Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, I think that one of the issues that we have certainly been attempting to look into greatly is that there's a requirement for consultation with the Indigenous governments on land transfer within the municipality, and to approach a bulk land transfer from the perspective of there's not a clear definition of what the intent is for all of the parcels that may be part of that proposed land transfer is one of the certainly challenging aspects of that approach. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Member for Range Lake.
Thank you. So I guess the intention -- I'm somewhat perplexed because I guess the intention of the policy -- what's being called for -- and I think my colleague, the Member for Inuvik Boot Lake, yes, was mentioning that, you know, let -- like, you transfer it to the municipality and then they decide what happens to it. And that's my intention -- or that's where my head goes to, because you want to give the municipalities or local authorities the flexibility to develop at their own pace and to make use of opportunities, whether that's selling land and making a profit of off it, whether it's developing land for affordable housing, whatever. So the rights issue, of course, that's always going to be something that the Crown has to consider in this country, and I don't take issue with that. I would note, though, that the Yellowknives Dene in particular have been consulted on this in the past and I think have been supported through things like -- through bodies like the NWTAC. I think the Metis have also been -- have also had discussions around this as well with Yellowknife city administration and council. So just to the other point, why do we care as a government what municipalities do with their land in a request like this when what we're trying to do is give them the flexibility to make use of land within municipal boundaries. And that's important. It's not land out in the middle of nowhere; it's lands within their own municipal boundaries. Thank you.
Minister of Environment and Climate Change.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, so a couple of points. Certainly, one I think is that, you know, there is a section 35 component to this process that needs to be recognized, and there's a couple of other challenges as well in that under the Act there's requirements for surveys as part of the one of the challenges, and that's part of the conversation that we've been having with the city of Yellowknife and trying to scale back to something that's certainly more manageable from the financial and capacity perspective of surveys. There's also zoning bylaws that come into place. So part of that process of a bulk land transfer would need to ensure that all of the zoning requirements have been met. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Member for Range Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So can the Minister waive those survey requirements within current legislation? And because I can ask more than one question I'll say, and if not, can the Minister recommend a solution to this problem? Because I understand there are technical issues with this transfer but rather than focus on the challenges, I think there's real ways to focus on the opportunities. We know that the survey requirements are one of them and there's a financial cost. We could, for example, develop legislation that would transfer the administration of the lands the way that the GNWT currently administers it over to the city that they could later rezone. So there's solutions to these problems. Is the Minister able to provide any of the solutions here and commit to some of them? Because I'd like to see this process move forward. It's been -- I mean, I was an MLA before when we were discussing this and not much as changed since then. Thank you.
Minister of Environment and Climate Change.
Yes, thank you, thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to the Member for the question. A couple of parts to my answer. You know, right now we've had some -- in the last few weeks, a couple of months, I guess, even, we've had some very productive conversations with the city of Yellowknife on a -- as I said earlier, you know, a bit of a scaled back approach, and the survey requirement does not fall under the legislation that I am responsible for. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Member for Range Lake.
Thank you. Okay, well, I mean, hopefully when we're discussing with our municipal partners, whether it's the city of Yellowknife, the First Nation, or any -- or Indigenous beneficiary group or whatever, a local authority, that we are involving more than just one Minister and one department. And I know that's the case. It's just I would like -- it would be nice if we saw a clear path forward. And I mean nice is an easy way to put it. I think it's required at this point. Like, the urgency here for housing, for example, has been well stated in this Assembly. The urgency to shore up our economy at a time when we are in very much an existential crisis as a nation means we need to move quickly on this stuff. We can't afford another ten years. And I know the city is the only one taking the government up on this currently, but it would be nice if we, again -- maybe nice isn't the right word.
