Mahsi cho. Mr. Johnson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I am just kind of now we have this new approach to budgeting. You know, if you look at the last three years, we spent $30 million, $40 million, $40 million, $7 million this year. So there's been a radical drop in spending on longterm care. And then I look over at the list of projects, and three are in planning. But which I get is why there's way less money here, I think we kicked some for planning. But can I just get a sense of the so this current fiscal that we're in right now, we're spending $40 million, and I assume some of the previous fiscal's carried over. But what are we actually building right now for longterm care? Like, what would that $40 million in the current fiscal be getting us? Is it all the Hay River facility that I see here being the only one that's not in planning? Thank you
Mahsi. Minister.
Yes, thank you as I mentioned, the site of the Hay River longterm care, which is the old HH William's site, flooded in the spring. And so there's a question about whether that site is still suitable for building the longterm care on. So that location is now in question. In 2021, the location that we had planned for the Fort Simpson longterm care flooded. So that location is also in question. So that's one of the reasons that these schedules have been adjusted. I'll just ask Mr. Heath if he would like to add anything further to the Hay River project, which was the project we thought was furthest along. Thank you
Mahsi for that. Mr. Heath.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The majority of money currently being expended in Hay River is actually for the demolition of the HH Williams facility. We went to a public RFP, awarded a contract to a local contractor for approximately I believe it was $2 million for that work. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi. Mr. Johnson.
Yeah, thank you. You know, I sorry, this is perhaps me not understanding how exactly capital estimates working. But, you know, we have $41 million for the fiscal we're presently in. I assume we are trying to spend $41 million in this fiscal. But I don't understand how we get to that number if some of it is demolition, and there's risk planning. Is there some other major project here? Or I guess also what I'm asking is are we going to spend $41 million this year on longterm care, or is that number just completely unrealistic at this point? Thank you
Mahsi. Minister.
Yes, I think the missing piece here is the Stanton Legacy Project, which is partly a longterm care project. And so I'll ask Mr. Heath to provide additional detail on the spending on that project. Thank you
Mr. Heath.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The overall construction budget that spans over multiple years for legacy was awarded for the sum of approximately $47 million. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Johnson.
Yes, okay. I think that does answer my question. So, and the reason I don't see that here is because the estimated completion for that is this fiscal, and we are on budget and on time for Stanton Legacy opening at the end of this fiscal and spending this $40 million or whatever the number 40 something million dollars that it costs, is that correct? Thank you
Mahsi. Minister.
Yes, the estimated completion time by the contractor is the end of this calendar year. There will need to be a commissioning period, and then the various components that are occupying the building the extended care unit, the longterm care beds on the third floor, and the Frame Lake clinic, audiology, and rehab on the main floor. Those will be phased in the next fiscal year. So just as a reminder, this is the capital budget. So there will be O and M costs that will come in the form of a supplementary appropriation. Thank you.
Mr. Johnson.
No further questions. Thank you
Mahsi. Ms. Cleveland.
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. So I was on the same page, sorry, as MLA Johnson. I won't fully repeat what he has said but my concern is that three out of four of these longterm care facilities are in planning phases. The planning phase is estimated completion of 2025 like, the year that is under estimated completion, that's the estimated completion of the planning phase, is that correct?
Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Heath will clarify that.
Mr. Heath.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So for Fort Simpson, Fort Smith, and Inuvik, what's projected is the completion of planning which encompasses needs assessment, operational plan, function program, and schematic design, and class C cost estimate. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi for that. Ms. Cleveland.
Thank you very much. And sorry, I'm having a hard time hearing Mr. Heath at times. I don't know if we can turn up his microphone; it could just be my ears, so I apologize for that.
