Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to detail a small selection of the contributions to the public service made by someone who, until quite recently, was a Yellowknife South resident.
Mr. Steven Loutitt is a proud Metis originally from Fort Smith and who has been working for the public service, in some form or another, for over 37 years in various roles to support program delivery for people of the Northwest Territories.
Mr. Speaker, Mr. Loutitt loves session. He revels in the thrill and in the excitement it creates, and he had timed his retirement in a way to ensure he would support his team at infrastructure through session. Tomorrow is his official retirement. He is very sad that today is our last day.
Mr. Loutitt began his public service career with the city, then with Transport Canada, and then when the federal government devolved the airport responsibility to the GNWT, he became a GNWT public servant way back in 1995. He was a firefighter, ultimately fire chief, and if you have the opportunity I would highly recommend asking Mr. Loutitt what it was like to be the officer-in-charge when a missile fell off of a CF18 onto the Yellowknife golf course and also what it was like to be the officer-in-charge when there was an aborted landing two days later.
Fun fact, Mr. Speaker, Mr. Loutitt's father was presented with the Fire Services Exemplary Service Medal in June of 1988. Mr. Steven Loutitt was presented with the very same honour by the Governor General of Canada in February of 2009.
Mr. Loutitt eventually became the YZF airport manager, later the director of compliance and licensing, and before taking on the role of ADM for regional operations and eventually assuming his current position as the deputy minister of infrastructure in 2020.
Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank Mr. Loutitt for his work that is not always publicly visible. It is the personal attention that he pays to his team. The size of the team for whom he was responsible has obviously grown significantly over the last 37 years of his career. But his care and his attention for every member has never wavered. I'd like to give a brief example, Mr. Speaker.
The Department of Infrastructure had lost a member of our team not long ago. It was a difficult loss for many. And very shortly after that, Mr. Loutitt and I were on duty travel to one of our regional communities. He asked if I would mind if he stepped away to spend time with some of the members of his team. He thought there were some who might have a particular connection to the event. These were not his direct reports, not even close. They were not staff that I believe he knew very well, but Mr. Loutitt had an instinct that they needed extra support. And he was right. Not only did he take time out of the day, he then arranged extra time and made additional effort to ensure supports were able over the coming days for this member of the team and for others. And it's come back to us, Mr. Speaker, that this was extremely meaningful for those involved.
It might seem like a small thing but, Mr. Speaker, I know you know the constant barrage of demands on a deputy minister on any given day can be immense. There are always ongoing expectations to keep large projects moving, find solutions, and endless series of crisis, and a few demands from Ministers. And, yet, Mr. Speaker, throughout my year in this role, never once has Mr. Loutitt lost sight of the fact that it is the people around him who should be receiving his unwavering attention. He always knows what's going on throughout the entire huge diverse Department of Infrastructure, but he has also shown me that sometimes the most confident thing that a leader can do is to empower his team to shine.
Mr. Speaker, I want to issue and give my thanks, my congratulations to Mr. Loutitt on the eve of his retirement, and on his resumption of full-time duties as a proud father to Drew, Ellie, and Emmy. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Well done, Member from Yellowknife South. Members' statements. Member from Frame Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to request unanimous consent that we move item number 6, recognition of visitors in the gallery, up to item number 4, please. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, we have some very special guests in the gallery today. I dare say this may be the first time we've recognized a dog in the Assembly, but we have therapy dog Kit and her handler Joanne Cecchetto today in the chamber and several officials visiting from the St. John Ambulance Priory Headquarters led by CEO Brent Fowler; Samantha Rodick, director of community services; Lori Anderson, chancellor of St. John Ambulance Priory of Canada; and, Patricia Johnson, regional chair of Manitoba and Northwest Territories council. I'd like to extend a heartfelt welcome to these guests. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Yeah, thank you, Mr. Speaker. I'd like to recognize Canadian Space Agency astronaut Colonel Jeremy Hansen; Annie Belanger from Canadian Space Agency; Anne Burrow and Dave Sharpe from Bear Claw Strategy. Also, Ted Tsetta, the former chief of YKDFN; Liza Peiper-Charlo, band councillor from YKDFN. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member from Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. First of all, I want to -- oddly enough, I'll do it this way: I want to acknowledge the great statement by the Member for Yellowknife South about our good friend Steve Loutitt. She said much of what I would have liked to have said but it is recognition, so I'll say this to Mr. Steve Loutitt, our retiring DM of infrastructure. I want to thank him for his many years of service, and I used to call him -- sorry, I used to call him director Loutitt when he was a manager, and then guess what, he got appointed to director. Then I used to call him assistant deputy minister accidently, and then he got bumped up. Then I called him deputy minister, and then he got bumped again. And I've been calling him Commissioner lately, so you never know. I might be the lucky rabbit's foot. But the only fault I'll finish I find with Mr. Loutitt is, and I'm darn well going to say this, Dallas is a terrible team. Go Green Bay.
Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member from Inuvik Twin Lakes.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to recognize a page from Inuvik Twin Lakes, Katalena Ciboci-Raymond who is here with us this week. And I'd like to recognize my deputy minister who is here in the capacity as part of the St. John Ambulance and her dog Kit. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member from Inuvik Twin Lakes. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member from Range Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too would like to recognize former chief Ted Tsetta and David Sharpe and Ian Bailey. It's nice to see you here today. They're all friends of mine from my time working with YKDFN. I'd also like to recognize a very special person. Fortunately for all of you, the reason I'm here today, so you can blame him, my father Terry Testart. Thanks for being here, Dad.
Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member from Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to recognize William Gagnon who is the executive director of the NWT Medical Association who is here with us today. And also thank two of our pages who are Yellowknife North constituents. We have Ace Wickens and Solomon Young, and they're both students at William Mac School. So thanks to all the pages as well for your help this week.
Thank you, Member from Yellowknife North. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member from Inuvik Boot Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, first I'd like to recognize two hardworking pages from the Inuvik Boot Lake riding, Ms. Caitlyn Wright and Mr. Wilhem Jellema who have been here working all this week, and I'd like to thank them for their hard work. And I'd also like to recognize Mr. Loutitt. I had an opportunity to work with Mr. Loutitt a little in a previous life, and maybe we never always saw eye to eye but certainly always had great respect and appreciated all the hard work he had done on behalf of GNWT. And to echo my friend from Yellowknife Centre, Mr. Loutitt, go Packers.
Thank you, Member from Inuvik Boot Lake. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member from the Sahtu.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too would like to recognize deputy minister Steve Loutitt and all the wonderful work and support he has given the department, particular to the Mackenzie Valley Highway and the other projects. And additionally, I would also like to recognize, on our last day of the session, the hardworking staff of the Assembly and our interpreters. I hope you enjoy the break, spring. Mahsi.
Thank you, Member from the Sahtu. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member from Monfwi.
Masi, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, [no translation available] masi.
Thank you, Member from Monfwi. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member from Great Slave.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I too would like to recognize my constituent William Gagnon who is back from his international travels, and welcome back to the Assembly. And I too would like to recognize Mr. Steve Loutitt who I did not have the pleasure of working with in my time in the public service but was very much far and away the most welcoming deputy minister since I took on this role, and I believe we have become fast friends and I look forward to having a beer with him tomorrow night. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member from Great Slave. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member from Mackenzie Delta.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would also like to recognize Mr. Terry Testart, a resident of Fort McPherson and senior administrative officer for the hamlet of Fort McPherson. I worked with Terry several years ago. And I wanted to welcome Terry. And also to Mr. Loutitt for his many years of service and to the interpreters for their dedicated service while we are conducting our work here. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member from the Mackenzie Delta. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member for Yellowknife South.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On a busy day like today, I'm afraid I might be missing Yellowknife South residents who I can't see from behind me. Fortunately, Mr. Speaker, we are a family friendly neighbourhood and I am happy to say we have two youth here that I will recognize from Yellowknife South. Aima Tabbaa and Olivia Costache, thank you for helping us as pages here in the House.
Thank you, Member from Yellowknife South. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member from Kam Lake.
Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. Terry's going to feel very special today because we're all fighting over him, but I'd like to say a warm welcome to my constituent, and we might need some proof of residency now to Mr. Terry Testart. Mr. Speaker, I'd also like to acknowledge Steve Loutitt in the House today. I started my journey with the GNWT as an intern for the Department of Transportation, spent many a days on the tarmac with Mr. Loutitt, including the year where a missile hit the golf course. What a time to start in communications. But very much my best memories of him were certainly at the hockey arena watching our children grow into goalies together. Thank you.
Thank you, Member from Kam Lake. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my beautiful darling wife Elina Edjericon and children for putting up with me while she takes care of the homestead. Also I wanted to recognize my constituents in Dettah, N'dilo, Lutselk'e, and Fort Resolution. Also I want to recognize my constituent assistant Taylor Pagotto and Warren Delorme for all their hard work. And I want to thank my colleagues and ledge staff and cooks and technical people. And finally, I want to recognize Maro Rose Sundberg, Jonas Lafferty, Dennis Drygeese, and the interpreters. Without you, this would never be possible. I want to say mahsi. And finally, Steve Loutitt and Terry Testart, I want to recognize you and everybody else in the House. Mahsi.
Thank you, Member from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. I apologize that I gave him a second shot, but he had a long list. So recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member from Thebacha.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I too would like to recognize my cousin Steve Loutitt and thank him for his many years of service in the NWT. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member from Thebacha. Recognition of visitors in the gallery. Member from Hay River North.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to take a minute to recognize some people who have been here with us for the past six weeks while I've been in the House. All of the interpreters who do the good work of letting the people of the territory know what we're up to. We were lucky enough to be invited to a potluck that they put on today, and it was a wonderful experience. And, of course, I also want to recognize Troy Aikman of the Department of Infrastructure, Mr. Steve Loutitt, one of the -- you know, the hardest working people that I've ever met, one of the most positive. He's a great member of our team and, you know, very, very supportive of his team. And that's really, you know, what we need in this territory and in this government, is those kinds of folks and individuals, and we are indebted to him for his 37 years of service. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member from Yellowknife North. Recognition of visitors in the gallery.
