Debates of June 12, 2024 (day 26)

Thank you, Member from Yellowknife Centre. To the motion. Member for Range Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm pleased to rise in support of this motion and to second it. I think there's an interesting debate going on, as my colleague alluded to, in the Northwest Territories right now of how best to resolve the increasing rates of crime in our communities and addictions and substance abuse. And I think, unfortunately, this discussion turns into a binary of either you support more policing, or you support more addictions, and you can't do both at the same time. And I think you can -- I know because I certainly do, and speaking with our police services as well they certainly do, that you can address a public health crisis at the same time as you address an organized crime crisis, a drug trafficking crisis. But you need different resources to do that, and that's what this motion calls for. And specifically one thing we're missing is a community policing-based support.

I want to commend the GNWT for working on building something like this in Fort Liard with their community safety officer pilot program. I hope we can see more of those roll out across the Northwest Territories. And I think that would be an appropriate model for what this motion contemplates. We have to allow the police to do police work and create the kind of resources that can do this kind of work. The statistics are not good. I don't think anyone who is in -- who is unhoused or who is suffering from addictions and the issues that relate to that, I don't think they want to be dealing with the police. I think they'd much rather have a more supportive trained -- well-trained professional, who can get them into programs that can help support them. But when you're dealing with armed thugs, that's not a situation for a social worker either, and I don't think social workers want to be in that situation. So, you know, we need all the resources to bear to address this crisis, and I think this motion is a good way to give voice to what many people have been calling for, which is a different approach that isn't the heavy hammer of the police, so everyone can get back to doing what they do best and tackle the areas of this multifaceted problem that they're best equipped to deal with. So I support this motion. I encourage other Members of the House to do so as well. Thank you.

Thank you, Member from Range Lake. To the motion. Member from Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So I appreciate the idea and the intent behind this motion. I am not sure how this would look in practice. In particular, I think this would look quite different in each different community in the Northwest Territories. And I actually think the solution needs to be a partnership that goes beyond just the GNWT and the RCMP. I think there's many other partners who are on the frontlines of trying to support and deal with mental health emergencies.

You know, the Member for Yellowknife Centre talked repeatedly about the fact that people need somewhere else to go as opposed to being, I guess, taken to jail. And the problem is that we still don't have somewhere else for them to go. And this motion doesn't actually take us in that direction, per se. And, you know, in Yellowknife, we have the Street Outreach van which live and work in the downtown area, but, you know, thank goodness for the Street Outreach van. It's an essential service. But the Street Outreach van has identified time and time again that a big problem is that they're a van but often they don't have anywhere to actually take people who need help. They can transport them somewhere but there is nowhere to take them if, you know, the shelters are full, if the sobering centre is full, if the day shelter is full. And so that remains a big problem. And so, you know, we have a review that's happening of the Street Outreach program that the city has led and I've been happy to see that GNWT staff have been able to participate in that review. I am anxious to see the report that comes out of that and the recommendations. I would urge this government to look at those recommendations seriously, to follow up, to commit resources, to work with the city of Yellowknife in ensuring that we have appropriate, you know, responses when people are going through mental health crises or, you know, struggling and they're on the street and someone needs to respond but I agree, it shouldn't be the police. And so we need a more comprehensive service. We also need a sort of more comprehensive net of supports that are going to be able to help people beyond just being the first person to intervene in that crisis. We need the follow-up supports and services that's going to allow them to move past that crisis.

So I will support the motion, but I would urge the government in its response to carefully consider the review and recommendations coming out of the report on the Street Outreach program and building on current initiatives that are underway. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Member from Yellowknife North. To the motion. Member from Inuvik Boot Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'll just speak to the motion briefly, Mr. Speaker. I do support this motion. I think it's another tool. It's a step in the right direction. I think, you know, our goal is to disrupt the flow of drugs coming into our territory, at our borders, in our communities, and also to help those who are suffering from the consequences of those drugs, Mr. Speaker. So, I mean, I listen to the statements from my other colleagues, and I concur, and certainly there are -- you know, we need to keep moving forward to things like addiction treatment centres and aftercare programs. But I do think this is a tool starting in the right direction. I want RCMP to be RCMP, and I want them, you know, doing what RCMP do, which is catching the bad people that are in this territory doing the bad things, and we need to also focus on the people that are suffering, as I said, from the consequences of those bad things. Thank you.

