Madam Chair, I would suggest that go to the deputy minister, please.
Thank you. Deputy minister MacKay.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So the overall project is $19,736,000. $14,804,000 of that is paid for by the fund. So it's about 75 percent of the total project. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm happy to see we're extending fibre along the highway to Tuk. I think as has been stated previously, I think every time we build a road it's good to extend the fibre line as well along with it.
Can I just get clarification. Who will own this fibre line at the end? Will this be wrapped into the entire Mackenzie Valley P3, or is this to be owned by Northwestel? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, this is right now what's on what's on paper here is the anticipated extension to the Mackenzie Valley fibre line, and so indeed if that proceeds, it would just be an extension of that. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Can I just have the Minister speak to whether we anticipate to run into the kind of last mile problem when we get fibre to Tuk? I know we have fibre running up the valley, but it actually doesn't exist in many communities because any internet service provider has not then taken it, built the hub, and ran it to peoples' homes. That's often cost prohibitive for even Northwestel to do with millions of subsidies.
Is there someone on the other end of Tuk or expecting to become the ISP to actually make sure we complete the last mile of this. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the Mackenzie Valley fibre line all the way through up to and including – if it comes to include Tuktoyaktuk, it is never meant to be a final inthehome service. But what has happened in the last year or two years is that Northwestel, by virtue of the agreements they have with CRTC, because they are very directly regulated by CRTC compared to other providers in other parts of the country, are under an agreement right now to provide the availability of fibre to the home. That last mile connection is now meant to be available through them under agreement with the CRTC. So this is not a GNWT project. It's not a GNWT "thing" per se. We're certainly being kept aware of the pace of their work and being kept aware of what's going on. So in fact, they're anticipating work in Tuk for the next two years, if I recall their timeline correctly, that actually has nothing necessarily to do. Like, the services in Tuk will improve without necessarily there being any changes to the Mackenzie Valley fibre line. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So when we built the Mackenzie Valley fibre line, I remember speaking to one of the internet service providers in Inuvik. And he said once that was built and he wasn't having to purchase broadband off of Northwestel telephone infrastructure, his costs went down about 99 percent. And I just think that is one of the success stories of the GNWT actually owning the backbone to telecoms infrastructure is we can allow competition and we can, you know, create a competitive internet environment that ultimately reduces costs.
I'm just curious when we extend it to Tuk, do we expect to change our current wholesale rate at all, and in fact just lower it is really my ask. I don't really believe we need to run this P3 at any sort of profit, and we should be selling the broadband as cheaply as possible. But are there any anticipated changes for the purchaser at the end of the Tuk line for the wholesale price they pay us under this. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I don't have the information of that being under consideration right now. Perhaps I just check in with Mr. Wind and see if he has any comments on that question. Thanks.
Thank you. Mr. Wind.
Thank you, Madam Chair. At this point, no, we are not anticipating any changes to the wholesale model. We think the wholesale model is quite aggressive right now. Thank you.
Maybe just a further comment. Once the Mackenzie Valley fibre link is established there, it will open the opportunity for third party service providers if they choose to make their own investments in the last mile alongside Northwestel, such as what we do see in Inuvik. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Yellowknife North.
No further questions, Madam Chair.
Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. I think I heard the Minister say that this is going to be just an extension of the Mackenzie Valley fibre link in terms of its ownership operation. Maybe I misheard that. But why would we be spending $19 million on something we would then give over to a third party to operate and maintain or whatever? If we're spending the money, why don't we own the fibre? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding but the Mackenzie Valley fibre link is an asset of the GNWT. So, maybe I'm misunderstanding, Madam Chair.
Member.
Thanks. Maybe it's my total ignorance, then, about the Mackenzie Valley fibre link. I'd understood that there's some kind of P3 arrangement where Northwestel owns it and we're somehow or whether they were contracted to just build it, but I'd understood that we're somehow working with those guys to actually lease it out somehow or pay some sort of some sort of an arrangement, but we don't actually own the thing until 30 or 35 years or something down the road.
