the cost of the program. Where is the rest of the money coming from? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Minister of MACA.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I will have Ms. Eleanor Young respond. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister Young.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just one quick thing I want to reference on the fees because, when we look at the actuals from the prior year, it is a little bit confusing or misleading because, when we had done our budget exercise, we had thought we'd be starting to collect fees in the June/July time frame, and by the time we were actually up and operating collecting fees, it was November/December. Just to clarify, the revenue from the prior year, that is part of the reason why you see the difference in the revenue. In essence, the expenditures for 911 are recorded under the department's main estimates. The revenue goes into the general revenue for the government, so if we are short on revenue collections, it is impacting the general revenue for the GNWT and then impacting our overall budget. It is not a separate fund, per se, within MACA, just to clarify that. It does get reported in our annual report, though; I should say that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Okay, and I'm looking at the annual report. I can see that there is a revenue shortfall for 2019-2020 of about $425,000, roughly. That money, is it coming out of the consolidated revenue fund, essentially? Is that the source of the money? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll have Ms. Eleanor Young just elaborate on the $425,000 and where that funding is coming from. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister Young.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, my understanding of finance, that is how it's recorded. It comes out of consolidated revenue. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. What work are we doing to prepare for this time, November 1, 2022, where the cap can be taken off the fees? Are we looking at potentially increasing those fees? What work has the department started to do? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of MACA.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I will have Mr. Gary Schauerte respond. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Schauerte.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I would expect, at the conclusion of this fiscal year, April 1st or March 31st, we'll be initiating the evaluation of the 911 program. Part of the evaluation will look at the system itself and whether or not it's credited as a fully accredited 911 system based on service standards and those kinds of things. It's also going to delve into our governance and funding morals around the program, in terms of issues that have been raised, for example, whether or not we have the same number or the appropriate number of staff to deliver the service. I would expect it's also going to look at revenues and the concept of the break-even model, which was presented when the system was originally approved.
The other point I would make, in addition to those raised by the deputy with reference to revenues, is: at the time of the budgeting for the 911 program, we ultimately as a government had to project the number of phones that existed in the Northwest Territories, which is what the call levy is; it's tied to the number of phones. That information typically is proprietary information that is owned by the telcos, so they didn't provide that information to us when we were budgeting for this program and designing it. Now that we have the benefit of that information, because the telcos are bound by the legislation, we do now have an accurate number of the number of telephones that are within the system, so that's a factor that contributes to how much money we can raise. The call levy times the number of phones will generate the amount of revenue. It's that kind of information that we have now that will help to inform that discussion about whether or not $1.70 is an appropriate number or not.
Ultimately, at the end of the day, that's contained in the legislation. It does have a sunset clause, I believe, in the legislation, as the Minister pointed out, but any discussion about the levy going forward would be informed by the evaluation and by those kinds of factors. I would suspect it would come to the floor of the House for discussion. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Schauerte. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Yes. That's good to know. Is there money in the budget for the actual evaluation? Is the money in the 2021-2022 Main Estimates for this evaluation of the 911 program? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Minister of MACA.
