Thank you. That is actually great news to hear that this is being actively worked on and considered. I would urge the department to move forward with this -- you know, to continue to pursue this and, you know, if it's a matter of taking a little bit of extra money, considering bringing this forward in a future capital budget, I can't imagine that, you know, an outdoor space with some seating or something would break the bank in terms of our capital budget. So I would encourage the department to continue to pursue that. I'm running out of time so I'll leave it there. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I was just reading some notes there. I just wanted to follow up on a particular area my colleague had just raised a moment ago under the wellness and recovery centre area. Oddly enough, I'm not going to speak specifically to the wellness recovery but sort of how we're going to deal with the broader picture, and she mentioned about sort of space and whatnot for people to stay, whether it's stay overnight or sleep during the day, and we have a perfectly good territorial treatment centre which is, you know, I hate to say it, two blocks over. And is there any consideration about how we're going to deal with the population, and could that provide a solution? The government's been heating that building for two years and, you know, it was a -- it was a place for young people to stay with challenges - let me not understate that, but we don't need to go into the details of what type of challenges. But it, you know, has a large kitchen facility, support area. It even has classrooms that we can offer supportive programming for people in this kind of nature who might need supportive services. Because I'm not sure this build one centre to solve them all will work. The size is concerning with me, but I said I wasn't going to speak to it specifically. But I do view that it's going to attract a larger population than we're anticipating. So is there any way to see about sort of linking the two? Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.
Thank you. At this time, that is not in the budget and in the capital plan. But I think where the project on the wellness and recovery centre, you know, is 100 percent funded and was based -- the proposal to the federal government was based on replacing and providing a fixed home for the services that are going into there. As for the other building, I can turn that over to ADM Mr. Heath if that's okay.
Thank you. I'll go to the ADM.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Actually, the department is working collaboratively with the NTHSSA and the Department of Infrastructure in finding a way to bring that facility back online for a program use that was similar to its original intent. We have a lot of work to do on that and there's some technical complications around that facility that we're working through, but we're planning for future use in the facility. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you. And I thank both the Minister and the deputy minister for that. Is it -- or assistant deputy minister, although the last time I kept calling someone a higher title, they got the job so maybe it's good luck.
So more specifically, Mr. Chairman, can the assistant deputy minister or the Minister enlighten me as to two parts: The first part being the specific date on when the wellness recovery centre will open but, furthermore, what purpose are they working towards initiating a revised service at the TTC. In other words, is it compatible, does it work together, does it work in tandem, what's their objective now that it's been raised that this is something they're working on? Thank you.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, if I -- the first part of the question is the occupancy date for the wellness and recovery centre would be late 2026. If -- and then for the TTC building, as the Member has referred to, I will put -- bring that over to -- pass that over to the ADM to respond to that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife Centre.
Sorry. I thought the ADM was going to answer.
Oh, sorry. My apologies.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. As I mentioned in my previous comment, it is a program that was similar to there before I tied to the use. There are some technical complications with that building I won't get into. It's not necessarily in this budget. But we're really working hard to keep the program in line with the original scope which was linked to use. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll tell you what, I won't belabour this point on the TTC, but I would like maybe just one clarification which is when can we anticipate some type of idea or plan, proposal, of this particular initiative and that probably would be enough specific to the TTC. Thank you.
Thank you. I'll go to the Minister.
Give that to the ADM. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. Okay, I'll go to the ADM.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Unfortunately we don't have concrete timelines right now. We're working as diligently as we can. There's been tons of interest in this building from other NGOs and sectors around this and we've recently, you know, trying really hard to move as fast as we can, but right now I can't commit to the timelines unfortunately. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'll go to the Member from Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would appreciate any committee update you can provide on that. And I can appreciate that these are just plans, not initiated yet but probably sort of bigger picture scoping of the issue at this particular time, and that's fine. Is there any way they could provide a monthly cost as to what the current day shelter costs the government in its current form, in its current location, where the old visitors centre is.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.