So my concern is that given that this is at the planning stage, not the actual facilities will be done at the estimated completion time that, really, the soonest we're going to have additional longterm care facilities in the Northwest Territories would be the 20272028 fiscal year, which is another six years away from now. And a lot of these facilities are already late, I guess, or have been pushed back from when they were expected. And I have concerns about this given that one of the priorities of this Assembly was aging in place. And the infrastructure deficit of being able to properly care for our elders right now is huge. And so given as well that MACA has made a commitment of completing new flood maps this fall, is there any opportunity to advance some of these estimated completion timelines in order to see additional facilities in our territory sooner? Thank you
Minister.
Yes, thank you the Stanton Legacy building will have 72 beds of 74 beds of longterm care. They won't all open at once; they're not all needed at once. But we anticipate opening 17 of them in the next fiscal year. And the building will be ready to have more beds phased in as necessary. The project in Hay River in particular, had there not been a flood this year, would have continued on to a nearer completion. But unfortunately, we have to wait until we know what the new flood maps look like before we select a location for that. Thank you
Mahsi for that. Ms. Cleveland.
Yeah, thank you very much Mr. Chair. I guess in here, and I know this isn't new information to the department, but I think it need to be said, is, especially with the state of the territory right now, our elders and having elders in communities is so important to community members and to the mental health of community members and the mental health of our elders and to the quality of life of our elders. And so I think this is making pathways for elders to be able to age in place is incredibly important, and this is a piece of that puzzle. And so I really do encourage the department to please move these along, I guess, as much as possible.
And in regards to Stanton Legacy opening up and the beds opening up, can the Minister just confirm what day they expect to be able to move their first residents into Stanton Legacy? Thank you.
Minister.
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I'm not able to give a date at this time for the first resident to move in. What I can say is that I can provide waiting list information. The largest waiting list presently is in the Beaufort Delta. It's 15 individuals. So there is a waitlist I think in almost every location, except for Fort Smith, of somewhere between one and 15 individuals. So obviously we are interested in having the longterm care facilities available.
Our commitment to aging in place has as much to do with home care and supports provided for people to stay in their own homes as it does to put them into facilities which may or may not be in their communities. So this is a continuum of care that we're trying to provide here, from supports in people's homes to when they need 24hour care to go into longterm care. Thank you
Mahsi. Ms. Cleveland.
Yeah, thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and I appreciate that from the Minister. I want to understand a little bit more given that it seems like Hay River's our best bet for longterm care outside of Yellowknife. I want to understand from the Minister if their intent is to move the facility because of where the flood waters came to, or is it to redesign, and if the Minister can confirm if the flood waters came up to where the existing location was expected to be, or what specifically is needing to change because of the flood this year. Thank you.
Mahsi for that. Minister.
Yes, thank you, I'll ask Mr. Heath to provide the detail on that.
Mr. Heath.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. There's two predominant dimensions that's influencing the decision around it. The first one is the original HH Williams. The base level floor was about three feet under water. And so if we had built a new facility, as we originally intended, the electrical, mechanical, kitchen, and all the services, would have been three feet under water. So very clearly, we wouldn't be able implement with that design.
The other element was that facility was without services for nine days, and when I mean services, I mean power, water and sewer. It's impossible to maintain continuity of a service program if you don't have water or sewer and power for a duration of nine days. The facility was evacuated. It was originally evacuated in part to the health centre, which remained operational, and then eventually people were evacuated outside of the community.
So our concern is striking a balance between moving forward with a project on a schedule that it's our preference to do it on, and striking that balance between building a facility that we can guarantee runs 365 days a year, and we do not have to evacuate. So that's the challenge we're up against. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mahsi for that. Mr. Jacobson.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. You know, I just I would be remiss if I didn't say anything. You know, I've been asking for elders facilities in my communities, quality of life for my elders, being shipped to Inuvik, not being able to see family. You know, it's pretty tough for the elder and pretty tough on the family. And I made a comment some elder made a comment to me. He said the only time I'll see my whole family again is when I go home in a box. That's not right. Unacceptable. Quality of life for our elders, double standard. Double standard for southern to northern. I'm really I'm happy that you guys in the communities that are getting more beds but Inuvik getting more beds, that's just taking members from my riding. Moving them to Inuvik when we already pay a high cost of living for travel for the airline tickets. They're over $1,000. It's easier to it's cheaper to travel from Yellowknife to Edmonton return than it is to get a oneway ticket from Inuvik to Sachs Harbour. It's really a double standard. I really want this before, you know, we should be planning smaller units going into the communities where they're we're partnering up with the community corporation to make try to make it for all elders for aging in place and not having such a double standard. And it's really it's disheartening because I go to the hospital in Inuvik, I see my elders there that want to go home. Sad. But then we go before there were 48 beds, now there's 24. I really am disheartened. Double standard for the northern people of my riding in Nunakput. Double standard for my elders. Until something's done to work together with this department and with this government, they should be ashamed of themselves on that. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Just a comment.
