Debates of February 27, 2024 (day 11)

Any further question? Okay, thank you.

Continuing on, Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 20232024, Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, directorate, not previously authorized $55,153,000. Does the committee agree?

Speaker: SOME HON. MEMBERS

Agreed.

Thank you. Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 20232024, Department of Municipal and Community Affairs, total department, not previously authorized $55,153,000. Is there any questions? Seeing no hands. Does the committee agree?

Speaker: SOME HON. MEMBERS

Agreed.

Thank you. Members, there is a schedule on page 14 to 16 that details that supplementary reserve impact. This schedule is not a voteable item and is included as information only. Are there any questions on the schedule? I'm going to go to Member from Range Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, is the government compliant with its own Fiscal Responsibility Policy after sorry.

Okay, is the GNWT currently compliant with its own Fiscal Responsibility Policy after the impact of these supplementary appropriations given that the reserve is in significant deficit? Thank you.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister of Finance.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I mean, in this exact moment we are compliant, but depending on where the final numbers come in at the end of the fiscal year and all reconciliations and accountings are complete, if we are running a deficit there could become you do a complete calculation in terms of the available balance for the to provide for the 50 percent of capital funding. If the deficit becomes too significant, there is a risk that we would be offside of that in terms of not meeting the 50 percent. However, within that policy, there is a twoyear timeline within which, if there is an occasion where we come offside of one of the provisions, not only that of providing for 50 percent capital but including if we were, for example, to go over on the percentage of interest, which we are not, but if there is one of those events that occur, that we have a two line twoyear timeline within which to put ourselves back in compliance. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm going to go back to the Member from Range Lake.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. So are there any lessons learned about how the GNWT approaches the supplementary reserve given the volatility related to spending due to increased instances of natural disaster? Do we know I mean, all the everything we're thinking about this upcoming fire season, and presumably flood and perhaps famine and plague, it is going to be bad, so yeah, it's positively biblical. So if we're we know this is coming, are we adjusting how we budget our supplementary reserves to take into account that so we're not in the situation where we're significantly depleting the supplementary reserve which, of course, has an impact on how the government manages its debt and infrastructure spending as well? And with the changes that have been recently announced, that's going to be even more of a delicate subject with 100 percent of funding having to come from operational surpluses. Thank you.

Thank you. I'll now go to the Minister of Finance.

Well, that's a dark note on which to end the evening, Mr. Chair. So we don't the supplementary reserve is a tool by which the budgeting process is meant to look at having some additional funding available for the emergent expenses. You know, more like the contracts that get signed off cycle and for which there may be a contribution component, you know, things that emerge, opportunities that come up where the department might need to, you know, expend funds beyond, you know, the deficit of the MTS for instance. It's really not meant as an emergency fund per se. So I'm conscious of the point being made that this is speaking to whether or not we have the fiscal capacity to plan for an emergency response, and I would agree that there needs to be fiscal capacity to deal with an emergency response. I can say back with COVID, we did increase the sup reserve significantly during COVID because of the extraordinary nature of that and the known the fact that it was known going into that second year that there would be those overages, but while it may well be that this coming summer season is biblical, it may well be that it's not quite such a tone and that it may be something lesser. So, again, the sup reserve is meant to be the tool. It's not meant to be something that departments can count on. It's not meant to encourage departments to come back. It's it really is supposed to reflect our fiscal capacity. And it hasn't increased since 20192020 when it went from 20 to 35 because our capacity hasn't increased, which, again, is not to say that we wouldn't necessarily need more fiscal capacity in the form of an operating surplus from which we could draw emergencies. So that we were projecting $178 million in an operating surplus back at the beginning of the 20232024 season. Obviously that gotten eaten up over the course of the summer, but that's where we found that cushion was within that kind of fiscal planning. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm going to go back to the Member from Range Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Well, luckily, the night is always darkest before the dawn. So I'm hoping that we can, you know, move forward from tough times into brighter ones. But I think maybe the Minister can do the public a service as well because I think during the evac circumstances, there was a lot of discussion around like depleting the operational surplus which left the government broke, for lack of a better word, and so can we draw a distinction between the supplementary reserve and the operational surplus and why they are relevant to one another but not intrinsically linked or the same thing? Thank you.

