Debates of October 29, 2024 (day 34)

I now call the Committee of the Whole to order. What is the wish of the committee? I'm going to go to the Member from Inuvik Boot Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, the committee wishes to consider Tabled Document 193-to(1), 2025-2026 Capital Estimates, Legislative Assembly, health and social services, and the Northwest Territories Housing Corporation.

Thank you. Does the committee agree?

Agreed.

Thank you. We'll proceed. Consideration in Committee of the Whole of bills and other matters, Tabled Document 193-20(1). Capital Estimates 2025-2026, Legislative Assembly, October 29th, 2024.

Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 193-20(1), Capital Estimates 2025-2026, Legislative Assembly. Does the Speaker wish to bring in witness into the chamber?

Yes, I do.

Does the committee agree?

Agreed.

Thank you. Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witness into the chamber.

Thank you. Would the Speaker please introduce the witnesses.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. On my right is Kim Wickens, deputy clerk. On my left is Glen Rutland, clerk.

Thank you. The committee has agreed to forego general comments. Does the committee agree to proceed to the detail contained in the tabled documents?

Agreed.

Agreed. Thank you. Committee, the Legislative Assembly begins on page 16. We will defer the totals and review the estimates by activity summary beginning on page 17, with the Office of the Clerk, with information items on page 18. Are there any questions? Seeing none.

Legislative Assembly, Office of the Clerk, infrastructure investment, $500,000. Does the committee agree?

Agreed.

Thank you, Members. Please return now to Legislative Assembly summary found on page 16.

Legislative Assembly, 2025-2026 Capital Estimates, $500,000. Does the committee agree?

Agreed.

Thank you. Does the committee agree that the consideration of the Legislative Assembly is now complete? Does committee agree?

Agreed.

Thank you, committee. And thank you, Mr. Speaker. And sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witnesses from the chambers.

Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 193-20(1), Capital Estimates 2025-2026, Department of Health and Social Services. Does the Minister of Health and Social Services wish to bring witnesses into the chamber? Over to the Minister.

Yes.

Does the committee agree?

Agreed.

Thank you. Sergeant-at-arms, please escort the witnesses into the chambers.

Thank you. Would the Minister please introduce the witnesses.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Joining me today from the Department of Health and Social Services are Chris Clarke McQueen, director of infrastructure planning. And Perry Heath, assistant deputy minister for corporate service and cultural safety.

Thank you. The committee has agreed to forego general comments. Does the committee agree to proceed to detail contained in the tabled documents?

Agreed.

Thank you. Committee, the Department of Health and Social Services begins on page 38. We will defer the department totals and review the estimates by activity summary beginning with administrative and support services on page 39, information items on page 40. Are there any questions? Seeing none.

Health and social services, administrative and support services, infrastructure investment, $500,000. Does committee agree?

Agreed.

Thank you. Moving on to health and social services, programs, beginning on page 41 with information items on page 42. Are there any questions? Seeing none.

Health and social services, health and social programs, infrastructure investment, $33,947,000. Does the committee agree? Okay, I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So I wanted to ask some questions about the wellness and recovery centre plan. So I know that the design work has already been completed, and the project is close to breaking ground. But my hope would be that there could be some opportunities to tweak the design to ensure that it provides services more in line with what we need now in terms of the populations it is intended to serve and the needs that they have. So I want to ask a few questions related to the operational aspects of the building that might have an impact on the capital side, because I think it's best raised before it's too late on this project.

So the one thing I've heard over and over again is that we need a facility where people can stay for more than 12 hours at a time. And currently our system with having the different shelters, the day shelter, other shelter facilities in town, the sobering centre, is that people are constantly having to get up and shuffle from place to place and it doesn't provide somewhere with enough continuity where someone might actually be able to sit and take a breath and think about wellness and recovery and counselling and other opportunities to move forward with their lives.

