Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, at this time, to my knowledge, there is no equivalent legislation in the Northwest Territories akin to the Clare's Law system. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm curious to know what the Minister's take is on a law such as Clare's Law. I know that the Minister in her prior life was a criminal defense lawyer so I know she has a lot of experience in this area, as well has done a lot in her volunteering time with women's groups. So I'm curious to know what her thoughts are on a law like Clare's Law and would it work for us here in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, of course we sort of shed our past lives a little bit as Ministers. So, you know but I can speak to the issue from the perspective as a Minister responsible for the Status of Women. And certainly I know the Member appreciates, this is an area that it involves obviously the Minister of Justice. It would involve potentially Health and Social Services as they do work with women's shelters as well as other ministries across the government.
The challenge with a proposal such as a Clare's Law, which certainly could well fall within my responsibility to promote, is to strike the balance between empowering women by giving them the information women or others, to empower them with information about an abuser or a potential abuser or potential situation, while at the same time not putting the onus on a victim of violence or their family to be the ones that have to go and seek out the information and to not then allow others to say, well, if you had the information, you ought to have acted differently. So there's a lot of policy issues at play. But at the same time, the fact of having the question of what we can do to fundamentally empower women in those situations is really the discussion to be had. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the Minister's response. It's so easy to get caught up sort of in a black and white idea of things and then every time I have a great idea and I go talk to someone, I realize the multitude of reasons why it potentially isn't going to work. And so we always have to find that middle path so I do appreciate that.
I know, again, that this is probably likely in other departments as well but I'd like for the Minister to maybe speak a little bit around family shelters or intimatepartner shelters. It's my understanding we only have those in Yellowknife. And perhaps maybe the Minister could speak to how she is working with the staff and others to establish safe places for families and women and children in communities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I appreciate having a sense of where some questions go because it gives a chance for those of us working multidepartmentally to have some conversations and thanks to the folks at Health and Social Services, I can note there are in fact five territorial family violence shelters across different regions of the Northwest Territories. And I'm also pleased to note that given that these are territorial resources, that travel can be provided for women and children who live in communities outside of one with a shelter and no one should ever think that not having a shelter in their community would take away the opportunity to travel. It certainly makes it harder, Mr. Speaker, but I want to encourage that there are resources to support people who need to use those resources.
On a similar note, Mr. Speaker, we have recently filled the position of a family violence coordinator which will help support further development and coordination in this area. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I was going to leave my last question to sort of mull over what the Minister had responded and then ask her something based on that. So instead I'm just going to get in some favour with my colleague here from Thebacha and ask her, is that position a position in Yellowknife, or is it one that's been located outside of the capital? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don't have that as a confirmed. I expect it is likely a Yellowknife position, Mr. Speaker, although, again, I'm not entirely certain. It is joining in the sense of being a coordinator position and one that certainly will have to work interdepartmentally with a lot of departments and will certainly be expected to be coordinating work across the regions. Again, I'll have to confirm but that's the expectation I have. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Frame Lake.
Merci, Monsieur le President. My questions are for the Minister of Industry, Tourism and Investment. I'd like to follow up on questions I had yesterday about the GNWTChamber of Mines COVID19 recovery working group.
Mr. Speaker, I raised the issue of how these notes from these meetings seem to show that our government is helping the Chamber of Mines draft correspondence, and I want to cite a couple of examples.
On page 14 of the document I tabled a couple of days ago, this is in a June 23rd meeting, this is a direct quote, Mr. Speaker, "GNWT is willing to assist in the editing of the letter from industry if that would help".
From the context of that quote, Mr. Speaker, the letter appears to be going to the Mackenzie Valley Land and Water Board, and it's a request for relief from monitoring requirements for environmental licences and permits. And, of course, when Alberta did this during the pandemic, there was a lot of issues. Mr. Speaker, there's another place where an individual's actually named as assisting with the editing of letters. Can the Minister explain why our staff are helping the chamber of mines edit letters to co-management bodies? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member for Frame Lake. Colleagues, please keep the preamble short; just ask the questions. Minister of Finance.
I would gladly defer the question to another Minister, Mr. Speaker.
Laughter
Minister, thank you, and thank you for that question. Mr. Speaker, I know the Member mentioned the idea of context, and challenge of having minutes to work off of, and I acknowledge the Member is working off of minutes that have been redacted, is that, in fact, you don't necessarily have the full context. I have gone back to the department and specifically ask about this.
