Thank you, Madam Chair. So the territorial power subsidy program, that's $7.15 million for this coming year. It says it's a subsidy program for residential electricity consumers outside of Yellowknife. Is that a subsidy that's given directly to NTPC, or is it given directly to customers? Can you explain how that power subsidy program works.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Finance.
I'll get ADM Courtoreille to answer that, please.
ADM Courtoreille.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The TPSP program is a program that's applied directly to utilities, customers bills, so it's a subsidy that's paid to NTPC. And it subsidizes customers whose electricity rates are higher than Yellowknife. So it basically brings everybody back to the Yellowknife rate for the first thousand kilowatt hours of consumption during summer months, and 700 sorry, 700 kilowatt hours during summer months and a thousand kilowatt hours during winter months. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, ADM Courtoreille. Member from Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And so is the subsidy rates for each customer, is that determined in collaboration with the Public Utilities Board or is it completely separate from the Public Utilities Board's role their role in determining rates?
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Finance. ADM Courtoreille.
Thank you, Madam Chair. It doesn't really have much of a relation in determining what the community rates are. This is a GNWT subsidy that is provided to the benefit of all ratepayers. And so the level of subsidy would differ depending on what community you live in and how different that community rate is relative to the Yellowknife rate. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, ADM Courtoreille. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Okay, this is something that I'm interested to look into further, but I'll leave it there for now. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Any further questions? Please turn to page 172. Sorry, Member for the Sahtu.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm looking at medical travel assistance here. In previous years, it was a lot higher, and we're anticipating a lower number here. I'm hoping that maybe some detail on explanation could be provided. Are we getting better at booking travel than we were? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for the Sahtu. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And, Madam Chair, just first for any members of public who may be just want the explanation, just to be clear, this is medical travel for employees. It's an employee benefit, just as other private sector employers might provide benefits of some nature or another, this is the benefit that is provided to public servants. And we are let me just say first there has been a modest increase that's been proposed in the department for this line item from the main estimates of 20232024. So in the actual base budget, that has gone up by a couple of million.
There was a fairly significant backlog of medical travel after COVID. So in 20222023 and in 20232024, backlog due to surgeries having been cancelled, dental not happening, so on and so forth. We are hoping that that number will not be as high as it has been those last couple of years coming out of COVID. And as such, hoping and expecting, projecting that the number therefore doesn't need to be as high, again, as the numbers you're seeing, but some additional from what the original base budget was.
As far as the actual booking of travel, I mean, again, the process does reside in financial employee shared services. We do track how quickly things get how quickly people are able to be serviced, and, you know, again, hoping that if there are issues, I would be happy to hear about them. I certainly do hear about them but there are service standards in place, and we do track to them. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister of Finance. Member for the Sahtu.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My last question is on the entry there for environmental liabilities. And whenever you see the word liabilities, one cringes. Is this a onetime cleanup that happened a couple years ago and it's over and done with; there's no repercussions to this environmental liability? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for the Sahtu. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, there was a change in 20222023 as a result of a change in accounting standards and the way in which we were then being required under public accounting standards to consider what was an environmental liability and where to account for it. It's not a cash item today per se. It is a projection that when a government asset at some point in its future no longer is in use, that you have to account for what potential costs there might be to remediate that asset. So for historical assets, that's, you know, classic case of asbestos or led paint, but even more modern assets do continue to have some amount for clean up that has to be accounted for. That's what this is. And when there was a change in asset retirement obligations, that change is reflected there as to what we now yeah, the change in how we account and what things we have to account for. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister of Finance. Member for the Sahtu.
Okay, Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So just because I want to get this out to the public, could the Minister please elaborate as to why the interest on both longterm debt and shortterm interest we saw quite a large jump from these budgeted dollars in the main estimates from 20232024 to the revised estimates of 20232024? And although I'm sure the Minister of Finance is possibly happy that the interest rate has dropped slightly lately, I'm curious as to why this is being budgeted for so much lower in the mains. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Great Slave. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I think this is actually a fairly important series of accounts to look at or numbers to look at in the main estimates. This is money that is paid on debt. So this is the money that we pay to the banks. This has no asset in the Northwest Territories, no program or service that is being serviced. It's just money that we're paying on the debt.
And well, yes, I am happy that there has been a small reduction in interest rates that had not you know, in the last couple of years, we had to come back when rates were not dropping as quickly as what was at times being projected, in addition to the fact that then when you wind up taking on additional shortterm debt, particularly, for example, over this summer when we wound up in a situation of having to burn through what money we had for relief and recovery and emergencies, you then wind up taking on more shortterm debt. That comes at a higher interest rate. So between needing to take on more and the costs of debt being higher, we wound up requiring more.
