Thank you. I know we have a lot of corrections officers with very long careers, a lot of local people. There is a lot of turnover happening in that we have a lot of people ready to retire and who are retiring, and they are of that age. I am not sure about this, people who went through this program and started working with corrections. I am not sure if we have that information on hand. The deputy minister might be able to offer something. I am not sure. Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. We do not have that information on hand, but there can be significant turnover in this area because this is a focused training program. Then these staff, with their security expertise and experience, are then highly recruited by perhaps the mining industry because they have that specific training in the North and focused on security. We do have some turnover, but then, as the Minister mentioned, we have some very long-time staff who provide significant experience in the facilities that they work in. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes. Thank you again for that response. I will just leave this with a comment. In our committees, we say our morning prayers and stuff. I always say we should say prayers for people, our staff, and our public servants who put themselves in harm's way. This is one of them. I have done it myself. It's a dangerous job, and people just do not realize corrections does not stop. It's a 24/7 operation. You always have to be alert. You always have to be in it all the time. Like I said, like my colleague from Thebacha said, you have to look out for each other and work as a team. I think this is one of those ones that do that. Again, good job, and I wanted to say I am thankful for those guys, for that crew. Like I said, I have been there before. I am going to leave that as a comment. Thank you.
Any further comments, questions? Seeing none, please turn to page 279. Justice, corrections, operations expenditure summary, 2021-2022 Main Estimates, $38,574,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. We will now move to court services, beginning on page 282, with information items on 284. Questions for court services? No questions for court services? Seeing no questions for court services, please turn to page 283. Court services, operations expenditure summary, 2021-2022 Main Estimates, $14,759,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Committee, please turn to legal aid services, beginning on page 285, with information items on 287. Legal aid services. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am looking at page 286, at the Office of the Children's Lawyer, just noting, that this is an item that would be very difficult to predict each year how much would be spent here. Having had friends who have used this service, I was told it was actually extremely helpful and very worthwhile and rewarding, so I am just wondering if there is a need or the potential to fund this area more. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. When the office was first set up, there was an estimated number of cases that it would be dealing with, and it was budgeted accordingly. It turns out that, in reality, it deals with significantly more cases, and so there is a proposed increase of $99,000 to cover the increased costs associated with that. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Does the department have any idea or indication: do we think that this is going to rise and that we would be looking to put more money there? I am looking: here, it's another $100,000 over last year's estimates. However, would it not make more sense to put more money there now in the event that they do need it as it is something that I don't think we would just not fund? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you. I agree that it's probably not something we would just not fund, but based on our experiences, the $99,000 should be sufficient to cover the costs that we expect in the coming year. It is based on experience, whereas the first number was really based on a guess. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That gives me more confidence than other times in other departments where it was like, "Well, we have just put this number there," so I am glad to hear it's a good solid estimate. I am just looking at the legal aid clinics and the Legal Aid Commission, and I would assume that the legal aid clinics is the line item, the $3.2 million, that covers the actual provision of legal aid services to residents. What mechanism do people have to go back if they should have found that they were not given good legal aid services or advice? Is there a mechanism for them to then recoup that or have some help further with the subsequent costs that they incurred as a result? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you. My deputy minister has some experience with legal aid. Perhaps she can take this. Thank you.
Thank you. Deputy Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. There are appeals processes, appeals that clients can take to the commission, and the commission will hear those appeals and make an appropriate decision. That is the monetary aspect. If clients are not satisfied with their services, there are mechanisms, as well, with the law society where they can raise those concerns. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am just looking at the court workers line item and noting that we do have the actuals for 2019-2020. We are at $894,000 but have gone up now in the last two years to $1.24 million on page 286. Maybe could the Minister speak to what that increase reflects, and is that just more positions within the court and maybe where those positions lie? Thank you.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. For some of the variation between the 2019-2020 actuals and the current budget, I can ask Ms. Bolstad. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Ms. Bolstad.
Thank you, Madam Chair. There were collective bargaining increases between the 2019-2020 and 2020-2021, so between those actuals. In addition, we did receive an additional court worker position under our federal funding agreement and under access to justice for the outreach clinic, so that grew that budget, as well. For the position breakdown for court workers, we have one in Inuvik, one in Fort Simpson, four in Yellowknife, one in Norman Wells, one in Fort Smith, one in Hay River, and one in Behchoko. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am good, thank you.
Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Member for Great Slave covered off much of my questions. While we are here, I am wondering if the Minister can speak to the difference of roughly a million dollars between the 2019-2020 actuals? There is about a million-dollar difference where the budget has come down, and I am wondering why the budget changed so drastically between 2019-2020 and 2021-2022 for Legal Aid Commission. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you. Ms. Bolstad has that information. Thank you.
Ms. Bolstad.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Legal Aid Commission fluctuates significantly based on the number of vacancies in staff lawyers and then the use of private bar, as well. Where we have partial-year vacancies or a higher need for panel lawyers, the Legal Aid Commission expenditures go up, and then the legal aid clinics where our lawyers are staffed will usually compensate, but it is really dependent on cases and the number that they have in that year. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. How many vacancies are currently in the Legal Aid Commission? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you. I'm not sure if we have that information. Perhaps the deputy minister can offer some information.
Thank you. Deputy Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I believe we are close to fully staffed, but we can provide that information to confirm that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I've had this conversation with the Minister before, just about concerns with making sure that NWT residents are able to have the same lawyer all the way through their legal aid needs and the consistency that that provides, and so I appreciate that information. Thank you.
Minister?
I appreciate the comment. It is difficult to staff lawyers. We, I think, have more lawyers per capita in the Northwest Territories than any other jurisdiction in Canada, four times as many as some jurisdictions, I think, per capita, so there is a real demand here for lawyers. What often happens is we get young lawyers coming up and staying a few years and then moving on, and so it does create some turnover. Part of the issue is that, as I understand it, the lawyers who work with the Government of the Northwest Territories are actually paid less than counterparts in other jurisdictions, which is not generally the case for government jobs up here, so there are a few factors that make it difficult to retain people. I'll just leave it at that. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Are there any further questions or comments under legal aid services? Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. One of the big gaps in this area is that there are a lot of lawyers, but they are all in Yellowknife. It's really hard, once you get outside of Yellowknife, to get access to Justice. Legal aid largely deals with criminal matters and family matters. I know the Legal Aid Commission runs an outreach legal aid clinic, but it is staffed with one lawyer and one court worker. I know we've had trouble staffing that. I think there's a lot of work to be done in this area. I've worked in legal clinics previously that had dozens of staff and articling students, and they were largely federally funded. The John Howard Society runs them across the country. I think there really is potential in the Northwest Territories to create some sort of legal aid clinic that deals with all of the other issues that the outreach is starting to work on. The question out of that is: I believe there is a federal access to justice services agreement that funds quite a bit of our legal aid. Can I just get a clarification on how much federal money we get in this area?
Thank you, Member. Minister.