Thank you, Member from Inuvik Boot Lake. To the motion. Member from Frame Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I certainly won't need 20 minutes to speak on this one. I am supportive of the -- similar to kind of some previous speakers, I'm supportive of the general intent of this motion though I don't think the details, implications, and a full understanding of how it can be successfully implemented have been thought out at this time. However, I would note that there are several models already being implemented in neighboring jurisdictions so we can learn from and borrow from their experience.

Mr. Speaker, the Yukon has a program like this. There's programs in numerous cities across North America. So I would just encourage the government in responding to this motion to do research to ensure that any solutions brought forward are evidence-based, as I like to emphasize for virtually everything that we do, and just ensure that we are putting solutions in place which are right-sized for our territory, for our communities, and which we have seen through, you know, investigations into evidence that they will be effective and not have negative unintended consequences.

Mr. Speaker, I do want to kind of acknowledge that a large percentage of calls fielded by RCMP are noncriminal matters. And that's something that I heard a lot from the RCMP when I was on council. They would come and present to us often. And probably one of the most impactful meetings I had was with a previous head of the RCMP that came to council and actually asked us for a meeting in private to encourage us to invest in social services and invest in social solutions to so many of the problems that we see manifesting on the streets because his message to us is simply that we are not going to police our way out of this problem. And coming from the head of the RCMP, that was a really powerful message that I have kept in mind going forward in the work that I do in governance.

So I want to emphasize that a lot of the calls that RCMP are receiving are noncriminal matters, and they are better handled by our social services and health care providers. So this is not just limited to mental health crises. So I just want to note -- I'm not going to list everything, but let's be expansive in our considerations for implementation of a program like this, let's ensure that -- again, I just emphasize the need for evidence-based policy making and decision-making. So I'll leave my comments at that. I do support the general intent of the motion and for that reason, I'll stand in support of it today. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Member from Frame Lake. To the motion. Member from Great Slave.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So I'll keep short and brief. I do agree with the intent of the motion, and I agree with much of what my colleagues have said here today, and I will be happy to support the motion. I think it's very important, as my colleague from Yellowknife North stated, that this will look different in every community. I think that this is currently framed in a sort of Yellowknife centric sort of way, so I hope that in the government's reply we have that fulsome breadth of a reply for what it might look like in some of our smaller communities as well.

I would also like to point out something that I heard from my colleague from Yellowknife North that, you know, there is a lack of places to go when the shelters are freed up but, you know, thankfully here in Yellowknife, we have a wellness and recovery centre on the books for the life of this Assembly, and I am thrilled that that is happening, Mr. Speaker, so I would love to see the response incorporate that. And that's about all I have right now. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Member from Great Slave. To the motion. Member from the Deh Cho.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too think about and heard all the comments from the Members. I will support this motion but I would like the departments to look at how this will roll out in the small communities. It's good for us because we get another job; it would be a crisis intervention worker. And just to know how it's going to work in combination with health and social services, RCMP. That needs to be looked at. Otherwise, I will support the motion. Thank you.

Thank you, Member from the Deh Cho. To the motion. Member from Sahtu.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too will be supporting this motion. Anything to do with facing the challenges and the problems. Just recently, in the last number of hours, I received a couple of calls that there's many drugs coming into the Sahtu as we speak. So it's a continued crisis, the problems that are being faced, seen in public, it's terrible. So it's a terrible situation, and we need all the tools in the toolbox to move ahead, and if it's going to be an added solution to the crisis that's out there, yes, I will support that. Mahsi.