As far as projections for 20242025, again, you know, everyone can read the financial news and there's been ideas that the interest rate would come down, and so the folks are doing their best estimate of what interest rates will be over the next fiscal year and what the impact of that will be over the next fiscal year and then building that into the main estimates here. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister of Finance. Any further questions? No further questions, please turn to page 172.
Finance, Office of the Comptroller General, operations expenditure summary, 20242025 Main Estimates, $91,458,000. Does the committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Are there additional information there are additional information items on page 175 to 180. Are there any questions? Member for Inuvik Boot Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Just because I'm new and I'm interested, on the heritage fund, the $62 million, who manages this fund?
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. Minister of Finance.
CIBC Wood Gundy manages it on our behalf. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister of Finance. Member for Inuvik Boot Lake.
Is there an investment policy that I don't know if it would be if that would come to Cabinet or how is there an investment policy and if there is, who sets that up?
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. There is. It is a financial management board policy. I don't have it in my main estimates briefing binder, but I can certainly try and pull it up if the Member's interested to hear more. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister. Member for Inuvik Boot Lake.
I am, but you don't necessarily have to pull it up now. It's something I can get from you. I'm just interested on the policy, whether or not how I understand if Wood Gundy is managing the fund, then obviously they would manage it based on our policy and whether that we're looking at if how it's tied to the indices, whether or not we look at ethical/unethical investments, so on and so forth, I assume that would be in the policy? And, yeah, if the Minister could commit, I would if it's a document I can see, I would absolutely love to see the investment policy.
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. Just a reminder, when people are talking, can you just wait until your light turns on before proceeding. Thank you. Minister of Finance.
Madam Chair, let me also note there's the Heritage Fund Act and heritage fund regulations that go with this. So let me put some information together and see if that can provide the kind of clarity that the Member's looking for. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister of Finance. Member for Inuvik Boot Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And, yes, I'd appreciate that, to be able to see that to have a look. Thank you. No further questions.
Any further questions? Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, under the technology service centre chargeback, it details each department's chargeback recoveries to the TSC, currently estimated at in 20242025 at just shy of $41 million. So I recognize, you know, part of this is how we pay our hardworking TSC folks, and I'm totally happy that we do, but for the remaining approximately $28 million, that's quite a jump from the last main estimates. And I was wondering if the Minister could speak to why it's gone up by just close to $6.3 million. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Great Slave. Minister of Finance.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, one of the significant areas or significant reasons for change is simply the fact of the growth in the public service. So as there are more public servants who require various items or technological items, that requires almost inevitably more work from the TSC on those items. So that is a significant reason for the growth.
Secondary to that, there has been some growth in terms of the licensing fees that are also spread across these dollars and, particularly, in regards to cyber security and the services that we rely on to maintain cyber security. That has become a little more expensive but probably money well spent in that particular regard. Well, it's all money well spent, Madam Chair. But particularly with cyber security, I do want to emphasize that there's you know, again, we need to look at the headlines, it's easy to see the importance of having that as a government. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister of Finance. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And, yeah, I don't disagree with the Minister on the importance of cyber security whatsoever. However, I think, you know, if there is a way to find some economies and savings in this line item, I mean, it would mean more money for programs and services delivered to the public, not that not having technology for our public servants isn't important but just, you know, I'm hopeful that the department can take a look at that and square that away. Thank you, Madam Chair. More of a comment.
Thank you, Member for Great Slave. Minister of Finance.
Madam Chair, the reason I stuck my hand up quickly is that in going through the fiscal sustainability exercise and the feedback that was received from employees, I do want to highlight that this is an area that we also heard feedback from public servants themselves. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister of Finance. Any further questions? Thank you, Members.
Please turn now to the departmental summary found on page 153, with information items on page 154 to 155. Are there any questions? Seeing no further questions, committee, I will now call the departmental summary.
Finance, operations expenditure, total department, 20242025 Main Estimate sorry, I'm going to go back, sorry. Member for Yellowknife North.
I have a question on the overall active position summary. So when I was looking at records it was actually a CBC article about the growth in the public service since about 2018, I noticed in particular the Department of Finance, in 2018, had about 357 staff and then it grew to about 490 staff, and now it's sitting at well, for this coming year, 563 staff.
Can the Minister give some explanation of why the Department of Finance has grown from 357 staff in 2018 to 563 now? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Finance.
