Thank you, Madam Chair. I understand that the Minister of health and the public administrator will be presenting some of their initial findings and scoping to committee, and I hope that information can be made public towards the end of this first quarter. Is there any contemplation around the work that HSS and EIA are doing together on these crucial tasks to sort of give a very plain language overview for the public around their vision and expected outcomes on these two sort of pillars of healthcare sustainability on both operations and financial pieces? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister of Executive and Indigenous Affairs.
Thank you. I'll hand it to Mr. Courtoreille.
Mr. Courtoreille.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So to the Member's question, we do have a monitoring and evaluation framework, and that is a key piece of -- that's a key scoping document for laying out how we're going to do this work, how we're going to monitor progress, and how we're going to measure success, and the tools and the logic model are all inclusive as part of that document. So that's going to be helpful for that response. And I guess that's just my longwinded way of saying that yes, absolutely, we would be happy to provide a plain language translation of that document. Thank you.
Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm good for this section.
Thank you. Next, I have Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So I also wanted to ask some questions about this unit. I know that according to the monitoring and evaluation plan of this unit, my understanding is that the first year or so is to be focusing on finding what's core and not core. And then after that, looking at diving deeper or digging deeper into specific areas in terms of finding efficiencies or different ways of doing things. My concern with that timeline is that, you know, there's an urgent need to improve healthcare system; find, you know, ways to balance the budget; find efficiencies and that, you know, the work of the public administrator might be working at a different pace or, you know, than this unit and that by the time this unit gets around to starting to find efficiencies, you know, work of the public administrator will have already proceeded to be trying to balance the budget, etcetera.
So I wonder if there's consideration to altering the work plan or the sort of monitoring and evaluation plan of this unit to better line up with the urgent work that's happening to, you know, try to balance the budget and find efficiencies in a way that ensures that our frontline services and system stays robust and able to serve people. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister of Executive and Indigenous Affairs.
Thank you. And these are the conversations that I've had with the Minister of Health and Social Services and we've collectively had with our respective teams because we do have, as I mentioned, the health authorities, the public administrator, the department of health, and the healthcare system sustainability unit. We wanted to move in a coordinated fashion. And so already the -- those conversations are happening, the work of the healthcare system sustainability unit is -- it's not that there will be, you know, no progress and then all of a sudden a final product. There's progress along the way. They are learning things as they go, and that is being incorporated into the conversations they're having with the public administrator as he is looking at the overall system and the governance of the system. And so it's not -- that work is happening right now, I can say that. And we expect a preliminary report in the spring from the unit on those -- the definition of the core services with the final report later in the year. And perhaps Mr. Courtoreille might have something to add. Thank you.
Mr. Courtoreille.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And just to Premier's point, that preliminary analysis is going to happen a little bit quicker than over the next year. That analysis is going to look at defining what the programs and services are that's currently being delivered, and we're hoping to have that costed out so that we can understand some of the cost drivers a little bit better, and then that will come late spring, early summer, that work. And then the next step will be to use that work to help prioritize the next phase of our analysis which will be a little bit of a deeper dive into those priority areas. But to the Premier's point, that collaborative approach with the department and the health authorities is expected to happen throughout the entire process. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I very much appreciate that willingness by this unit to sort of be flexible or work with the other initiatives that are underway to sort of change the plan as necessary. I mean, I'll be honest and say my biggest fear about the sort of initial exercise of sorting it into core or non-core services and what's needed and not needed is that we'll just take a big look at everything we're already doing and then ask the question what are people going to miss most if we take it away, and if we feel like people won't notice as much or miss it as much then we'll just sort of take it away because it looks like a cost saving opportunity. But to me, the right approach would be to start with what are we actually trying to accomplish, what are the different possible ways of accomplishing it, are we choosing the right way of accomplishing something, the right way that's most cost efficient, that's most culturally appropriate, the most effective in terms of helping people over the long term with their health. So I mean I offer those as comments that I hope the unit will take to heart and -- because I know often politically, we just look for the -- you know, we look for some easy wins and we look for things that people aren't going to object too strongly against or if people won't notice if we take things away. But I think with health care, we really need to go back to basics in terms of what are we -- what are we trying to accomplish here.
One thing that I wanted to ask about the evaluation framework is that my understanding was that the plan was that after a year, the department would start coming up with some indicators to track, you know, are things getting better, are we having success with our work. But my concern would be that isn't that too late to start tracking things because if we want to see a change over time, if we want to know if the work is improving things, don't we have to start monitoring and tracking the situation now and then we'll see if things change and get better over time. We need to establish the baseline of where we're at now to be able to compare to once, you know, significant changes are made within the system, have things gotten better or have things gotten worse. Is this unit able to help create that kind of baseline now in terms of establishing indicators and starting to monitor them now so we know what our baseline is? Thank you, Madam Chair.
Minister of Executive and Indigenous Affairs.
Thank you. First, I'll note that the plan isn't to just see what's easiest to cut without the public noticing for the sake of cutting. The idea is to work to achieve the priorities of this Assembly to improve access to basic health care. And so that's the ultimate goal, And how we get there is going to be determined on, you know, what we find out during this analysis. But I'm not looking for easy, you know, political decisions; I'm looking to improve the healthcare system, whatever that -- whatever that takes. But for the remainder of the question, I'd hand it to Mr. Courtoreille. Thank you.
