Thank you, much. Yeah, I think we just go back to, like it's much like the medical travel discussion we've had. Like, there's an issue here we need to solve because this is just going to end up costing the taxpayer more and more as time goes on, not less and less. And there's an additional cost to staff morale and productivity within the health care system that needs to be looked at as well. And I know the health Minister is here listening, finance Minister's here. I am confident we are going to move forward as an Assembly on this and look at health care sustainability as we move into budgets that are not primarily in term of supply and are actually operational budgets. So I look forward to what's coming in May and June when we get a real picture of what measures are being put in place to control the use of agency nurses and hopefully to ban them in the future. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Your time is up. I'm going to move on. Is there any further questions? Don't see any, I'm going to continue on now. Supplementary estimates oh sorry, I'm going to go to the Member from YK North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I will start with just one question about the agency nurse budget. And so was anything allocated for agency nurse contracts in the main budget for 20232024, or is this all coming forward in supplementary requests?
Go to the Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. There's this component here, and then the remainder of that 5.5 that I had mentioned is coming from a reallocation. The Stanton Legacy Building hasn't come online as anticipated, and so some of what had been allocated to that was able to be moved for to put towards this. Thank you.
Thank you. YK North Member.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess what I'm getting at is did we not budget for any agency nurses in the 20232024 budget? And if so, was there an assumption that we would not need any? Leading to the question, how could we have been so far off in our assumption or prediction that we expected we would need none, and we ended up needing $5.5 million worth. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'm going to the Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I mean, as of right now, or at least as of February 20th, I understand there were only seven agency nurses employed. So the number can vary fairly significantly. And obviously it's certainly hoped for reasons already described to not require any. In order to offset the need for agency nurses with vacancies within the department, those staffing dollars, when a position is vacant, can then be utilized to deal with the vacancy, namely, by bringing in an agency nurse. It's not supposed to be a longterm solution. So obviously if they're fully staff or more fully staffed, then you don't need to have an agency nurse. But it's not a budget item. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from YK North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So moving on to child and family supports, which we see an increase in $1.187 million over expected budget this year. What is the source of some of the increased costs more than was anticipated for 20232024?
Thank you. I'm going to go to Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, Mr. Chair, I will just need a moment here to see well, one of the sources for the increases, Mr. Chair, is an increase to the foster care rates that's being implemented. There's also actually, I think that's probably it. That's probably it, Mr. Chair. If I'm incorrect, I will oh, and then, of course, there's an increased number of placements as well, which is then driving that further given the increase to the rates. Thank you.
Thank you. I want to go to the Member for YK North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So that is disheartening to hear that there are increased rates of children in foster care. I just want to confirm and this is sort of a running theme of my mine throughout these deliberations, but confirm that going forward budgets will be adjusted accordingly based on the new foster care rates so that we don't have to keep coming back for supplementary estimates?
Thank you. I want to go to the Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And, Mr. Chair, I first just wanted to note I was misreading the change and the increase to the rates is coming in in March of the well, of this year, but this is really just attributable to the fact of there being an increase in overall costs in the program and the increase in individuals who are relying on that. But, you know, as far as how the budgeting process works, when if there are for example, when there's an increase in the contracted rate, that is the kind of item that a department may bring through the forced growth process because it's an unavoidable increased cost. So that would then find the change in the ongoing budget of the department would be affected through that process if approved at the financial management board as opposed to a discretionary change. Or if there's a demonstrated or proven increase in numbers and usage, one that can't be mitigated, one that can't be resolved otherwise through some other change in the system or process, then, again, that too may be an instance where a department might bring that request forward into the forced growth process and then we would see the change in the main estimates. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from YK North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So moving on to the Yellowknife shelter and sobering program, so there's a request for almost $2 million in supplementary funds. Can the Minister tell us what was the total cost of operating these facilities this past fiscal year, so whatever the budgeted amount was plus this supplementary almost $2 million?
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The annual operation funding requirements with this are looked at at around $2.5 million for and, yes sorry, for 20222023 projected for 20232024 to be I'm sorry, I think I said my numbers backward, Mr. Chair. $5.2 million for 20222023 and projected $5.1 million for 20232024. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from YK North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And so unless we have plans to put an RFP and do something different to actually get a nonprofit provider to take over this facility, will the additional $2 million be put into the main budget for 20242025 instead of year by year assuming that maybe this year an NGO will take it over?