I would agree that I certainly was concerned to read that there might be inappropriate assistance happening. I was reassured, and I'm happy to be reassured, that again in the context the context of the meetings, that I was not at, is that in fact, they are they were meetings in the context of developing pandemic relief and pandemic assistance. This of course being back right early after the lockdown in June of 2020, so when the situation of identifying ways of relief and recovery was really very fresh and very new. And so what in fact was occurring and what may not be reflected in fulsome notes in terms of meeting minutes is that when the industry is writing to the Mackenzie Valley Land and Water Board or other co-management boards, the purpose and goal, from the perspective of the department, is to ensure that they know what exactly the position is that's being taken, that they understand the issues that are being faced, that they can engage with other departments in fact if we need to be formulating a position to respond, and may well be able to give some advice, which may or may not ever be taken by the Chamber of Mines but to be able to say, you know, look, you're going down a path that simply is unlikely to bear fruit or you're going down a path, you know, where we may be able to we would have to go back and make our own response to, so. That, as I understand, is the context of what occurred but, again, I appreciate, I have followed up with the department about this. And there's a line between supporting industry, any industry supporting any outside body and certainly doing that in the context of still maintaining our independence and the role that we have as government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for confirming that assistance is provided in drafting letters by the Chamber of Mines.
There's another set of minutes from July the 15th, and I want to read a direct quote, Mr. Speaker: "GNWT will discuss interim land withdrawals and how they can be addressed to facilitate mining activities."
Mr. Speaker, this would appear and this is GNWT this is not ITI. It appears to be a wholeofgovernment approach. I'd like the Minister to explain how this GNWT work on allowing mining activities and land withdrawals is consistent with our priorities and Cabinet's mandate to settle and implement Indigenous land rights. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to say this again very clearly on behalf of my own responsibility in the areas of the department that any statement about the government's position on land withdrawals on anything that is multidepartmental, that doesn't come from a single official like this. It has to be multidepartmental. It has to be wholeofgovernment. So, yes, this is, again, minutes which is reflective of the ITI department's staff that were attending minutes. And I, again, went back to them to say let's be very clear that when we attend these meetings, we don't we have to always be there mindful of the role and the position that is taken by the Government of the Northwest Territories.
I am reminded, of course, that land withdrawals are not only about necessarily lands being withdrawn for the purposes of Indigenous land negotiations and land settlements. There may well be a variety of other withdrawals taking place for protected areas, parks for example. And the purpose and the context here was in fact to be discussing that whole of process for all land withdrawals and all different types of land withdrawals and to be able to raise to be able to raise it in the perspective of industry with our colleagues at across the different departments of the Government of the Northwest Territories so that we can engage as a government internally on the kinds of discussions and the kind of balance that needs to be taking place within this within the territory of all the various interests at hand.
But, again, the position, it should never be it should be very clear from what I hope I've said yesterday and today that there is one position and it's taken on behalf of the government and that receiving stakeholder ideas, impressions, and reactions is but one part of what formulates the position of the government. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Merci, Monsieur le President. Thanks to the Minister for that. I think she needs to talk to her staff about getting the wholeofgovernment position correct.
But, Mr. Speaker, yesterday, the Minister was trying to compare the Business Advisory Council to this Chamber of Mines working group. And the Business Advisory Council has a public terms of reference. It's multistakeholder. There's a web page that the department keeps where the correspondence and recommendations from the council are publicly available. And I'm just wondering if the Minister can make a commitment to ensure that the or post the unredacted meeting summaries from this working group to a similar page so that we can have a little bit more transparency here, Mr. Speaker, and make sure the public understands what's actually happening in this working group, and Regular MLAs as well. Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the items that were redacted were redacted in keeping with the ATIPP process, the Access to Information and Protection of Privacy Act. Many of those redactions were in fact mandatory. They are not discretionary. If it is information that pertains to another individual, and there's been a name a person that is named alongside other information, such as their place of employment, then that is I believe and I'm not the ATIPP coordinator here, Mr. Speaker, but I believe that that would then be mandatory. So other elements may be discretionary. Had I known back in I guess April or March when these initial requests were being made, I may have been able to assist with some of the more discretionary elements. But even then, they're discretionary to apply the conditions of ATIPP to documents such as well, to any document that's going out under ATIPP. So I can certainly go back. There's probably some elements in there that we could unredact. There's a lot that I would prefer to unredact, to give a better sense of the context, to give a better sense of the understanding of the work that was happening. And I'll go back and do that and we'll see if we can perhaps table something that has more information. But, again, I am not the ATIPP coordinator. The point is to have a person that does this so that there's consistency when there's ATIPP redactions taking place. I'm happy to try and get more information out about the work that's been done. As I said yesterday, there's good reason for these organizations to meet and the work that they engage in should be well known. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Short supplementary. Member for Frame Lake.