Thank you, Member from the Sahtu. To the motion. Member from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, support this motion. It's another toolbox that we need to deal with the issues in our small communities and throughout the Northwest Territories. And I respect my colleagues on their comments as well, and I hear -- you know, I'm hoping that within 120 days, this issue will be addressed. So, Mr. Speaker, I'll be supporting the motion. Thank you.

Thank you, Member from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. To the motion. Member from Mackenzie Delta.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too will be supporting this motion because in my community of Fort McPherson, I've seen the resource people, specifically the RCMP, have been exhausted to where they're unable to come out to investigate any crimes because they're not trained or -- to go out and deal with family violence or any other family issues. So this motion will give direction to the government to help these resource people in a better manner. So just to let you know that I will be supporting this motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Member from Mackenzie Delta. To the motion. Member from Hay River North.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Members may recall that I have already spoken on this topic, and I've stated that this is the direction that I would like to see things move. The RCMP, as has been stated, should be dealing with crimes, not with mental health issues, but they have become the default service provider in that area. And so while I know there might be hopes of 24/7 support in every community around the territory, I don't want anyone to get their hopes up that we're going to have around-the-clock services like that any time soon with, you know, three shifts in every community, 99 social workers working around the clock. But that being said, I've had discussions with the RCMP on this. I've communicated to my department that I want to see us move in this direction. And so regardless of this motion, work is beginning. Thank you.

Oh, and Mr. Speaker, microphone is still on, so I will say that as always, Cabinet would like to take our 120 days to respond to this motion. When something like this comes in, there's a lot of things to consider, and we want to make sure that we take that time and fully consider it and provide a response. So we will be abstaining. Thank you.

Thank you, Member from Hay River North. To the motion. To conclude the motion, Member from Yellowknife Centre.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First off, I want to thank all the committee members on this side of the House for their very rich and important and thoughtful comments. Mr. Speaker, a couple of them I want to highlight.

First of all, I'll start with the Member on my left, for Range Lake. These are the types of issues on his agenda, constantly raising with committee, trying to support community members. You know, and I often hear him say he recognizes the Mackenzie Delta Member who's dealing with his challenges in his community. I hear the Member from the Sahtu talk about the community impacts that drugs and alcohol are having, and we have to find different ways of doing this. Mr. Speaker, we could talk about every Member, but I think the Member of Deh Cho said it's an important creation of resources in their community, and she'd like to see the roll out of this in smaller communities. And I couldn't support it more, any more than that. I do fully, fully agree.

Mr. Speaker, crime is changing, and we have to respond to it differently, and I hate thinking -- I hate the situation where we treat all crime the same because social issues aren't crime. And unhoused and addictions are not crime in my view. I mean -- and, you know, we can talk about that until the cows come home, but the truth is I really don't believe that unhoused and addictions in any way is a crime. It's a crime not doing anything. And I know it's tough to solve all solutions, I want to stress that. But by doing nothing I think is truly the crime.

So, Mr. Speaker, this, as many Members have recognized, it's a tool. I recognize MLA for Frame Lake has pointed out there are models and options out there. I'll be the first to say don't just go by the option I'm presenting today. I'll say if there's a workable option to find ways, take it. It's not about -- sometimes debate isn't about trying to win, Mr. Speaker. And I refer to win an argument. It's about trying to find the best solution. Sometimes people get caught up -- hypersensitive about raising our voice and getting engaged in issues. But, really, debate shouldn't be an argument, it should be about how do we get the best result. And that's what hopefully this is really about, getting the best result for all ridings by all means.

So, Mr. Speaker, I'll close with thanking everyone. And I also want to thank the Premier in his comments. It sounded like he fully supported the motion. And I'm sure that's what I heard, and I'll have to go back to Hansard to confirm that one way or the other, so I'll do that on my own time. But that said, I was really -- we were all moved by his wonderful statements in support of these types of ideas.

So, Mr. Speaker, I've already asked for a recorded vote, and I'll leave it at that. And, again, I thank everyone for hearing this out and sharing today. Thank you.

Thank you, Member from Yellowknife Centre. To the motion.

Question.

