Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, the committee wishes to consider Tabled Document 274-20(1), 2025-2026 Main Estimates, Education, Culture and Employment; and, time permitting, Housing Northwest Territories. Thank you.
Thank you, Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. Does the committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. We will take a short recess and resume with the first item. Thank you.
---SHORT RECESS
I now call Committee of the Whole back to order. Committee, we have agreed to consider Tabled Document 275-20(1), 2025-2026 Main Estimates. We will now consider the Department of Education, Culture and Employment. Does the Minister of Education, Culture and Employment wish to bring witnesses into the House?
Yes, please, Madam Chair.
Does the committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort the witnesses into the chamber.
Thank you, Sergeant-at-Arms. Would the Minister please introduce her witnesses.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, to my left, I have James Fulford who is the deputy minister of education, culture and employment. And on my left, I have the assistant deputy minister of labour and income support who is Nicole Beauchamp.
Committee, we will resume where we left off. The next key activity is income security beginning on page 49 with information items on page 52. Are there any questions? Mr. Morse.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Sorry, I wave off my wave.
Okay. Member for the Sahtu.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My question to the Minister is on the seniors' home heating subsidy. I'm, first of all, glad to see an increase. And the qualifications for this program is really concerning to a lot of recipients; I'm like many other MLAs from the region that hear these concerns. And it's always the fact of the threshold qualification. The recipients are exceeding the threshold qualification by doing something they've always have done in their past by earning extra money here and there as a pensioner and selling their crafts and/or doing part-time work only to find out that they don't qualify. Is there any willingness or has there been any discussion on increasing that threshold within the department so that, number one, we can encourage our elders or support our elders to keep busy by earning other income and at the same time keep physically fit as they've done all their life? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Member for the Sahtu. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. And thank you to the Member for highlighting this program. It's certainly the program that I hear the most about, both on the floor and also certainly from constituents. It's a program that's meant to -- for low to mid income seniors to help them address the cost of their fuel. And the policy is to help them up to 80 percent, and then to support them on the budgeting side for the additional 20 percent. And people who have needs beyond that are encouraged, of course, to -- if they meet the criteria, to apply for income support for seniors and persons with disabilities if they require more than that, that 80 percent threshold there. I appreciate what the Member is saying in regards to reviewing the thresholds for income for seniors, and so that is work that the Department of Education, Culture and Employment is currently undertaking. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Minister. Member for the Sahtu.
Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. I had to borrow your earpiece there; I think somebody's trying to stop me from setting some demands.
I'm glad to hear that the Minister is open to review that. Like any other efficient policy, it's only good as its periodic or annual reviews. So I shall take that home that -- and tell some of the recipients to the program that, yes, the Minister is going to be reviewing that. We can understandably say that these voices from the recipients to the program are really being addressed on their high costs of living in most of these little communities, and you can understand the remoteness of the Sahtu which really escalates the cost of living. So thank you for that reply. Mahsi.
Thank you. I don't hear a question in there. Would you like to respond to that, Minister?
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. No, I appreciate the Member's consistent advocacy for the people that he serves. Mahsi.
Thank you. Member for Mackenzie Delta.
Can the Minister explain what this --
-- sorry there. Member for Mackenzie Delta.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Looking at your actuals from 2023 up to the main estimates of 2025-2026, every year there's been an increase. Can you give me some information on that as to where it's going to, income support rather than, you know, what they call disabled or people that really need it; where's this money going? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, the increases in programming, the bulk of it comes from income assistance, and that is from the review that was done in the previous Assembly on income assistance that separated seniors and persons with disabilities into their own income assistance. And so there was additional funding put in to that and put into income assistance. There was also adjustments made on the market basket measure to ensure that the dollars that Northerners were getting were reflective of the actual costs, for example, of food in the Northwest Territories.
There's also an increase that is seen here under the seniors' home heating subsidy. And so what the Department of Education, Culture and Employment has traditionally done where you see here with the actuals that are different than the main estimates under the seniors' home heating subsidy is because the policy states that, you know, we strive to support elders across the territory up to 80 percent of their fuel costs should they meet the criteria of this program, because of the rising cost of fuel we were constantly having to fund from within and find those dollars in order to ensure that we were supporting seniors. And what we did this year -- and so you'll see in the main estimates for this year there's actually an increase, and that was based on forced growth. We were successful in getting forced growth funding for the seniors' home heating subsidy in reflecting how important that program is for northern seniors and elders. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Mackenzie Delta.
So it's referring to the income assistance portion of this document here. From 2023-2024, it was $36 million, and 2025-2026, it's $44 million; that's a substantial increase. And, you know, it's disturbing. I've been talking about this since day one when I've gotten this -- started sessions, and the increase is quite big. And, you know, are there, in the future, is there a look at maybe cutting some of these costs or, you know, maybe consulting with the communities on where we can make measures work for the communities. Especially the recipients, I don't think this is helping them. It's helping them with money but, you know, in the long run you've got to give them some hope. And, you know, is there some way we can look at cutting these costs? Maybe consulting with the communities? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. So absolutely, Madam Chair, the Member is right, there is a significant increase to the investment from 44 -- sorry, in 2024-2025, it was $43.8 million, and now it's $44.6 million there for income assistance in that line item. The actuals were lower in 2023-2024, and that was because of the delayed implementation of the new program. So the increase that you see there is just under a million dollars from main estimate to main estimate comparing those, and that is from the -- the Member is right, it is from the new program. And the other increases that you see there are also from the increases in the collective agreement funding for staff that work within that program.