The right thing to do I think at this point is to really come to terms with this, find a pathway forward, and then do it for everyone, right, rather than just do it on an application basis. Because what we need to do is open up markets in the Northwest Territories for this kind of development. I kind of -- I disagree with the kind of characterization that we've got market and nonmarket-based communities. That's the current regime. But I think they could change if we had the right incentives in place. And the first incentive to building and local development is land. Land access is crucial for the economy, Madam Chair. And we just don't have enough of it in the Northwest Territories. And in this case, this is not an example of a land -- an outstanding land claim holding up development or holding up the opportunities that are inherent to that. This is something -- most of this land that's not already under claim -- because those things aren't even under discussion right now. This is public land owned by the GNWT that's not -- that's held within municipal boundaries. That's the only thing we're talking about here. And it just seems like every time we have this discussion, there are a million reasons why we can't and no one's trying to engage in how we can. So I'll continue to advocate for this, but I think we need to change our mindset and figure out how to knock down those barriers and have that "can do" mindset so we can get this done. We can't wait any longer. We really, really can't because the more the clock ticks, the farther we fall behind. And I don't know if the Minister wants to comment on that.
But the other question I have is the exact same issue which is the North Slave recreational leasing plan that has kind of gone ahead, pulled back. They've carved out piecemeal areas within the North Slave for some people and based on agreements that were never formalized, but they did that anyway, and then there's other people who are still waiting for leases because of various reasons, largely identified with section 35 consultations. But regardless, if we had a policy framework for recreational land leasing in the North Slave from the GNWT that was clear, provided a pathway to those leases, we could give a lot of certainty to people who are looking for those opportunities. And whether or not there's a claim that slows things down or that denies a lease, at least there's a framework going forward and clear expectations around what those frameworks are. So I guess those are my overarching comments on this. I welcome any feedback. But we can't keep waiting -- we can't keep doing the same thing and expecting we're going to get farther ahead. Thank you.
Minister of Environment and Climate Change.
Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. I can certainly agree that, you know, urgency is important here, and I think we've been demonstrating that. Currently, we're prioritizing the applications toward supporting the housing needs across the NWT as one aspect of urgency. And currently our work with the city of Yellowknife is for them to identify their priority areas so that we can work with them to advance those priorities. If we want to sit back and focus solely on changing the legislation, that's a longer process and we're really focused on, but today we need, you know, to support the communities and their opportunities to increase the housing stock across the NWT. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Range Lake.
Thank you to the Minister for these last ten seconds. Can I get a commitment -- a timeframe for when at least the Minister will report back to, let's say, the Members -- the Yellowknife Members or the House, or whatever forum he chooses, on when they expect to have concluded the transfer of lands to the city of Yellowknife. Thank you.
Minister of Environment and Climate Change.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, as I indicated earlier, those conversations with the city are ongoing and happy to answer questions on the floor or provide an update to the Member as progress is made. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Okay. No further questions, please turn to page 98.
Environment and Climate Change, regulatory, assessment and authorizations, operations expenditure summary, 2025-2026 Main Estimates, $15,131,000. Does the committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Moving on to wildlife and forest management, beginning on page 101 with information items on page 105. Are there any questions? Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, can the Minister please tell me -- this is based off their business plan which I believe on their plan is page 36, in the entire document page 76, the business plan update. There is a discussion around monitoring ungulate species. So can the Minister please let me know what ungulate species surveys are slated to occur for the fiscal year 2025-2026. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister for Environment and Climate Change.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I will pass to the deputy minister. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Deputy minister Jenkins.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I appreciate the use of the word "ungulate"; however, we will have to return with the listing of the monitoring programs for those animals next year. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I also enjoy a good ten cent word. I -- this question might have to get returned as well, and that's totally fine. But can the Minister provide committee with a list of the most recent surveys by caribou herd by year with estimated populations and ideally with a range map for each herd. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister of Environment and Climate Change.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Yes, happy to provide that information. I could give you a few of the key statistics from 2024. So the current statistics -- oh sorry.