The Member for Yellowknife Centre. The Member for Range Lake. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. The Member for Monfwi. The Member for Frame Lake. The Member for Great Slave. The Member for Mackenzie Delta. The Member for Yellowknife North. The Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. The Member for Deh Cho. The Member for Sahtu.

All those opposed, please stand. All those abstaining, please stand.

The Member for Thebacha. The Member for Yellowknife South. The Member for Kam Lake. The Member for Hay River North. The Member for Hay River South. The Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. The Member for Nunakput.

Colleagues, 11 in favour, zero opposed, 7 abstentions. Motion has passed.

---Carried

Motions. Member from Yellowknife Centre.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

WHEREAS local authorities are currently responsible for the development and implementation of their emergency plans;

AND WHEREAS the local emergency plan is the first line of defense to keep residents of the Northwest Territories safe and informed when responding to natural disasters or other similar emergencies;

AND WHEREAS Municipal and Community Affairs currently provides guidance to local authorities to create emergency plans but there is no requirement for the Minister to fund, draft, or assess these plans;

AND WHEREAS, the current form of community emergency plans throughout municipal and community governments can fairly be described as standalone orphan plans;

AND WHEREAS, without general uniformity of emergency plans, there is little consistency with respect to community emergency plan details, themes and overlapping partnership agreements, which would help ensure the plans coordinate together in cases of regional needs, and consistent and contiguous to the Northwest Territories emergency management plans;

AND WHEREAS there is currently no obligation for public transparency of these community emergency plans;

AND WHEREAS residents in Northwest Territories communities were threatened as they fled for safety in recent flooding and wildfire events and, in some cases, felt a sense of lack of coordination and disconnect between leadership and partners;

AND WHEREAS the Minister has the authority under the Act to direct a review and analyze these plans, however, the Department does not fund these plans directly, which is then left up to municipal and community government to resolve this challenge in the absence of much needed resources, expertise, and funding;

NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh, that the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs direct the emergency management organization to draft all emergency plans for every Northwest Territories community over the next two years to ensure all plans are reasonably and consistently done;

AND FURTHERMORE, that the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs provide financial support to all applicable governments, to allow them to fine-tune and complete their specific community emergency plan reflective of their specific community needs, inventorying of assets and assessment of their partners and supports;

AND FURTHERMORE, once a community plan is prepared, the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs posts each community emergency plan on the Municipal and Community Affairs website to ensure they are publicly accessible for transparency;

AND FURTHERMORE, that the Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs acquire the resources for each community to ensure all plans are reviewed and practiced from time to time, based on reasonable industry standards, which will demonstrate leadership and confidence in these safety plans for all Northwest Territories residents;

AND FURTHERMORE, that the Government of the Northwest Territories provide a response to this motion in 120 days.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Member from Yellowknife Centre. To the motion. Member from Yellowknife Centre.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I just want to kick off debate as I did earlier, but I probably won't spend as much time going through this one. This motion speaks for itself.

Communities, whether you live in a large one or a small one, are all starved for resources. We talked about the municipal funding gap at length. And this is just one more thing piled on to them that they need to respond to.

Mr. Speaker, the challenge is, of course, we know, first of all, it's money, so the resource of money is not there for these communities. Then you have the skills and abilities to do this. I mean, these are specialized expertise. This motion really does talk to the issue of MACA coordinating them for all communities, and then looking at them from a regional point of view and help -- and then tieing them together so they're consistent and then giving them, the communities, all communities, in a draft form, so then they can say, hey, my needs in Trout Lake are way different than my needs in Colville Lake, or my needs in Inuvik are much different than Yellowknife, or my needs are different in Smith than they are in Norman Wells. So, like, every community is very different but the concept and the expertise about asking the important questions, such as make sure you have this, make sure you know where these are, considering this an enormous undertaking. But it's the financial and expertise that, you know, when it comes to the money and know-how to build these things and give them to communities. We have to set these communities up for success. And that's the critical part about this, is leading and coordinating these initiatives and then giving them to the individual communities and say hey, this is important to me, these are our key resources, these are our partners, we agree with this. If they don't want the draft plan, Mr. Speaker, I wouldn't stand in the way of a community that says we don't want the draft plan. I mean if MACA -- but the thing is they go it alone then, and I don't want to see that. I want them to work in partnership. This is about collaboration and leadership. And it takes leadership from the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs to help support and initiate these processes so they're ready, so they're done in a timely way, so we're not waiting too long. I mean, the complaints about our plans there, why are they different, why are they missing things. I mean, this would help resolve some of those issues and resolve confidence in our northern concerns, which is is my region, is my community ready? If it is ready, what does ready mean and what does ready look like? What does is it sound like? How does it trigger? What triggers this? How do we respond? So that's the kind of concept here.