Merci, Monsieur le President. I want to thank the Minister for that very helpful and long answer. And I look forward to a much greater transparency on these meetings. But, you know, Mr. Speaker, if these meetings were actually happening in almost any other jurisdiction in Canada, they would be regulated under lobbyists registration or lobbyists legislation. Mr. Speaker, we are one of two jurisdictions in Canada that does not have lobbyist legislation. And I think that's increasingly important, especially in the postevolution world where we have responsibilities for billions of dollars of resources. So can the Minister tell me whether our government is prepared to bring forward a bill legislation for lobbyist registration in the Northwest Territories? Mahsi, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm not sure that that type of legislation would necessarily fall under ITI.
The idea of having some sort of registered the idea of having some sort of public awareness, I see certainly no harm from that from the perspective of the as the ITI minister. In my view, Mr. Speaker, it would be beneficial for everyone in the industry to know of the work that is going on, to know of the extent of the efforts by officials, as well as by my office, to meet across the board with different industries, different stakeholders, individual businesses, all the different regions. Having that and having people know the efforts that we go into to do that engagement, in my view is only helpful. The kind of meetings we have should be known, and I certainly don't see any harm in that. Again, Mr. Speaker, that's probably not to take this suggestion forward, it's probably not one that would fall under ITI necessarily. But, again, I've certainly given some reasons why that would potentially be to the benefit of ITI. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Hay River South.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to go back and question the Minister of Education on the Hay River student busing. This is a major issue for our community with over 500 students and some having to travel up to 25 kilometers one way just to get to school.
Mr. Speaker, I have provided the Minister several days to come up with approximately $70,000 to assist the Hay River District Education Authority to continue student busing. Therefore, I'd ask the Minister if he has a cheque for me to take back and drop off to the Hay River District Educational Authority, or that he at least has a promise that funding is forthcoming. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member for Hay River South. Minister responsible for ECE.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As I stated last time, if this was as easy as cutting a cheque we wouldn't be here. This issue would be dealt with. The fact is we have an education system that is built on equality, not on not about being equitable; it's about being equal, so. And if I pay for busing in Hay River, I'd have to pay for busing in Fort Smith, and Yellowknife, in Inuvik, in Simpson. It doesn't matter if the communities need or not; we have to give them the money. I am working towards an equitable system where money goes where it's needed but currently, we have an equal system. So that being said, I don't have a cheque. However, clearly, people want the Minister to be accountable. You know, it might not be how our legislation is set up, but that's what people want. So I'm seeing what else I can do. I'm working with the department who has reached out to the superintendent of the district education council to try and ensure that we do get students bused to school so they can actually show up in school and learn. I assume that, you know, at the upcoming DEC meeting that the superintendent will have done this work on ways to possibly make this happen and bring forward some, you know, reasonable and cost effective solutions for the education council to mull over and hopefully approve. But failing that, I'm also going to offer the services of the Department of Education, Culture and Employment to the Hay River DEA to help them perhaps look at the books again and figure out if there's a way to move things around, although I know that is not a palatable option. There's a reason we're in this position, and it's because, you know, they've done that over and over again, year after year after year, and just don't see what other program they should cut in order to in order to have busing. So short answer, no. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there's seven Cabinet Members on the other side and if we divide $70,000 by seven, we've got only $10,000 from each department. So maybe you can get some help there.
Mr. Speaker, the community of Hay River has seen a decline in student enrolment in the last several years; however, we still have over 500 students and if the South Slave Divisional Education Council is not going to advocate for Hay River and find the funds for busing, then and then continue to continue cutting of staff and programs and services is no answer, because that's kind of the answer the authority has been getting.
So, Mr. Speaker, I ask the Minister if, again, if he will consider having the Hay River District Education Authority operate outside and independent of the South Slave Divisional Education Council. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You know, I have limited tools at my disposal to remedy this. But some regulatory changes is one of those tools and splitting the Hay River DEA from the South Slave DEC could be done through regulation. So I've asked the department to look into that process, what the costs would be, you know, how we could go about it. Ideally we want everyone to work together. I mean, it's a simple solution. This is a there isn't a nuclear option, you know, for a very simple problem. But I have started looking into that. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think he answered my question number 3 there, that there is a process and he's working through it.