Mr. Courtoreille.
Thank you, Madam Chair. And, yeah, I think that's really the work that's going to be happening in the first phase of the monitoring and evaluation framework, is to understand what are the programs and services that we're delivering, what data is available for us to track and establish that baseline, and then to track that baseline going forward.
Part of the -- and I keep referring to them the monitoring evaluation framework because it really is a key document that outlines and is fundamental to the work that we're going to be doing. But included in that document is a continuous improvement plan that will help us identify and measure that approach going forward for those programs and services. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Madam Chair. That's all for me. I really appreciate those comments and commitments.
Next, I have Member for Frame Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Really appreciate it. My first question -- and forgive me if I'm wrong about this, but I'm not sure that we've been provided with the monitoring and evaluation framework, and I know that Mr. -- sorry, the deputy minister offered to provide a plain language summary. But would we be able to get a commitment simply to just provide a copy of the framework? Thanks.
Minister of Executive and Indigenous Affairs.
The framework was shared with all MLAs on January 31st. Thank you.
Thank you. Member for Frame Lake.
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, and thank you for the reminder. I'll make sure to scan my email inbox. We get so many sometimes, it's easy to forget whether we received something or not.
So, you know, just going on the thread that I was pulling on over the past couple days with the health Minister, you know, one of our top priorities is supporting primary care reform, and certainly there's all sorts of evidence for why this is a worthwhile initiative. And something that I would point out is that we may -- and one of the reasons I was pushing us to kind of define the issue and to better understand what we mean by providing equitable access to health care is that we may, in fact, need to shift resources further into primary care and increase resources that they are -- they're using in the system.
So I'm just wondering can -- you know, when we look at this unit, I think it's been seen as being a unit that's there to kind of reduce fiscal -- reduce spending, improve fiscal health, but would just note that system sustainability involves workplace morale, it involves sustainability in terms of being able to attract and retain workers and, indeed, to achieve our goal of reforming and improving primary care access. So I was just hoping that the Minister or his staff could comment on that and how we're going to be careful that we're not throwing out the primary care baby with the fiscal sustainability bath water. Thank you.
Minister of Executive and Indigenous Affairs.
Thank you. And so the primary health care reform is the responsibility of health and social services. The department, they are leading that work, and we are here to support that work. We're all here to support each other. And so the work that is being done by this unit can inform that work.
I'll note that, you know, there -- I think there might be a perception, and I hope it's not coming from me because I've never said this, but the idea of this unit is to not just find what we can cut and save some money. It is to make the system sustainable. As the Member mentioned in his latter comments about the things that the system -- that this unit should be contributing to, that's what the unit is contributing to. It's for the healthcare system sustainability at large not just the financial sustainability. So it's also to allow decision makers to have eyes on what's going on in the system. As a Minister for five years now, it's been difficult for me to get a grip on what's going on with the healthcare system because it is so large, there's so many programs, it has grown so rapidly. So, you know, by virtue of having this unit while there is primary health care reform happening, but I -- it's my sense that that's going to give us better eyes on that as well. And so we'll just have a better understanding of what's happening and how to better support -- and as decision makers, as Ministers, how to best support the system going forward. And I'm not sure if Mr. Courtoreille has anything to add so I'll throw it to him as well. Thank you.
Mr. Courtoreille.
Yeah, thank you, Madam Chair. I don't think I have much more to add than that other than just to echo the Premier's comments on all of these mandate priorities that address system reform or some sort of system sustainability topic is really meant to be all the agencies working together and collaborating with one another. So at some point in time, I suspect we might be asked to participate in this conversation but today, we have not been part of the primary health care reform conversation. Thanks.
Member for Frame Lake.
Okay, thank you, Madam Chair. That's all my questions for now on this section. Thanks.
Okay. Member for the Sahtu.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I'm in support of this unit and the objectives or the goals set by this unit and, ultimately, it's to make our health care more efficient, more modern in the process. So I look forward to the -- my continued support and the updates provided by the Minister. Mahsi.
Minister of Executive and Indigenous Affairs, would you like to respond?
Thank you. I appreciate the Member's support, and I look forward to continuing to update committee as the work progresses. Thank you.
Thank you. No further questions. I see no further questions, please turn to page 141.
Executive and Indigenous Affairs, healthcare system sustainability, operations expenditure summary, 2025-2026 Main Estimates, $2,096,000. Does the committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you. Moving on to Indigenous and intergovernmental relations on page 143 with information items on page 146. Are there any questions? Member for Great Slave.
(audio).
Minister Executive and Indigenous Affairs.
Thank you. With your indulgence, I would like to swap out my witnesses for this section.
Sergeant-at-Arms, please exchange witnesses.
Thank you. Now I'll go to Member for Great Slave.
Thank you.
Sorry, Minister, would you introduce your witness.
Thank you. With me, I have Tram Do, the director of corporate services. Thank you.
Thank you. Now I have the Member for Great Slave.
Thank you, Madam Chair. So there are, according to EIA's business plan on page 19 of their business plan, three legislative initiatives currently underway with the IGC technical working groups with two to three more still to be initiated. And my apologies if this isn't the correct section to ask about this, but I think it might be. So I was just curious if the amount of that work is sufficiently resourced and what the timelines are looking like for these technical working groups within the life of this Assembly. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you. Minister of Executive and Indigenous Affairs.