I should stress it's not intended to force this on anybody and that's not the intent of this motion. So if anyone feels that their community, this would force it, this is not. It's meant about working in collaboration. And the bottom line is is it's about MACA picking up the tab, which really it belongs to, rather than on the individual citizens on that. So whether you live -- I mean, where do you get extra money when you live in Fort Providence? It's not sitting around there. That community government is struggling to keep water moving in those streets and, you know, doing the important things that communities do. There used to be an old saying dogs, ditches, and dumps. That's what communities should be focusing on. You know, the infrastructure of towns. But as times move on, processes become heavier and heavier, they give them more and more to do, and MACA says this is important, you must have these things. Well, when you say these things are important, they must be done, they must be funded too.

So, Mr. Speaker, that's to start off discussion. I look forward to the insights and ideas and suggestions my community members have. I'm open to them. And I certainly think that they would be help in any form to help get this motion through with the intent of this is about supporting communities, which ultimately is supporting people and making sure we're safe.

And lastly, Mr. Speaker, of course I'll be asking for a recorded vote so I may as well put that -- let the public know now. Cheers.

Thank you, Member from Yellowknife Centre. To the motion. Member from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I support this motion. On May 5th, 2022, the community -- or the hamlet of Fort Resolution was taken over by MACA and since March of this year, I've been asking where's the fire plan and where things are at and also in regards to the fire plan for Dettah, N'dilo, and Lutselk'e. And with this whole year, you know, I thought about it and thinking back of 2023 and the fire season that we went through, and we want to go back and learn from that. But for me when I stand on the floor of this House here and I brought up this issue about the fire plan, it's really tough because we're under third party management in Fort Resolution. And it's really tough because, you know, the SAO is -- I've been talking to that office when I got there trying to say, okay, what are we going to do about this. I get calls from the chief, I get calls from the Metis leaders saying okay, well, we're concerned about the fire and the upcoming fire season in 2024.

So, you know, most definitely, you know, we do need help. I know in Lutselk'e, Dettah, and N'dilo, you know, they took it upon themselves to come up with some kind of a plan to fireguard the community so that we don't have another situation we found ourselves in last year. So this idea of putting this together costs money and small communities -- untaxed-based community such as Dettah, N'dilo, and Lutselk'e, it's very tough. We already have limited dollars. Our CPI dollars that we get are earmarked for other projects in the community. And I'm getting tired to hear that well, just use your CPI dollars.

Well, you know, Mr. Speaker, in Kakisa and Enterprise, my heart goes out to that community because they found themselves in a very awkward position last year and the fire just took off, and especially in Enterprise where, you know, a lot of residents there that don't have insurance or anything is that they want to leave the Northwest Territories because, you know, had they got on that fire earlier, we wouldn't be in that situation and we would have residents in Enterprise with homes. But now they don't have insurance and that makes -- my heart goes out to them. In fact, my heart says that the Minister of housing and MACA should step up and try to deal with this issue so that, you know, we can look at houses for the members of that riding.