So I'll go to question number 4 here, and, Mr. Speaker, a move such as this would require dividing the current funding between the South Slave Divisional Education Council and the Hay River District Education Authority. So, Mr. Speaker, based on the current South Slave Divisional Education Council budget and the number of student enrolments in Hay River, can the Minister confirm what the split would be and what impact would it have on this both the South Slave Divisional Education Council and the Hay River District Education Authority? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And it would be a lot of work, for one thing. There would have to be consultation with the education authority and obviously the district education council. The district education authority would have to make it very clear that this is what they wanted, and I haven't received that you know, there's been no resolution passed by the authority that I'm aware of. But the Hay River DEA comprises of about 42 percent of the student population of the south slave. So but probably close to $10 million that goes to the SSDEC would then be removed and allocated to a new DEA, a standalone DEA if that's what happened. There would also be a transfer of funds for administration. So there would be probably around a $400,000 reduction in administration funds to the South Slave EDC. And the way they work their funding, I think this year they're also transferring about half a million dollars from the Hay River DEA's budget to the DEC. So they might be close to about a million dollars less in funding to the DEC. So there's some significant impacts all around. And like I said, it's a simple problem. It's a simple solution. I think that the parties can get together, look at the numbers. If $70,000 doesn't work, well, I'm sure that we can move some numbers around. It doesn't have to be $70,000. Maybe it's $50,000. Maybe you get it down to $30,000. Like, it's not an impossible task. We just need everyone to get around the table and do what's best for the students. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member Hay River South.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And it might be a hundred thousand. But, Mr. Speaker, there's a simple solution to it, but we have to push the fact that students may be without busing, and, you know, as part of, you know, our responsibility to make sure that students have access to an education and to get to school. And, you know, it's we can say that if we pay for Hay River, we've got to pay for everybody. But that's not a bad thing either if it's allowing students to go to school. So, you know, what I would encourage the Minister is to push the council and the education authority and meet with them and hopefully they'll come up with a solution fairly quickly, because this also impacts businesses in Hay River. You know, we'll have a business that provides busing services. They're going to have no work. Their drivers are going to have no work. You know, and it just goes on and on so I think and you know, it may be small, but it is important to Hay River. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. No question.
Thank you, taken as a comment. Oral questions. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. My questions today are for the Minister of Finance. I want to begin by focusing on the staffing appeals process. And I've read the staffing appeals process guidelines a couple times, and as far as I can tell, they are so narrow that the vast majority of applicants don't even have access to an appeal. So my first question is, what percentage of people who apply on GNWT jobs are eligible for an appeal? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister responsible for Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think I've heard what percentage of people who apply. Mr. Speaker, I can say any employees of the GNWT who apply would certainly be eligible to file an appeal. So there's a hundred percent of someone who's already an employee. Obviously not everyone would necessarily selfdisclosed as being an employee at the time that they make an appeal or make an application. Similarly, Mr. Speaker, anyone who has staffing priority under the Affirmative Action Policy also has a right of appeal. And, again, it's not necessarily obvious that everyone would selfidentify as being a candidate under the Affirmative Action Policy. So it's difficult to necessarily to say exactly the percentage ofapplicants who would necessarily have that right of appeal if they aren't selfidentifying as such.
What I can say as well, though, Mr. Speaker, in 2021, 16.5 percent of all applicants who applied on positions with the GNWT's, to our knowledge, were eligible to appeal. Just knowing that there's some limitation depending on people's selfdisclosure. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So of those 16.5 percent of people who applied for GNWT jobs who were eligible to appeal, when I look and try to figure out exactly what the grounds of an appeal could be or within the process, I have a hard time let alone those people who just didn't get a job, Mr. Speaker. So my question for the Minister of Finance is what information is provided to an unsuccessful candidate who would be eligible for appeal, at 16.5 percent, to help them formulate and understand the grounds of an appeal. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So, Mr. Speaker, an unsuccessful candidate eligible for appeal is able would be provided with the staffing appeals information guide, the staffing appeals brochure, and the staffing appeals application. Mr. Speaker, I wanted to note while I wasn't here back in 2018, at the time then standing committee had provided some recommendations to the Department of Finance to improve those materials, and I understand in some inquiries here that indeed some materials have been made more plain language and there has been an effort to at least to improve the nature of the information that's being provided to those eligible to lodge an appeal. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, and the Minister is correct. In 2018, the Standing Committee on Government Operations recommended that some plain language documents would be provided. And I'm glad to hear that committee recommendation has been followed through with. So thank you to the department for that.
