Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to go to the fur price program, as well. In the news there, I see that there was a bunch of polar bear hides sent back or looking to get sent back into Nunavut. I am just wondering if that is happening here in the territories. Are there furs down south that will be returned to the NWT because they cannot be sold? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Our furs are actually in the North. We keep them here. We take them down to auction. We do not leave them down there. My understanding is we do not leave them down there. Basically, we give the trappers their money up front; then we send it out. As the deputy minister says, April, we are looking that it will be better sales for us. Right now, we are not in the same boat as the Nunavut government. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. When the furs go south and I guess because of maybe COVID-related issues and prices are down, will the trappers be compensated or will there be an increase in their compensation to keep them up to a level of kind of where they have been in the past? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
For that detail, I will turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Deputy Minister Kelly.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Because of the Genuine Mackenzie Valley Fur Program and the way that it works, there are advances that are made and there are grubstake payments that are made to trappers, so they have already received some funding before the auction happens. This is the reason that the system was built the way that it is, so we kind of have built-in insurance where that is concerned. Obviously, there are ways that we can do things better and with COVID changing the lay of the land where fur is concerned. We are definitely looking into this, and it will be part of the discussions that we have when we look at the innovation opportunities for the industry. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. With respect to the fur, is any of it actually sent south and prepared there and brought back to the NWT for use by northern artisans? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
For that detail, I would turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Deputy Minister Kelly.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My understanding is: yes, that that does occur. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That is good to know because I usually get people asking me where they can buy fur from. I just want to go to Take a Kid Trapping in case I want to take one of my kids.
---Laughter
Anyways, can you talk a little bit about that program? I see it went in 2019-2020 from $48,000 up to $125,000, so I suspect that is the interest in it since that is what's happening. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
I will start, and then I will turn it over to the deputy minister. Take a Kid Trapping is a combination of a couple of departments working together. ENR is the lead on it. We have seen a decline in applications in the previous years, but for the detail of the discrepancy, I am going to turn it to the deputy minister with your permission. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Deputy Minister Kelly.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I would definitely say that the actuals in that year were lower because of COVID, as well. A lot of the Take a Kid Trapping program happens later on in the spring of the year, and at that point, we were not doing programs like that. However, as the Minister mentioned, there has also been a decrease in applications. I know that the people in our on-the-land unit are hard at work trying to promote this program to make sure that it can be happening in communities in the NWT. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I will just move to that disaster compensation, as well, and the $15,000 there. With respect to what happened around the Fort Smith area and that with the trappers because of the high water, I am not sure if that is looked at as a natural disaster or what, but is the department looking at maybe defining what a disaster actually is with respect to trappers? There seemed to be something just in the news, whether it is true or not, that government first came out and said it was not our fault, so I am just not sure if we have any definitions or how we take responsibility for high water or whatever. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you. As for the definition, I will probably get the deputy minister to try to give that. It was not the Taltson Dam. That did not cause it. It was Mother Nature, a whole bunch of tributaries, lots of water, lots of snow and rain, so it had an impact on it. We do have a definition that we use, and that there is part of it. For the definition and detail of what we do, I am going to turn to the deputy minister. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Deputy Minister Kelly.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Flooding is certainly one of the natural disasters that one can apply for funding under this program for, but there are criteria that are part of that program. For the program at the $4,500 level, which is the program that is usually available, it has a relationship to 25 percent of your income coming from trapping. With respect to what happened this year on the Taltson, because of the magnitude of effect, it's unprecedented, the amount of damage that happened in that area. We have set up a program specifically for Taltson, and it's up to $40,000. The criteria are being finalized right now, but they are slightly different to accommodate the situation that we're in at this particular moment in time. Again, that is specific to the Taltson issue, but flooding that happens in other areas of the NWT would be eligible as long as the people meet the criteria, the claim meets the criteria of the fund. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to turn to traditional knowledge. With respect to that fund there, I see that it was $7,000 in 2019-2020, and it's gone up to $65,000. I'm just wondering, I would ask how it's used. I see that it says here that it carries out specific wildlife and forestry research. Does that include getting information from elders, picking the knowledge that they have, and if so, is there compensation related to that? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thanks. I'll start, and with your permission, I'll ask you to go to the deputy minister. With the variance there with the $7,000 to $65,000, it was actually due to a coding error, payments made out of other contribution lines, so that's what we had there. The traditional knowledge funding helps communities carry out specific projects related to collection of traditional knowledge and many other projects, including traditional knowledge and cultural components. Traditional knowledge contributes to and also ties into other departmental contributions and various activities. For further detail, I'll ask your permission to go to the deputy minister. Thank you.