Mr. Speaker, at the end of the day is that we need a plan, especially a communication plan. When you hear the mayor of Fort Providence driving down the road to Kakisa to alert them about the upcoming fire in that area and we had no phone, and they were caught off guard. And so that's why we need to have a very good plan. And this motion that we have in front of us is just a way to trying to come together to come up with a plan that's going to be good for my four communities and to all the communities in the Northwest Territories. But the thing is that the communities don't have the money as well. So, Mr. Speaker, because of that I am supporting this motion. Thank you. Mahsi.

Thank you, Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Member for Frame Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have a friendly amendment to bring forward for this, which I'll speak to after reading the motion into the record.

I move, seconded by the Member for Great Slave, that Motion 35-20(1), Emergency Plan Support for Municipalities and Community Governments, be amended by replacing the word "direct" with the word "offer", adding "'s" to the word "organization", followed by adding the word "assistance", and adding "in need of assistance" after the words "Northwest Territories community" in the ninth paragraph of the motion.

Member from Frame Lake.

I was just saying we're going to direct the emergency organization to do these plans on behalf of. It'll simply give communities the option. I think we need to be careful not to take autonomy away from our communities when we're passing motions such as this so that we ensure that our communities still hold their decision-making authority. So in the words -- I'll just quote the Mayor Alty of city of Yellowknife on this one.

As a policy principle, I don't want to regress into the time when the GNWT came in and did everything for communities and we didn't have a say. We are an order of government with responsibilities, and we are able to do them when we are provided the adequate resources.

So I think this motion is -- the motion as a whole as amended, if the amendment passes, is about getting communities those resources and so insofar as that is the intent, then I do support it. And so, yeah, the amendment is just to remove the wording and put the decision-making back in the communities' hands as to whether they would like support drafting the emergency plans as opposed to saying it has to be done.

Thank you -- and, you know, I would appreciate the support of my colleagues in moving this amendment forward. Thank you.

Thank you, Member from Frame Lake. To the amendment. Member from Great Slave.

Thanks, Mr. Speaker. I don't have much to say to add to my colleague from Frame Lake aside from the fact that it is important that our municipalities have the ability to fully realize what they want to do and the way they want to do it. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Member from Great Slave. To the amendment. Member from Yellowknife Centre.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'm going to save a lot of time by saying I agree with the amendment. So I'm not going to oppose it. It's not exactly the direction I was going, but it speaks to the exact intent of what I was going with, so I have no problem. I should point out there is no such thing as a friendly amendment. They are amendments, and I'm pleased to accept this one. So if you want to call that friendly, that's fine too. So no problem. Thank you.

Thank you, Member from Yellowknife Centre. Member from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. As a second to the motion, I do support the amendment as well. Mahsi.

To the amendment.

Question.

Question has been called. Show of hands, please. Opposed? Abstentions? Motion has passed.

---Carried

To the motion, with the amendment. Member from Range Lake.

To the motion as amended, yes, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I think we will have to wait for the afteraction review to come forward, and then we'll have more comprehensive recommendations on how we can improve the operation of the emergency management system, inquiry or not, I think everyone supports that exercise, and it's something that we're looking forward to seeing come forward.

Yesterday I raised the issue of requiring, through regulation, that emergency management organizations follow a common system of command and control. These are the kind of things that the department could offer support -- planning support, as this motion contemplates. So I think the idea of it is good. I think this is the role of a public safety department of which MACA is responsible, but it's the role to provide that kind of support. And I think the messaging that's out there now, unintentionally, is that not that you're on your own but it's your responsibility, and you have to go seek the resources to get it done right. And I think this is just a bit more directly explicit in showing that the department has an obligation to ensure the correct functioning of the emergency management system. They have a statutory obligation, of course, but more than just to say, yeah, yeah, you've got a report -- or you've got a plan and it's good; rather, to take a look at it and say well, does the plan work, does the plan meet the needs of this community for improving public safety. I presume that the Minister will abstain but I would like to hear his comments on this as well. Because it's important that we are moving forward and we are moving forward without delay. So I look forward to see how we respond to this both through the afteraction report and through incorporating the suggestions, such as this motion, to improve the emergency management system in the Northwest Territories. I will be supporting it. Thank you.