Thank you. Minister.
Thank you. Perhaps I can ask Mr. Saturnino to discuss how exactly this would roll out and what types of courses and when those courses would have had to have been taken, if it's looking in the past or future-looking. That should give Members an idea of what this would look like rolling out. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Mr. Saturnino.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The way Blue Seal programs are typically set up is that there is typically a set of courses that are deemed to be required, and they are usually, of course, business-related courses. With regard to the program, I don't know that there would necessarily be an exam similar to a Red Seal, more like meeting the requirements, so the required courses. The plan typically with most of the Blue Seal programs is that you can go back and look at courses you've already taken. The standard for most postsecondary institutions as well as the trades is typically looking back 10 years, but that's something that we need to establish as we develop the program further. Thank you.
Thank you. Member.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, that clarifies it. I guess I've got to take the courses. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes. My colleague just made me think of a question there. Will there be the ability to take this program over a period of time? I'm assuming, of course, that you wouldn't have to do it all in one year or anything, but how long of a period of time would people get? Could they do this sort of as a part-time thing, take a course a year, and eventually, over time, work towards it? Or are they going to be restricted to doing it in a quicker time frame? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you. I don't think we're there yet in the development, given that the legislation is just before us now, but if you look at other jurisdictions, sometimes, it's a program, sometimes, it's a combination of courses. There doesn't appear, from what I've seen, to be a strict time frame. As Mr. Saturnino said, if you look back 10 years, then perhaps we could see what was taken in those 10 years. I think there is some flexibility, and as with everything that we do here, we can adapt it to the realities of the North, as well. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you. I do appreciate hearing the Minister say that. I worry, sometimes, as we go toward certifications and regulatory-type things, which we do need, there is often a reason why they don't get developed in the North specifically, because we can't support, sometimes, creating more red tape. Just more of a comment, but I'm really glad to hear that. Thank you.
Thank you, and I will take that as a comment. Are there any further general comments? Does committee agree that there are no further general comments?
Agreed.
Can we proceed to the clause-by-clause review of the bill?
Agreed.
Committee, we will defer the bill number and title until after consideration of the clauses. Please turn to page 1 of the bill. Clause 1. Does committee agree?
---Clauses 1 through 4 inclusive approved
Committee, to the bill as a whole, does committee agree that Bill 12, An Act to Amend the Apprenticeship, Trades and Occupational Certification Act, is now ready for third reading?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Bill 12, An Act to Amend the Apprenticeship, Trades and Occupational Certification Act, is now ready for third reading. Does committee agree that this concludes our consideration of Bill 12, An Act to Amend the Apprenticeship, Trades and Occupational Certification Act?
Agreed.
Thank you, Minister, and thank you to our witnesses. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses from the Chamber. Committee, we have agreed to consider Bill 13, An Act to Amend the Interpretation Act. I will ask the Minister of Justice to introduce the bill.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am here today to present Bill 13, An Act to Amend the Interpretation Act. I would like to thank the Standing Committee on Social Development for their thorough review of this bill. A motion was made in committee to ensure there is an opportunity for public engagement prior to this bill coming into force, and I believe the bill has improved as a result.
Bill 13 will amend the Interpretation Act to allow for the elimination of seasonal time changes in favour of a permanent, year-round time standard. Specifically, the bill establishes a permanent time standard and prescribes that the Commissioner and Executive Council set this out in regulations that will replace the current Daylight Saving Time Regulations.
The proposed amendment will be brought into force by order of the Commissioner at a future date. This means that, after the bill receives assent, biannual time changes will continue to be observed until an order is made to make the change to a permanent time standard. This change was prompted by previously voiced public support, research findings that permanent time is healthier and safer, as well as a growing trend in which Canadian and international jurisdictions are eliminating seasonal time changes in favour of a permanent time standard. This amendment will position the NWT to be able to move expeditiously to a permanent time standard as this issue continues to evolve across Canadian jurisdictions.