Yes, I'm going to go to Minister of Finance. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you for that question. So the supplementary reserve is something in the operations budget that gives $35 million available for those unexpected things that come through as part of the supplementary appropriations process. And as I mentioned earlier, there are roughly four supplementary appropriations processes that go on through the year. So it's fully expected that we will have sups or supplementary appropriations. That's normal. Not everything happens neatly in, you know, say in advance of the February budget cycle. But at the same time, you want to make an effort as a government to plan these things out so that we aren't having to come back. So keeping it at $35 million over the last few years, again barring the COVID event, is meant to reflect, you know, that this isn't meant to just be a slush fund. It should be something that has and it does have specific parameters in the financial administration manual about when the departments can come back.

The operating surplus in the main estimates, that is where we budget an amount that allows a surplus not as an overall surplus. There's still the department or the Government of the Northwest Territories is still running a debt, but it gives us the ability to pay for the capital plan, so and part of what we're hoping to do now is actually use that budget in a way that we can spend 100 percent of our dollars to pay for our capital plan rather than 50 percent, which is what's in the Fiscal Responsibility Policy.

When we went into the summer season and expended all the money that we had to support the wildfires, that came from the operating surplus. That's where that money was kind of coming out of. And we are now looking at, having gone through that, puts us either at zero or at a slight bit of a deficit. Pretty common for governments to run deficit budgets overall. We just typically hadn't done that. That's not normally how we do it. But that is quite common that governments obviously can run deficit budgets. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Range Lake. Is there any further questions in.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's been a pleasure engaging with the witnesses. Nothing further.

Is there any further questions? Seeing no further questions. As this is not a voteable item, we will continue on.

Committee, do you agree that you have concluded consideration of Tabled Document 2920(1), Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 20232024? I'd like to call on Member from Inuvik Boot Lake.

Denny Rodgers

Inuvik Boot Lake

Mr. Chair, I move that the chair rise and report progress. No, no, no, not yet sorry if I did that out. Apologies. Apologies. Apologies. Withdraw, withdraw, withdraw. Apologies, I thought I did the committee motion outside of Mr. Chair, apologies.

Committee Motion 3-20(1): Concurrence Motion - Tabled Document 29-20(1): Supplementary Estimates (Operations Expenditures), No. 4, 2023-2024, Carried

Thank you. The motion is in order. To the motion.

Speaker: SOME HON. MEMBERS

Question.

Question has been called. All those in favour? All those opposed? The motion is carried. Tabled Document 2920(1) will be reported as ready for consideration in the formal session through the form of an appropriation bill.

Carried

Thank you, Minister, and thank you to the witnesses for appearing before us, and thank you to all the Members for participating in this process. Thank you. Go to Inuvik Boot Lake.

Denny Rodgers

Inuvik Boot Lake

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, I move the chair rise and report progress.

There's a motion on the floor to report progress. The motion is in order and nondebatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? Motion carried.

Carried

Report of Committee of the Whole

Mr. Speaker, your committee has been considering Tabled Document 2920(1) and would like to report progress and passed one motion and that consideration of Tabled Document 2920(1) is concluded, and the House concurred on those estimates and that an appropriation bill to be based thereon be introduced without delay. And, Mr. Speaker, I move that the report of the Committee of the Whole be concurred with. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Do I have a seconder for the report of the Committee of the Whole? Member from Yellowknife South. The motion is in order and nondebatable. All those in favour? All those opposed? All those abstaining? Motion has been carried and the report of Committee of the Whole has been concurred with. Good job, Minister of Finance.

Third Reading of Bills

Bill 5: Supplementary Appropriation Act, Infrastructure Expenditures, No. 3, 20232024, Carried