Mahsi for that, and bringing that up too. I'll allow the Minister to reply if she would like. Mahsi.
Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair. And I appreciate that the Member is frustrated with not having a longterm care facility in his constituency. In fact, most constituencies in the NWT don't have longterm care facilities because there needs to be a certain size of population to make them cost effective.
What we've tried to do in places like Nunakput is provide home care. We provide it everywhere. But with a special focus in places that are remote, like the communities of Nunakput, to increase home care to enable people to stay at home. But there comes a point where the elders need 24hour nursing. And that's what tips them into longterm care.
To talk more about the department's philosophy in situating longterm care, I'd ask the assistant deputy minister of corporate services and cultural safety, Ms. Kakfwi Scott, to comment, please.
Mahsi. Ms. Kakfwi Scott.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think it's it's hard to talk just about capital because, of course, buildings don't exist outside of the programs and services that we offer in them. Longterm care is a really important part of being able to provide the right care and services for elders. It's not the only thing that we are working towards. There's a lot of engagement taking place right now on the development of an elders’ strategy. There's been lots of work on the continuum of care for elders and seniors. Aging in place really means that, as much as possible, we want people to be staying in their home communities. We want them to be in their own homes with their own families and to have access to the supports and services that they need to stay there. When people get to a point where they do need that 24hour nursing care, where they need to have supports that can only be provided in a facility, it's important that those facilities are in place and that those beds are ready for people. So it's all connected to each other. It's important that all of that work is moving forward together and that we're really thinking about where there are gaps in the continuum of services and how we can change our work to do that.
It's also something that we are developing, the department's work in cultural safety that is important. If people do have to leave their home communities, if they need to be further away from their families in order to receive the health care that they might need, that we're doing that as much as possible in a culturally safe way and making sure that people still have connections to the things that are important to them about their families and their cultures.
Mahsi for that. Mr. Jacobson.
Thank you for that. You know, home care, it works good until it's so much pressure on the family that they have to stay up 24 hours a day taking care of their mother or their father or their loved one that they're not going to want to let go. They're going to push themselves right to the very end until they have no choice, until they burn themselves out. And that's the kind of that's where we're from. That's where I come from. We don't want to let our elders go because once they're in Inuvik they're not going to come home.
Like, you know, working, I did talk to the Minister about this. I mean, I'm kind of off topic but I did talk to the Minister about this, by working together with the community corporations and the communities and with the IRC. And then COVID hit, it fell short. But now we got to get to that next level to provide four beds, or four or five beds into a community and be able to service everybody to age in place. And, you know, it's if I know with the federal government, with Inuvialuit Regional Corporation, with our government, I think we could build a four or fivebed facility in each community of Ulukhaktok and Paulatuk and Tuk and being able to take care of our elders in place. And I hope we could go down that road, Mr. Chair. Thank you
I didn't hear any question there, so we'll take it as a comment. Mahsi. Any further questions from committee? All right.
Health and Social Services, on page 44, long term and continuing care services, infrastructure investments, $6,989,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, Members. We'll now return to the department summary found on page 38. Health and Social Services, 20232024 Capital Estimates, $35,904,000. Does committee agree? Member for Frame Lake.