If we're paying $19 million for this 140 kilometer fibre link, why don't we own it outright and operate it ourselves rather than give it to Northwestel to operate. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, this is a P3 arrangement. The Mackenzie Valley fibre line is a P3 arrangement right now. So similar to others where determining the kind of risk that is at play, that the best way to mitigate the risk and maximize the availability of the spend that we have for an asset, was done through a P3 arrangement. So it's a GNWT asset, as I've said. It's reflected on our GNWT, you know, books, if you will. But for us to necessarily be the singular party involved would have involved a cost, an upfront cost that is difficult for the government to manage. That's why we get into P3s a lot of the time, is either in order to mitigate the risk or because it's difficult to finance. And this is in the same category, Madam Chair. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. So how much money is Northwestel putting up for this? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Madam Chair, I'm checking my books, and I'm going to see if perhaps Rick Wind has that at the tip of his fingers, please. I'll suggest it go to him.
Thank you. Mr. Wind.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Unfortunately, no, I don't have that at my fingertips. Perhaps this is something we can bring back.
Thank you. Member.
Okay, thanks. So I'm trying to figure this out. So the feds are putting $5 million $14 million into this; we're putting five or maybe six at least it seems to show here. Northwestel is putting an unknown amount in, and we don't know have what the total cost of the project is. I'm just trying to reconcile all this. Does anybody know what the total cost of this project is. Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Total project cost is $19.7 million, Madam Chair. Thank you.
Thank you. Member.
Okay. So what we're being asked to approve here is $6 million for next year. Are there further costs beyond this anticipated in future years for GNWT in terms of construction? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So Madam Chair, just the breakdown as it stands right now, there's been about a million dollars invested thus far just in terms of preparing and doing the necessary level of studies I would anticipate to plan for this. 20222023, it was $6 million. And 20232024, the remainder of $12.7 million. So, you know, Madam Chair, I think this is an important project to discuss. This would bring fibre to Tuktoyaktuk by 2024. And as I have alluded to, this Northwestel is already under obligation to CRTC to bring in to upgrade the fibre or sorry, the broadband availability and broadband services across the territories to all communities, including Tuktoyaktuk, regardless of fibre expansion.
So, you know, is fibre better? Arguably, one would say yes but is it necessary? There are other projects underway. Just they're not ours. It is not the GNWT's project to be doing that. That is Northwestel. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks, Madam Chair. Yeah, I guess I remain rather confused about all this. If there was a way to get further information about the ownership and operation of the Inuvik to Tuk fibre, how much we're paying, how much the feds are paying, how much Northwestel's paying, that would be really helpful. So is the Minister prepared to provide that information. Thanks.
Thank you, Member. Minister.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm happy to provide the breakdown, certainly.
Member for Frame Lake.
Thanks. And thanks for that commitment. I too, like my colleague from Yellowknife North, I'm concerned about building fibre to a community and then nobody's really going to help people get hooked up to it. So is that going to be just Northwestel's responsibility? What role do we play? Do we expect other third parties to suddenly show up in Tuk and start connecting fibre to people's homes? How is that going to work? Thanks, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, Madam Chair, the Government of the Northwest Territories is not an internet service provider. We are obviously the owner of the Mackenzie Valley fibre line which gives that backbone through which other companies can then, as was described out of Inuvik, provide internet services directly. We are obviously a customer, and we can certainly be an advocate and a supporter, as we have been, and I would suggest that that's been successful given that what the obligations that CRTC has imposed on to Northwestel to provide additional services.
But the government is not the service provider here. I wasn't here in the last Assembly to know what led to such level of confusion. But that is not the role of the government. So the role of the government here is to do what we can to help enable this industry, to help support the industry, to make funds available through the federal government, to advocate for that, but we are not the internet service provider that is going to come with, you know, our screwdrivers and our drills and drill a hole in someone's wall to put their fibre in. I'm sorry, Madam Chair. That's just not what we do.
Member.