Thank you. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I don't I do believe that NTHSSA is likely to be running the program for 20242025 and then obviously the beginning of that business planning has only begun, we're only at the point of a mandate, and then developing the budget to support it, but this would then be one of those items that, with a commitment to continue to run it knowing that the last two years' budgeting is as I've described, that would be the kind of circumstance where the department would be expected to bring forward an adjustment to their budget to accommodate this cost. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from YK North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And a quick note on so the upcoming YK Wellness and Recovery Centre that we talked about yesterday in our capital expenditures that is scheduled to be opened around 2026 I believe we established yesterday, I just wanted to note that if the government is hoping that we would be able to get an nonprofit or a nongovernment agency to run this kind of facility, I would strongly advise that we start now in planning and finding those partnerships because I fear we'll be unsuccessful if we leave it up to, you know, even within a year of planning to open the centre and then start looking around for someone to run it. As we've seen, it's challenging, and so I would urge us, if we're looking to save costs and have effective partnerships going forward in running those facilities, to start early, start now.
Finally, on this section, so the costs around the Inuvik Hospital provision of security, dietary, laundry, etcetera, service contracts, how what are the reasons why it looks like they were at least a million dollar over budget. Was there monitoring of these expenses to control costs, or what were the reasons why these contracts came in so much over budget?
Thank you. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So these are contractspecific up to the Inuvik Regional Hospital and the Arctic Family Centre and the Inuvik Public Health Office, so all Beaufort Delta related. And there are two specific contracts at issue. In both cases, those contracts saw increases as a result of some inflationary pressures that were being experienced. So, you know, again, not perhaps dissimilar to some of the challenges being felt in other areas of both the government and the private sector that just with whether between labour market shortages, increased inflation, increased expenses for insurance, or increased, you know, fuel costs, so on and so forth, all of that came in significantly higher and that is what has led to this item. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from from YK North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I realize my time is almost up. So just wanted to emphasize how important it is to me anyway that going forward we do our best to be realistic about what we think things are actually going to cost. I know there's some things we can't anticipate, but especially looking at past patterns, if things are consistently coming in over budget I would much rather see us have a realistic main budget than be sort of pressured or have this see these things come forward later in sup estimates because it definitely skews our idea of what things actually cost. Thank you very much.
Thank you. We're going to any further questions? Okay.
Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 20232024, Department of Health and Social Services, Health and Social Services programs, not previously authorized $25,525,000. Okay, I see Mr. Testart.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you for allowing me a second time to speak. So I apologies if I missed anything, but the $1.187 million for interritory child and family supports, can the Minister just explain that a bit more? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chair. I don't think I did do a very good job of explaining that one earlier, if I may.
So there's variability here coming in in part with the Child and Family Services Act that was revised as well as the federal Act respecting First Nations, Inuit, and Metis children, youth and families, and with that there's been changes that result to the associated costs. So that has impacted where this is at. Some elements of this line item or this activity area are experiencing a surplus, but others are looking at the increases in foster care rates that are changing. Even before we get to the March 1st date that I had mentioned, there are some increases, and there's an increased costs to the amount that's being spent in this in that for that regard, thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Range Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So this represents an increase to kind of program commitments, not an increase in children in care? Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I'm inclined to get back to the Members. I'm looking at the material I have in front of me and this is not I don't obviously have the programming area specifics, and I don't want to misstate what exactly is being increased so I don't want to also conflate the fact that bound up in here is the fact that there's an end coming change on March 1st. So I'd like to take that one back and just make sure I can get a better explanation than what I have done so far of exactly what this is for. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from from Range Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And, again, forgive me if I've missed overlooked this or have misheard this, but the change to March 1st in March 1st, what is that change? Thank you.
Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. On March 1st there will be increased foster care rates coming in determined after historically similar to looking at CPI. So with CPI being high, the rates go up. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Range Lake.
Which is reflected thank you, Mr. Chair. And is that reflected in these numbers, or is that an additional cost that will have to come up? Thank you.
Minister of Finance.
It's not reflected in these numbers, which I think or it will be a number that we have to come up with going forward. But, again, this is the information I'm looking at, Mr. Chair, just to be clear, I just am not entirely sure that I'm explaining it very well, and I'd like to just make sure that I have that accurately. But there is a change that's coming on March 1st. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Range Lake.
Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So, yeah, I appreciate that. I would just like to know get a better sense of how this is impacting foster care and children in care in the Northwest Territories. So one of them is is the Minister going to provide kind of a written response to committee? Or if she could just explain how and when we'll get the information back to us. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to the Minister of Finance.