This concludes my opening remarks, and I would be pleased to answer any questions that Members may have regarding Bill 13.
Thank you, Minister. I will now turn to the chair of the Standing Committee on Social Development, the committee that considered the bill, for her opening comments. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Bill 13, An Act to Amend the Interpretation Act, received second reading in the Legislative Assembly on October 29, 2020, and was referred to the Standing Committee on Social Development for review. On February 9, 2021, the standing committee held a public hearing with the Minister of Justice and completed its clause-by-clause review of the bill. Committee passed one motion with concurrence from the Minister of Justice. I thank the committee and committee staff for their efforts in reviewing this legislation. Individual Members may have additional comments or questions. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister, would you like to bring witnesses into the Chamber?
Yes. If there's a witness in that room, I'd like to bring them into the Chamber.
Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witness into the Chamber, if he's there. Minister, would you please introduce your witness.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to welcome back Mr. Mike Reddy, director of legislation. Thank you.
Thank you. Welcome back. I will now open the floor to general comments on bill 13. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I just wanted to say that, in the last Assembly, there was a petition on changing the time, and there was some support for it. I don't think it was overwhelming, but the whole matter was referred to the Standing Committee on Social Development in the last Assembly, and they did some work on this issue. At the end of the day, their recommendation was that we keep ourselves on Daylight Saving Time so that we would be in sync with Alberta. The bill, though, that we got from Cabinet did not really do that. It gave Cabinet a blank cheque to change time zones, get rid of Daylight Saving Time, without bothering to talk to anybody, and quite frankly, I wasn't prepared to give Cabinet a blank cheque like that. I want to thank the committee for the amendment that was made to the bill. Look, I love my colleagues opposite me, but I don't give them a blank cheque for anything.
In any event, I want to thank the committee for bringing forward an amendment. I know I sat in on their discussion about it, and I suggested that there be an amendment to try to circumscribe that ability to change things. I can accept what's here and the work that the committee did on this issue, but I guess 5(2), the way this reads now, it says that there be "an opportunity for public engagement with residents regarding the elimination of the time change and the setting of standard time." What does that really mean? The importance of this kind of discussion and debate is that, if this ever goes for interpretation somewhere, the courts are going to look back at what we say in this House right now. I want to get on the record: what does the Minister mean when he says "public engagement" before a time change is going to be made? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to be clear, I wouldn't change the time all willy-nilly with this "blank cheque," as the Member calls it. It's not like I want to leave work early, so I'm going to change the time so now it's time to go home. The only prudent thing to do, really, is to ensure that we are aligned with Alberta. That being said, there is a requirement in this bill for some sort of a public consultation. I envision that as an email address that the public can send their concerns to. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I am sure the Minister is being rather facetious, but seriously, I want to know what kind of public engagement Cabinet would intend to do before making such a change. Are you going to give people a reasonable amount of notice? Thirty, 60 days? Are you going to publish the proposed change in newspapers, on a website somewhere, allow for comments to be submitted? Will there be a summary of those comments, and then some reasons for why the change is going to be made or not? That's the kind of reasonable approach that I would expect.
Let's cut the humour here, and let's get serious. I would like to get a serious answer from the Minister about what's really meant here by public engagement. The courts will look back at this when residents in the future may want to know what was meant by public engagement. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you. This was something put forward by committee. In my mind, it's something quite limited, given that it would make very little sense for us to go off on our own and have a different time than Alberta. It wouldn't make sense, and I don't think the public would be appreciative if we did that. It would cause havoc for flights. It would cause havoc for all sorts of things.
I am serious that we would have some sort of website, an email address, a place where comments can be submitted. I don't plan to travel around the territory seeking engagement. Of course, there are going to be advertisements; that's something completely different from engagement. There is going to be notice given. There is going to be extensive notice given. Everyone is going to know that the time is changing. It's going to be the talk of the town, and I can promise that. There won't be the type of widespread engagement like there might be on large piece of legislation or something like that. This is just not where I think that our resources need to go. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member.
