Thank you. I take that as a comment. Any further questions? Don't see none, I'll continue on.
Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 20232024, Department of Infrastructure, assets management not previously authorized $6,128,000. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Supplementary estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 20232024, Department of Infrastructure, programs and services not previously authorized $22,527,000. Is there any questions? Seeing none. Does the committee agree?
Agreed.
Okay, I'm going to go to the Member from YK North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So just on the Marine Transportation Services, obviously this is kind of an eyepopping number here, $14.4 million deficit or even more deficit than was already expected. I understand that this is due to a low water year. But can the Minister give us some assurance that there will be steps taken to avoid these levels of deficit in the future.
Thank you. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I happen to have it on authority that the Minister of Infrastructure is trying to arrange a briefing on MTS for committee and probably well deserved. It's certainly yes, the low water was certainly an impact, but that certainly isn't the only challenge that MTS has seen. They have struggled to find their footing since the end of NTCF for NTCL, so it is certainly not one that I want to minimize the ease by which there can be a path forward to sort of a more fiscally sustainable way. There's the forest fires also had an impact because, of course, the head office and main facilities for MTS are located in Hay River, and they were subject to the evacuations and, indeed, right at a critical time. That also impacted what occurred in the last year. So a number of different reasons and a number of different events.
I can say that with respect to 2024, it is expected or at least hoped that there's been some strategic planning around the loads, around the harbour restoration, and that with that, that should support a season that does not see this kind of need late in the season for support. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member for YK North.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I appreciate that information the Minister was able to give, and I look forward to more indepth discussion at our committee meeting. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Sahtu.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is more of a comment than a question. Having experience and I realize I could realize this amount here for the simple fact that there's many challenges that we've seen and probably will see in the future. Just to give you an idea here, we were expecting freight, but it didn't arrive. Everybody got evacuated out. The point of contact was on behalf of MTS ended up down south. So anyways, operations carried on. And to give you an idea of the many challenges facing this company here, similar challenges are faced by the other barge carrier operating out of Fort Nelson with an office there in Fort Simpson. So having sent sent some freight and picked up some freight from Cooper Barging, we finally seen that company arrive in the Sahtu in August only to find out that they had forced an 82yearold captain with the proper certifications to take out a retirement in Manitoba to operate the boat so they're in compliance with the regulations. So that's just some information as to the challenge in the past, and we're probably going to see more challenges in the future. So I can realize the deficit in this amount there. Thanks, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'll take that as a comment. Going to continue on. Member from Inuvik Boot Lake.
Mr. Chair, my question sorry. Thank you, Mr. Chair. My question is, can the Minister provide the total business loss for MTS for the year 20232024?
Thank you. I'm going go to the Finance Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, just trying to make sure I'm see if perhaps don't know that any of us have that right at the tip of our fingers, Mr. Chair. I just want to again, I mean, the fact that there's $14 million $14.4 million here is what is required at this point to bring it back. But I yes, I mean that so that I mean maybe I'm not maybe I'm not sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding the question, Mr. Chair. So obviously compared to what the projected budget was, the projected deficit at this point is $14.4 million. So is the question something other than that 14.4? Sorry, thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Inuvik Boot Lake.
Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And sorry, I should have phrased that question a little better. Obviously, we're looking for the $14.4 million. Is that the total loss for MTS this year, or is that in addition to is that an additional business loss for MTS this year?
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes. Thank you. Sorry, that is that is the business loss. So MTS operates with a revolving fund and it gives flexibility to continue to run its operations without, you know yes, it gives it some flexibility within to run operations from within that revolving fund. Any losses to the revolving fund have to get covered. This reflects those losses. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Inuvik Boot Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And just a comment, perhaps it's time that the department as a government, we look at moving MTS to Inuvik or Tuktoyaktuk where perhaps that loss can turn into a profit. Thank you.
Thank you for your comment. I'm going to continue on. Any further questions? I'm going to go to the Member from Frame Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I'd like to ask for a little bit more detail about the funds which are being reallocated under a low carbon economy leadership fund. Can the Minister describe the programs that fall under that, that $8 million funding.