So in terms of design of this new wellness and recovery centre, is the design adequate to provide somewhere where someone who does not have a home might be able to both stay there overnight and stay there during the day in order to provide that stability for them to make decisions to move forward with their life? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. The wellness and recovery centre is -- the process has already been awarded. It's already been started. The plan for this facility, which is 100 percent funded through the feds, was in order to replace the emergency shelter that we currently have in the day -- the day program -- our day use centre that's connected together downtown Yellowknife. The history of that building, I'm sure the Member is very well aware of the problems that happened within -- and the struggles that happened within Yellowknife is that this continuously was being bumped around and moved around because of the access to space. So this is a dedicated space now for this home. And I fully understand where the Member is coming from, that, you know, more robust services. But this facility in its whole is to provide overnight services and day use services for those members that are currently accessing the services now.

What the Member -- you know, and I'm not going to put words into their mouth, but when you start to expand on those services, those are other services that, you know, may not be the best place to be attached to this facility but to be able to provide them with, you know, spaces elsewhere. So I'll leave it at that, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So just to confirm, can the Minister confirm that the answer is no, that there will not be opportunities in this new wellness and recovery centre for someone to both sleep there and stay there during the day to access wellness and recovery services, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister for the question.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, yes, the -- there is an overnight space for -- and there is currently an overnight space emergency shelter, and those users do use the day facility currently and so they would continue to use that space. How the program evolves, you know, once we're in that space and how we operate the program and, you know, once we're in the space, you know, may change and may be able to provide other supports, but at this time right now what we're -- where we are is we're just replacing what we currently have. And, yes, they do stay overnight and then they can, you know, be there during the day. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife North.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. So my understanding from the Minister's response to previous questions is that there would be a capacity of 85 people during the day and an overnight capacity of 31 designated sleeping spaces. Is there any potential within the current design to have more designated sleeping spaces, if there's a capacity of 85 people during the day, to allow more of those people to be able to sleep there if they need to? Because as we know, we are really struggling to find enough sleeping spaces for people in Yellowknife. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.

Yes, I believe that there are actually more sleeping spaces in the new facility than we currently have and there is a capacity under, you know -- and I think built into it that can be expanded further. For more detail into that, I can turn it over to Mr. Heath if that's okay with you, Mr. Chair.

Yes, please proceed.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. As mentioned, there is 31 designated spaces that are flexible, but the facility also has the ability to -- in the common areas, like the community hall and some of the open spaces, that it provides surge capacity if necessary. The complications around that, though, is the staffing model will have to change accordingly. So you can't say we have a hard 99 or 85 people there because as you increase staff, then you would minimize the amount of people that are there. So there's -- we have to strike a balance around from an operational perspective, but we do have the ability to flex and use spaces for sleeping provided we have appropriate staff to monitor. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife North.

Okay, thank you for that clarification. Another thing I wanted to flag was the fact that with the current design there is to be, like, a small empty parking lot next door sandwiched between the Tree of Peace and this new wellness and recovery centre. And so it's currently an empty parking lot. And it's unlikely that someone will, you know, take on that lot and choose to, you know, build something new in that particular location. So I'm wondering if the department has considered acquiring this lot and using it as, like, an outdoor space that could benefit people using the wellness and recovery centre and whether there's been any coordination or conversations with Tree of Peace in terms of a space that might be able to benefit both facilities and also help, you know, provide safety downtown in that if there is, you know, safe outdoor spaces for people to be and hang out that is connected to the wellness and recovery centre and the Tree of Peace that that could be sort of a really healthy addition to our downtown. Has that been considered in the design or development of this project? Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. If I may turn it over to Mr. Heath. Thank you.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the ADM.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. So that parcel, we have considered it, and we actually reached out to the landowner and went as far as the preliminary environmental assessment on that site. We were engaged in discussions with the city of Yellowknife for around the proposed use for that site. Unfortunately, with the closing of the contract tender, we found ourselves in a situation where we may not have enough budget, available budget, in the project to acquire and develop that space in a manner that meets all the requirements of the city of Yellowknife. We are actively working at it and hoping as we move through the project and we understand the project contingencies and how it moves forward that there's still a possibility that we can form a partnership with the city of Yellowknife potentially and take advantage of that space. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife North.