Merci, Monsieur le President. Committee wishes to consider Tabled Document 72319(2), 20232024 Capital Estimates, with Health and Social Services and Industry, Tourism and Investment and Committee Report 3319(2) and Bill 52. Mahsi, Mr. Chair.
Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. We will take a short recess. Mahsi.
---SHORT RECESS
Committee, we've agreed to consider Tabled Document 72319(2) Capital Estimates 20232024. Committee, we will now consider the Department of Health and Social Services. Does the Minister of Health and Social Services wish to bring witnesses into the Chamber?
I do, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi. Sergeantatarms, please escort the witnesses into the Chamber.
Would the Minister please introduce the witnesses.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. On my left is Kyla Kakfwi Scott, the assistant deputy minister. And on my right is Perry Heath, the director of Infrastructure.
Committee has agreed to forego general comments. Does the committee agree to proceed to the detail contained in the tabled document?
Agreed.
Committee, the Department of Health and Social Services begins on page 38. We will defer the department totals and review the estimates by activity summary, beginning at page 39, with administrative and support services, with information item on page 40.
Health and Social Services, administrative and support services, infrastructure investments, $500,000. Does the committee agree?
Agreed.
Committee, please turn to page 41, health and social programs, with information item on pages 42 and 43. Health and social services programs give me a moment, please.
Committee, going back to page 41, health and social programs and information items on page 42 and 43, are there any questions? Mr. Johnson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. My questions are regarding the wellness and recovery centre which I believe is the shelter that is planned to be built. Well, I guess it was originally planned to be built kind of by the old St. John's Ambulance there on what I believe is I don't know the streets in Yellowknife. So can I just confirm well, whether that is the location or whether I know there was a request from the City of Yellowknife to put it in the current location of the day shelter where the trailers are but whether we have decided on a location? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister.
Yes, thank you. We met with the City of Yellowknife. They've expressed an interest in having the shelter located near the old Northern Frontier Visitors Centre, which is where the current day shelter is. There's been no decision yet on that location. There are a number of pros and cons to each of the locations in consideration. Thank you.
Mahsi. Followup, Mr. Johnson?
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Can I get well, this says 20242025 for completion, you know, which I assume would mean construction, you know, next fiscal, probably pretty soon. Can I just get an update of when the estimated completion for this project is or whether we're on track and on time, on budget. Thank you.
Minister. Yes, Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the budget for this project has changed and the completion date has changed, and I'll ask my colleague Perry Heath to provide some additional detail. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi. Mr. Heath.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's our hope that once the location is finalized, we'll be in a position to finalize the design on this facility early in the next fiscal year, or potentially even late this fiscal year. We would expect that, again, once the location is determined, it will be a duration of approximately 24 to 36 months to go through construction completion.
Again, the Minister did make discussions about the overall cost of this project, and we are currently in conversations with Canada under the ICIP program for funding and awaiting decision. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Johnson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah, okay, I heard, you know, up to 36 months for construction. So I imagine that this even this 20242025 in the capital estimates here is probably ambitious. So it seems there's some issues with the cost. Is there any hope I can get an estimate of what this building is going to cost? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister.
Yes, thank you. There are a lot of unknowns at this point because the location has not been fixed. We know a lot about the 51st Street location, but the Northern Frontier Visitors Centre location has a number of challenges. And for additional detail, I'll ask Mr. Heath to fill in.
Mr. Heath.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's no secret to anybody that the Northern Frontier Visitors Centre site is probably one of the most complex geotechnical locations in Yellowknife. There is one in one location, there's probably three or four feet of permafrost. In another location, there's probably 110 feet of permafrost. As you can probably imagine, that makes it very difficult to come with a construction estimate when you are trying to figure out the lengths of the piles. We would have to do an extensive investigation before we could finalize exactly what that ledger would be. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Johnson.
Thank you. I see that there's potential for ICIP funding, and I heard that we were making a decision there. Can I get a somewhat answer of how much ICIP funding we're expecting, and if we can't get a dollar amount, is it a 75 percent expectation of capital funding? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the issues are, as Mr. Heath said, that without knowing which location is the final choice then it's very difficult to estimate the project cost but this is a 75/25 project.
Mr. Johnson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Always happy to hear 75/25, 75 cent federal infrastructure projects, especially for social infrastructure. That's a good job if we can accomplish that. I guess I see that there is $26 million for large capital projects. You know, can someone tell me how much money that the department is currently asking the Assembly for presently? I get we don't have a final cost but my understanding is by asking for this money, we're going to go borrow it for a project that has not secured federal funding, has not selected a location, and whose estimated completion date is inaccurate in the document in front of me. So how much money is the department currently asking us for? Thank you.
Minister.
Yes, thank you. This project was recent it was originally considered to cost in the range of $10 million. The new cost is unknown. I agree that that may not be an easy sell for the federal government but until the location is sorted out, we are not able to firm up the cost. Thank you.
Mr. Johnson.
Thank you. And my understanding is that we've actually awarded some contracts and some of this has already been tendered for the original location. Do we have a number of how much money we have already spent to date on this project?
Minister.
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. It's true, there's a design contract that has been awarded for the 51st Street location. And for additional information on that, I'll ask Mr. Heath to provide.
Mr. Heath.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, we went through a public procurement and hired a local architecture firm to do the design. The estimated value of that design contract is $650,000. It was awarded publicly, and we are approximately onethird spent.
Mahsi. Mr. Johnson.
Yeah, thank you. You know, when you spent a couple hundred thousand dollars on design for a building in one location and then the whole other location goes up, you know, it risks hundreds of thousands of dollars in taxpayer money being spent on nothing. But I guess can we just get an update on when we expect a final decision to be made on location? Thank you.
Mahsi. Minister.
Yes, thank you. We own the land. We have a technical assessment and an environmental assessment of the 51st Street location. The design was initiated on that basis. The city has asked us to reconsider the location, which we've said we're going to do. But at this point there are quite a number of unknowns, such as whether we can access the land to do feasibility studies, geotechnical studies, what it would cost to purchase that land, what kind of redesign would be necessary as a result of that purchase, so there are some substantial unknowns at this point. And it's not entirely within our control. The land is for sale by a private individual and access to the land is up to him. Thank you.
Mahsi. I beg committee's indulgence; if I can just have a minute.
Mahsi for that. Ms. Nokleby.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. First, could I just get a clarification that the GNWT does not own the land that the current visitors centre is on or sorry, not the visitors centre but the current location of the and I'm going to call it the wrong shelter, which the temporary shelter that was on the site of the old visitors centre; we don't own that land? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi for that. Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll ask Mr. Heath to answer that, thank you.