Thank you. I would have to get back to the Member for that.
Okay, thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, I'll accept that. If the Minister could also elaborate in a manner of, say, staffing capacity, things along that, contractual obligations, whether it's janitorial, whether it's support services, so I'm just looking at an overall cost of, yes, it costs X dollars, but this is what it takes to run it. If we could get sort of that compendium of information, I'll just leave it as a block rather than trying to tie up three or four more minutes of trying to make sure I hit every I and cross every T. Thank you.
Thank you. I'll go to the Minister.
Yes, thank you. At this time, you know, the plan is is to take the money from there where it currently is, which is the operations budget, in the operations budget and then we can move that to the new. But I can commit to making sure we have the numbers as best as we can to the Member.
Okay, thank you. Is there any further questions from the Members? Okay. Seeing none, continuing on.
I'm going to continue with health and social services, health and social services programs, infrastructure investments, $33,947,000. Does the committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Moving on to the long-term and continuing care services, beginning on page 43 with information items on page 44. Are there any questions? I'll go to the Member from Frame Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, first, kind of a preliminary question. What is our current total number of occupied long-term care beds in Hay River, Fort Simpson, and Fort Smith, and what is the current waitlist in each of those communities? Thank you.
Thank you. I'll go to the Minister.
Current long-term care beds we have are 204. And then we have a number of residents residing in long-term care beds, 182. And people on the waitlist, 35 currently.
Thank you. I'll go to the Member from Frame Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'd asked about those three communities specifically, so if the Minister could just break out that information in Hay River, Fort Simpson, and Fort Smith, please.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.
Thank you. So long-term care beds in Hay River currently are 23. There's 23 beds used, and there are 6 people on the waitlist. Deh Cho, 17, and 17 people in the beds and 2 people on the waitlist. In Fort Smith, there's 26 long-term care beds, and 26 people occupying those beds, and nobody on the waitlist. Thank you.
Thank you. I'll go to the Member from Frame Lake.
Okay, thank you. So by my calculations -- and I'm going to be speaking about a couple of different reports here. So we did a long-term care review in 2015 which kind of initiated the process of planning for these facilities, updated that review in 2020, which found that the 2015 review had overestimated what the demand is going to be. And so based on these new numbers, the first year that they projected demand for was 2024. And I would just note in Hay River, they estimated there was going to be 35, a demand of 35; in Fort Simpson, they estimated there was going to be a demand of 25; in Fort Smith, they estimated there was going to be a demand of 33. So in every case in those three communities, the 2020 review, which was an update of the 2015, still overestimated what the demand was going to be.
So considering that the projections have been shown in multiple cases of reanalysis, one of the reanalyses is by me but, I mean, I'm -- I'm comparing numbers to numbers here. In both of these cases, to have been -- the estimates have been -- shown to be too high. Does the department feel it would be advisable to reassess these numbers and approach prior to moving forward with construction of new facilities? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'll go to the Minister.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Chair, we are currently working on the review of the bed projections. I think there was a commitment that this would be done every five years, and we are currently working on these -- this current, the bed projections. And those numbers are also going to help guide us with the projects that are on here that are in the planning stages, so I'll leave it at that. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Frame Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So in particular -- well, maybe I'll get into specifics on this one. So I note that there -- can the Minister give us an update as to where they're at with construction of the Hay River facility.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Minister.
Thank you. I will pass that over to the director, Mr. Clarke McQueen.
The director.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. Currently, we are in the design process, and we have committed to doing community engagement and have gone now twice to Hay River to do design workshop engagements to incorporate the various desires of the community. And we are anticipating -- so we are anticipating that we will have -- the RFP for design services that went out in 2023 should be completed by October -- or should be completed by September of 2025. And then after that, we will be going out for tender for the facility, then we will be going into construction documentation phase, doing the drawings for the building, and then in 2025 going out for tender for construction of the facility.
Thank you. I'm going to go to the Member from Frame Lake.