Thanks. I think that was a little more helpful. Look, I'm not suggesting that there has to be public hearings and all of that. For the actual time change, yes, there would obviously be notice, but I would expect that there would be notice or at least an opportunity for the public to express their views about whether we should change to Daylight Saving Time, be consistent with Alberta if they make that change, that kind of thing. I am not expecting a big road show, but to say that there's just going to be an email address, I don't think that quite cuts it in terms of public engagement. I'm not sure what else I have to say on this topic right now, Madam Chair, but I do hope that the Minister would take this kind of responsibility seriously. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I understand why we want to have this legislation in place, in order to be more flexible and quick to adapt should Alberta decide to make their change. Now, listening to the Minister, I'm a little bit confused when we do talk about engagement. I get that there are different levels of engagement and what that means, and not that I necessarily think that this scenario will occur, but what happens if the engagement shows the Minister that there is not a want to change how things are, and then Alberta does change, and all of a sudden, we are now sitting here out of sync with Alberta? My question is: is the intention that, as soon as Alberta changes, we will, too; we will be making our decision based on Alberta's decision? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. There is a significant amount of research about the effects of Daylight Saving Time. There's anecdotal evidence about Daylight Saving Time. I don't know if I've ever heard anyone here say they like it. Barring some evidence that I can't foresee coming forward, I expect that we would be in sync with Alberta. The reason the legislation is as it is is because we want to be very nimble and not make the change anticipating that Alberta will make a change, and then Alberta doesn't make a change. That scenario has happened in other jurisdictions before, and we don't want that to happen. If there's public consultation, and they say they want to change it before Alberta changes, then perhaps that's something that we can look at, as well, but I can't imagine that we would be too far off of our neighbours to the south. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I do appreciate that. I am just trying to raise a scenario that needs to be considered. However, I am in favour of getting rid of it, but I understand why we need to be in line with Alberta, as someone who has always worked in small satellite offices where, generally, I am linked to the Edmonton office. I couldn't imagine being an hour out, which would then, basically, just mean I end up working an extra hour every day because I would have to make myself available earlier for them or later.
I do want to urge the Minister, and I'm sure they are, but I just would be remiss if I didn't bring it up: there is a school of thought about which way to go with the time change, as far as what's healthier for us as Canadians with our lack of sunlight. I just wanted to make sure that got on the record somewhere that that be considered because I believe there was one jurisdiction that actually was looking at doing it the opposite way from what healthcare professionals were recommending. I do want to make that statement. I do support that, just wanting to make sure that the Minister is looking at all the angles. Thanks.
Thank you. Minister, did you have any comments?
I think that, for those of us who reside in the southern part of the territory, this is a more live debate than maybe some of or northern colleagues, where it's either always dark or it's always sunny. I take the Member's comments, and I take all the comments here seriously. I do appreciate the feedback that we are getting. That's why we have these debates. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Thebacha.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I am just wondering why we are dealing with this issue when we don't even know if Alberta is going to be aligning with us. Until they align with us, why are we doing this? Why are we even putting this on the books? I don't understand the priorities, but it certainly isn't my priority. The engagement part is really important, and engagement is face-to-face because a lot of people probably would not be in favour of something like this if Alberta is not on the same page as we are. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you. If Alberta is not on the same page, I wouldn't be in favour of it, either. The reason that we are doing this now is because we don't want to be in a scenario where we are told in the middle of summer that Alberta is getting rid of their Daylight Saving Time and we don't have the ability to be responsive and now we are out of sync for however long it takes to get a legislative proposal together, send it to the committee, get it back from the committee, draft legislation, bring it to the House, give the committee 120 days to look at it, bring it back to a sitting, and then go from there. We could be six months behind, and it just seems needless. It's a relatively low-effort bill to draft. I'm not demeaning what Mr. Reddy has done, he's a miracle worker, but I think that it didn't take a lot of resources, and it'll save us a lot in the long run. Thank you.