Mr. Speaker, when I was looking for the last major analysis on the GNWT's human resources practices, I had to go back 20 years to Grant Thorne, a law office, and the consultants then found that the appeal process is perceived as not conducive to an independent and fair hearing and it leads to a finding and it does not lead to a finding of greater openness, transparency or independence. Mr. Speaker, I tend to agree with that 20yearold analysis of our staffing appeals process. And to my view, not much has changed.
My question for the Minister of Finance is has the GNWT ever had its process independently reviewed to determine if it is procedurally fair? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in hearing the Member's statement, I have been trying to go back to just see if, in fact, something has happened. Obviously, I have not been here for a particularly long time. To my best knowledge, I don't know that there's been a recent complete overall or complete review of the process of human resources. Certainly, part of the work that's happening right now with respect to the Indigenous recruitment retention framework as a significant framework that's meant to apply to all departments and be a major part of human resources work, that that doesn't entail and involve a review of the processes of human resources to ensure that some of the some of the tension points and pinch points that I know the Member has already raised do not become barriers and are not barriers. So, again and although I'm not and I will say too, though, that the appeals process does involve staffing review officers who are independent from the human resources team. So, you know, while again simply put, no, there's not been a thorough or complete review in my time or in my recent awareness. There are some efforts underway to continually improve that process, the human resources process. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. In the 20192020, the most recent public service annual report, 82 of the 82 appeals that were filed were denied, Mr. Speaker. Previously, the department has used this to say there's no problems with the staffing process; it's working out just fine; all the appeals, you know, are denied. Mr. Speaker, I would say that this is a fundamental problem with the appeals process in and people are giving up hope on appealing if there's no hope of actually being successful, regardless of whether an independent officer is reviewing it.
So furthermore, Mr. Speaker, the end of the appeals process is sometimes, you know, the job competition goes out, sometimes it's just even if you are successful, a notation that, you know, perhaps some processes were not followed. I actually am not aware of anyone who is after going through a successful appeal, which there were none last year, been offered the job.
So my question for the Minister of Finance, has anyone who has ever appealed a decision actually been after actually been offered the job once appealed? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I don't have the complete history of all hiring. I can say in 20172018, and I suspect the Member has this information already, as it went through to the last committee review. But that it was at around 1 percent and that 20182019, again, that it was five of 71 where the appeals were upheld. As far whether those individuals go on to get employment or choose to get employment or choose to seek further employment with the government, I can't say. That's not necessarily a stat that would even be possible to garner, again not knowing whether or not the individual themselves may want to selfidentify.
But, Mr. Speaker, you know, I certainly don't take the view that just because we've had, you know, no successful appeals means that the process itself is perfect. I've certainly dealt with many questions in the House over the last year and a half about human resources and certainly get a lots of inquiries to my office about the work of human resources. There is a lot going on right now in human resources to ensure that it is modern, to ensure that it is responsive, to ensure that it is contextual to the Northwest Territories and to the fact that we are a 50 percent Indigenous Canadian community in the Northwest Territories. So I appreciate the Member's opening remarks, acknowledging that there's good people doing work. There are good people doing work. And there is always room for improvement, and we're getting there. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, my questions are for the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment. Would the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment support the NWT Arts Council as an independent arts organization? Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Kam Lake. Minister responsible for Education, Culture and Employment.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. When the Member for Frame Lake asked these questions not long ago, I gave the answer that I would look in to the viability of creating an independent arm's length arts organization in the territory, and that is still the plan. We are going to look into this, what would it look like, what would it cost, and what could it do. So we're beginning that work. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I'm wondering about timelines. I like to have timelines. So since the department recognizes that the 181.5 million federal dollars flowing to the Canada Arts Council for the arts, sorry, is not accessible to the territorial government, when will the department commit to reviewing the organizational structure for the NWT arts so that we can make it an arm's length organization. So I know they're looking into it right now. We've just come off of almost two years of the department reviewing an arts strategy. So I'm wondering what kind of timeline are they working towards.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So the work to determine when that happens is underway. We are going to do a full review of arts funding programs across the territory. This isn't something that can be done in isolation, just creating an arts council. We need to take stock of what we're doing, how much are we spending, and how effective is it, and how can it be improved by the creation of something like an arm's length arts council. So that work is happening over the coming years. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'm wondering if the Department of Education, Culture and Employment has the capacity to complete this work during the length of the 19th Assembly? Thank you.