Thank you. Deputy Minister Kelly.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, when there is traditional knowledge work that's done, if it is work that the department is working with elders and traditional knowledge holders, there is compensation as part of that. Sometimes, we fund projects where communities work on it on their own. One of the most important things to consider here is this is one line item, but there is funding from most of the different activities in here that goes towards traditional knowledge. This is not the only money that the department has for traditional knowledge projects. Same with country foods, for example, or food security. These are just examples that are under the corporate management item in the main estimates. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Marsi cho, Madam Chair. My colleague there just took a lot of my thunder, but I'm glad these questions were asked. Just hearing this last response, too, it did answer a lot of my questions, but I did have one just a little bit about traditional knowledge. Right across the board, I think for all departments, if there are any sort of areas where there is any sort of research being done, I think this is very important. To give an example, if there is any sort of scientific study, I think it's so important to have somebody who is really knowledgeable about the land; it could be an elder, it could be a long-term land user, knowledge keepers. It's a good marriage between science and some of the old ways.
When you have a scientist going out on the land studying water levels, for example, it's always good to go out and take somebody who knows the land. Nobody knows the land better than a lot of our locals in the area, in the North. They have a good pulse. They know every rock formation, what the history is of a certain area of land, and it's just valuable. To me, that's more valuable than any sort of PhD, when I'm talking about a lot of traditional knowledge and the knowledge keepers, so I'm hoping this funding amount here can really be looked at. I'm just wondering because I looked through the entire department and this is the only place I've seen traditional knowledge: are there any other areas where this is spoken to? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
I'll start, then, with your permission, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Traditional knowledge, local knowledge, and scientific knowledge is very much what ENR is about. When we do things, we always tap into our traditional and our local knowledge because it helps our scientists. If you look at caribou, we deal with our elders, we talk to our elders, we meet with elders because, basically, they are our foundation moving forward. They are very knowledgeable and help us do things. For the detail that you're looking for in other areas, I will, with your permission, go to the deputy minister. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Deputy Minister Kelly.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I think I'll start by answering that it may not say "traditional knowledge" in there; what it would say is that we have funding to do work on caribou, for example, or moose or water, and we would be doing that work collaboratively with Indigenous governments. A good example of that would be some of the work that we've done in the past on the Slave River and Delta partnership that involved the communities of Fort Smith and Fort Resolution, where we had scientists and traditional knowledge holders and elders in the same room and we actually have some elders who are co-authors on scientific papers because they worked so closely together. What we term that as is "knowledge co-production," where they are actually creating new knowledge by linking the science and traditional knowledge in communities. That's our gold standard. We're not there on all of the projects that we do, obviously, but we do our best to include traditional knowledge wherever we can for the reasons that the Member brought forward. I would also point out that our knowledge agenda has traditional knowledge as a cross-cutting theme, so we try to look to include it wherever we can with the research that we're doing. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for that response. It's good to hear because I'm just trying to understand that specific earmark there for traditional knowledge, so thank you for that response. One other item here that kind of got my attention was the country foods. The actuals were $239,000, and now it's down to $50,000. Is this being reallocated someplace else? Is this country foods being spoken to somewhere else in this section? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
For that detail, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Deputy Minister Kelly.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The reason that it was $239,000 was because we did the engagement for the Sustainable Livelihoods Action Plan that year, and we held meetings in 18 different communities across the Northwest Territories. We don't require that level of engagement any longer, so the funding is now $50,000. However, as I've mentioned previously, there is money for country foods in other areas in the budget, as well, that contribute to that, particularly to food security. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Marsi cho, Madam Chair. Thank you for that. Speaking to country foods, again. What other work is being done for studies in terms of this area? Is there anything ongoing right at this moment? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
For that detail, I'll turn to the deputy minister. Thank you.