The Bathurst last survey was in 2021 at 6,240 animals. Bluenose-East, 2023, at 39,525. Bluenose-West, 2021, at 18,440. Cape Bathurst in 2024 at 97,002. And the Tuk Peninsula in 2024 at 27,098. Certainly range plans, so we have the Wekeezhii. Work is going on to complete a final boreal caribou range plan in this area. The working group met in March of 2024 and had bilateral meetings with the Tlicho government, the southern NWT, and the Sahtu.
So I think maybe to get a more accurate detailed response for the Member, it's on the website, and we're also happy to provide the data and the requested map. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And yeah, no, that's perfect. I didn't expect the Minister to rattle off all that data right now, but thank you very much. It does paint a little bit of a picture of how often we're getting out and monitoring those herds. I'm just curious specifically because the dollar amount for range planning is fairly static since last year, but in the 2023-2024 actuals they're much higher. Caribou monitoring slightly decreased but not significantly so. So, yeah, more information about what is planned for the coming year is most appreciated.
Madam Chair, I am interested also in specifically the disease monitoring. I want to thank the department for their efforts around wastewater monitoring and all the good work that Taiga does on that -- that item. Obviously that's a different activity. But here in this activity, the department speaks to in their business plan the number of wildlife health monitoring programs, investigations, and outbreak responses. And so my question, Madam Chair, is is the department planning and monitoring for the return of migratory birds with the Avian flu outbreak in the southern part of North America? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister of Environment and Climate Change.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, yes, that work does happen in the Northwest Territories. The Avian flu, ECC has -- there were six cases to date in the NWT: Three in 2022, one in 2023, and one in 2024. And we also have a media campaign that was launched in 2022, I believe, which provided information to the general public that sort of coincided with some of the actual bird deaths over time. And there are multiple federal funding sources that support this work and other work in the sector. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And can the Minister tell me if he's working with health and social services to do more public awareness campaigns, especially if there are more diseased animals, diseased/deceased animals found in the Northwest Territories. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Environment and Climate Change.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Madam Chair, it's been the practice of ECC to take an all-of-government approach to certainly issues of this magnitude that are high on the radar across the country. So we do work with whichever department is appropriate depending on the circumstance, Madam Chair. Thank you.
Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And can the Minister tell me if there were concerns about diseased animals aside from contacting obviously an ECC officer in your region to report dead birds, is there any foresight or planning around whether or not we will be hearing more public information if, indeed, there becomes a bigger issue around this Avian flu? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister of Environment and Climate Change.
Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. And thank you to the Member for raising this. I think it's a great opportunity to put some focus on this event as it's happening across pretty much a good chunk of North America. So certainly part of our approach to this has been putting out public service announcements, you know, warning against touching dead birds that you find for any reason and, you know, ensuring that we're contacting our local wildlife officers to report any of those instances. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'll stop beating the dead bird.
Now I have the Member from Frame Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I have to follow up a bad pun like that but try to get back on the subject here.
Madam Chair, I just wanted to understand better; I note that there's some pretty significant fluctuations between year over year in the forest management division. I have to assume that that's related to wildfire response. But just noting that, you know, we went down to $47 million in 2024-2025 mains, and then actually ended up spending about $90 million. Can the department first explain the reduction down to $51 million this year, and is the department confident that this will give them the resources they need to fight fires that may arise. Fingers crossed that they don't.
Minister of Environment and Climate Change.
Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. Yeah, certainly, so there was a small increase in the base funding, if you will, want to call it that. So the approach is to take a base funding approach that covers the -- essentially the day-to-day operations for the season and then take a supplemental appropriation approach to fund if there's significant wildfire activity. So within that budget, it has the capacity to address a small number of actual wildfire events. And if you go beyond that small number, then we're certainly going to be looking for supplemental appropriation. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Member for Frame Lake.
Thank you. Similarly, I'd just note that there's a variation year over year, a much smaller variation in compensation and benefits. Is it for the same reason? Is this related to staffing up or down as need be in order to address any given year's fire activity, or is there a bit more to that story as well? Thanks.
Minister of Environment and Climate Change.