So depending -- I think what the Member is discussing here is I guess two things. So changes in the criteria of income assistance. And then the second piece would be the ability, for example, Indigenous governments to draw down the administration of income assistance. And that is certainly something that is allowed within the current regulatory framework and legislation for income assistance. Thank you.
Thank you. Next I have the Member for Monfwi.
Okay, thank you. Can the Minister explain what this senior citizen supplementary benefit represents. It was up in 2023-2024, and it stayed the same, 2024-2025, and to 2025-2026, 3.2. It went down a little bit, but so if the Minister can explain why there's change in this senior supplementary benefit. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, shortly here I'm going to pass over to my left to ADM Beauchamp. But this is a benefit that low to medium income seniors receive. And the number of seniors that we have in the territory are certainly growing. But through yourself, Madam Chair, may I pass to the assistant deputy minister.
ADM Beauchamp.
Thank you. So the senior citizen supplementary benefit is a benefit that assists low income seniors with the cost of living. It's associated and aligned with the old age security and guaranteed income supplement. In 2024, we did receive an increase in our budget to address the uptake of approximately 20 percent of seniors now qualifying for this benefit. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Monfwi.
Yeah, thank you. Yes, thank you for that information.
You know, in small communities with the high cost of living, there's a lot of elders that are -- you know, they're doing part-time jobs to offset their living just like I know there are some in here too as well, and then, you know, like, the higher North, it's more expensive. But lately I've been getting phone calls from a lot of our citizens, senior citizens, in my region, and the fuel delivery -- fuel subsidy for Wekweeti is $750. For other communities, it's lower. So I just wanted to ask if that $750, for example in Wekweeti, is that for one time, or is that -- for how many -- like, how long can they use the subsidy within the one fiscal year; how many months?
Thank you. Minister of Education, Culture and Employment.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, the $750 is monthly from September through April.
Thank you. Member from Monfwi.
Well, high cost of living, you know, some of these people, like you said, from -- okay, that's a long time but they do run out, you know. Like, I mean, they use up the subsidy program before the year is, you know, over. Even now, you know, like, there are -- because of the high costs. And so, you know, I know that some of the elders were saying 500 is not enough. 400, you know? Because they already ran out before the year end. And we still have, you know, until April. Like, I mean, we're not -- the cold month is still here. We still have March. And sometimes in April too, especially up North. So that $750 is not going long ways, and they do run out before the year is up. So that's why there's a lot of concern. And they do part-time job, you know, to pay for extra month. And even that -- because they're doing that, they're being punished by the department. Some of them are not eligible for this fuel subsidy program. There's a lot of them that got denied. So I want to know if -- you know, within this budget for the fuel subsidy, the income threshold, did the department review the income threshold of the seniors in the regions? Like, is it included in this budget? Because I know that there's some seniors that are not making -- that are living on fixed income, and they are not living on GNWT pension. So some of -- they're making less than $200,000, but yet they get -- they're denied the subsidy program. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. So, Madam Chair, certainly the program's not designed to cover 100 percent of the expenses of seniors and elders across the Northwest Territories. It was designed to cover up to an average of 80 percent of those fuel costs. And so that's why the client navigators will work with seniors to determine what their income is, what money they do have coming in, and can work with them on a budget that would work within their income threshold amount. One of the things that I think is really important here as well, and certainly the Member for the Sahtu asked about it as well, was the review of the income thresholds. And so certainly that's work that is being done right now. And as such, because that work is not completed yet, it's not reflected within this budget. Thank you.
Thank you. Member from Monfwi.
Okay, well, the fuel subsidy program, the senior home heating subsidy program is very important for many of our constituents, especially in the small communities, so, yes, I would like to see that review. It would be good so that we can send the message back to our elders. And it's important for them because they're working, you know. Like, they're working, doing work, which is good, but because they need to -- they have to live, you know. They did their job of raising their family all these years, and now we're penalizing them, you know, because they're doing extra work just to stay alive, you know, just to have the lights on, the heat on, you know, and buy some groceries. And because of that, they're not eligible for some of the programs that, you know -- if they were living down south, it would be different, but living in the North it's different. The high cost of living. So it's -- I don't like that. I don't agree with, you know, some of the stuff in here. But I'm glad that you said that there's going to be a review. I hope that the income threshold will be increased so that many of our elders will be eligible for the senior home heating subsidy program.
Can we go on to student finance assistance, or are we on that topic yet, or do I still -- oh, okay.
Yes, you may.
Okay, thank you. Student Financial Assistance program, okay, it did went up a great deal. I mean, that's really good. So it means that -- so a lot of students are using the Student Financial Assistance program. So how many of these students are -- it would be nice if we can have a breakdown of the regions and the Indigenous and non-Indigenous and how many are doing -- whether it's Indigenous or non-Indigenous but how many of this is student loan, part of the student loan program. Thank you.
Thank you. Minister.
Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, if the Member would like a breakdown of Indigenous versus non-Indigenous students and also the regions where -- the geographical regions across the territory where students come from, we can certainly pull the data that we have and would be happy to supply it to committee.