Thank you. I'll go to the Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. There's a fairly, I think, lengthy area of things that fall under this. So some of this is the GHG grant program, the commercial industrial greenhouse gas grant program are included within. Arctic Energy Alliance gets a significant amount of funding from the department through this allocation. Active carbon active forestry carbon sequestration is under this, which is something administered by the Department of Environment and Climate Change. And energy retrofits on ferries comes under this one as well. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Frame Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So can the Minister just kind of describe the low carbon economy leadership fund itself kind of holistically; what it is, the time period that it extends through, and yeah, I'll start with that. Thank you.
To the Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So this comes in under the framework of from Environment and Climate Change Canada, the panCanadian framework on clean growth and climate change is meant to support different regions across Canada meeting GHG reduction targets, the 2016 Paris Agreement reduction targets. So these different funds are negotiated with all jurisdictions to provide funding towards that goal and specifically towards the goal of having projects that will help either generate economic growth that is under a clean growth envelope and/or projects that help reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Thank you.
Thank you. I'll go to the Member of Frame Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Does the fund have time constraints on it? Is it something that we receive money for every year, or is it coming to an end at some point? Thank you.
Thank you. I'll go to the Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So the original agreement came into effect in August of 2018 under which there was expected $31.2 million over the course of four years. There was a brief extension of that agreement which took us into 20232024, and that's being reflected here. I can say that the Department of Infrastructure is currently engaged with Environment and Climate Change Canada towards determining what the next form of funding might look like. And to my latest estimate, or my latest information up to today or up to a couple of days ago anyways, was that we had not yet finalized an agreement for 20242025 but nor had any other jurisdictions in Canada. Thank you.
Thank you. I'll go back to the Member from Frame Lake.
So, you know, it's kind of stating the obvious, I suppose, that the next fiscal year is really just a month away. Does the Minister expect that this funding is going to be secured before that time?
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister of Finance.
That was an excellent question, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, that certainly obviously doesn't relate to the sup, and I'm speaking at this point really with the Department of Infrastructure hat on. It's been brought to my attention that it's a concern at this point. This is an area where we provide a significant amount of funding to the you know, exactly as was asked earlier, Arctic Energy Alliance for instance, as well as other initiatives. So, you know, at this point we are still expecting that some new tranche of funding will be negotiated but, again, at this moment in time I don't have that. So, yes, am I worried? I will certainly be following up. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Frame Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. And I know there's lots of people in our community who access the programs that Arctic Energy Alliance has put in place under this funding and would be concerned to hear that it might be that there's difficulties obtaining funding to keep it going. So I would appreciate if the Minister would keep us in the loop about that.
Just back to the funding itself, the total was I believe the Minister said $31.2 million. So have we managed to spend the entirety of that amount within the required time under the funding agreement?
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So some of these programs are applicationbased which so it depends on the amount of applications received and also can depend upon when work is done, which would then affect when the money is disbursed. So as far as just to ensure and also I'm sorry, I should also note that some of the individual areas where the funding is allocated are do permit to have carryovers. So I will need to just double check to see if, in fact, it is all expended. It looks that it has been, Mr. Chair. And if I am incorrect in that, I will certainly correct that at the earliest opportunity. Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Frame Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Yes, I would appreciate hearing back from the Minister. And just I guess the clarification I'd like is if it hasn't been fully spent, the question of course is are we going to have the opportunity to spend it, or does the funding simply lapse on April 1st? Thank you, Mr. Chair. I think that's going to be a question for the future. It's probably not one the Minister can answer now. Thank you.
Thank you. Take that as a comment. I'm going to move on to Member from Great Slave.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I appreciate the Minister's offer and/or commitment to meet with committee around Marine Transportation Services. Quickly, can she speak to, since this isn't her portfolio, if whether the department is working with ECC on water level monitoring and projections for the coming year? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Go to Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I do believe that the Department of Infrastructure and ECC do work together in terms of having hydrologists. In fact, I'm certain they do. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Great Slave.
I'll wait for the briefing. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