I guess it's my turn to recognize deputy minister Mr. Loutitt. Great taste in football players. Oh what a team. You know those Green Bay Packers fans, well, you know, they don't have the taste that you do. So I welcome you in your retirement. I know we will see some posts of your new abode with the Dallas Stars out there, so we all have faith. As well, I'd like to recognize Mr. Testart. I recognize Mr. Terry Testart because he was the first person I got to work with when I became working for the Government of the Northwest Territories when he was in Behchoko. So that doesn't mean he's aged at all; I did. He's looked as young as he was before so welcome here. As well, I'd like to recognize Mary Jane Cazon, our interpreter that does Dene Zhatie, as well as the -- as the Premier said, the interpreters, they had our first potluck and we got to share it with them today at lunch time. So thank you very much for that.
If we've missed anyone in the gallery today, welcome to your chambers. I greatly appreciate the fact that you allow us to represent the people of the Northwest Territories even though it's for a short period of time. I hope you are enjoying the proceedings. It's always nice to see people in the gallery. With that being said, we'll take a five-minute adjournment, please.
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Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker,
WHEREAS the affirmative action policy was established in the late 1980's;
AND WHEREAS the affirmative action policy was intended to support northern employment by creating and strengthening opportunities for northern Indigenous people;
AND WHEREAS the affirmative action policy was also intended to support and recognize long-term commitments of non-Indigenous peoples;
AND WHEREAS the affirmative action policy was intended to support women and persons with disabilities;
AND WHEREAS the affirmative action policy is a policy and requires periodic evaluation and updating from time to time;
AND WHEREAS the Indigenous employment policy has had a number of concerns highlighted by committees of this Assembly;
AND WHEREAS the Indigenous employment policy has received enormous negative feedback from the public;
AND WHEREAS the Indigenous employment policy has not been received by the public in a positive way;
AND WHEREAS, more than one committee has requested that the government not proceed with the Indigenous employment policy or, at the very least, to pause this policy until a clear consensus of Members has been reached;
NOW THEREFORE I MOVE, seconded by the Member for Range Lake, that this Legislative Assembly calls upon the Government of the Northwest Territories to immediately halt any further advancement and implementation of the new Indigenous employment policy, also known as the IEP, and return to using the affirmative action policy without delay as the primary hiring guidelines of the Government of the Northwest Territories;
AND FURTHER, that the Minister of Finance engage with the Standing Committee on Government Operations, prior to any further changes to the Government of the Northwest Territories' hiring policy, to discuss and seek guidance that can improve the affirmative action policy which ultimately strengthens the Government of the Northwest Territories' hiring practices with the intent that supports northern Indigenous, long-term Northerners, women, persons with disabilities, as well as other marginalized communities;
AND FURTHERMORE, that the Government of the Northwest Territories provide a response to this motion within 120 days.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member from Yellowknife Centre. The motion is in order. To the motion. Member from Yellowknife Centre.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there's been a lot of talk about this since it's been, in my humble opinion, rammed through. This policy change is quite frustrating. Many committees have already spoken against this and want it to be slowed down. Recently, one of the committees -- although I won't speak to it because it was an in-camera and confidential meeting, but I'll say it received a lot of feedback, and it was overwhelmingly concerned in the manner of the change and wanted the territorial's hiring policy stay as the affirmative action policy which we've seen for over 35 years.
Mr. Speaker, furthermore, the importance of it is no policy should go without review. I definitely believe in that. And there were changes, and I'd like to highlight one for the public's benefit to appreciate some of the changes that could have happened and should have happened and need part of the periodic details of what we're talking about.
So by way of example, Mr. Speaker, there is a -- within the current policy, which ends, according to the Minister and the government on April 1, if you were born in the Northwest Territories, you would be considered -- if you are non-Indigenous that is, and you would be considered a P2. And if you left the day after you were born here, you could come back any time of our lifetime and be treated as a P2. And for the public, that's priority number 2. But, again, most people will know what this means.
That said, Mr. Speaker, I think that misses the intent of what the policy was about. And it was about inspiring and finding ways to recognize the importance of northern people who have committed.
So first and foremost, no one I spoke to had any issues with Indigenous people from the Northwest Territories being treated as priority 1. As a matter of fact, the empowerment opportunity is absolutely critical to grow that. But there's elements that find the frustration where Northerners feel betrayed by this process. I have heard from people from the top of the North to the south of the North that there are ways we could have tweaked the current policy in a progressive way. I realize that there are certain overlapping Indigenous relationships that needed to be recognized. I too think that that's important.
What is problematic with the policy is I don't believe it's ever been used in the fullness of how it should have been used. That said, there are tweaks that could have been considered, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we need to understand the problems. The government will say well, we don't have enough Indigenous employment and it's not reaching the ratio of 50 percent of the North. That may be statistically true.
Now, what my experience has been around these types of problems is it always start with what do you want me to tell you on the statistics and we'll find a way to tell you the story through the numbers. In other words, we could have found any answer we really wanted to given the direction and the position. Also, Mr. Speaker, at the same time is we're not recognizing key fundamental foundational problems with the affirmative action program. It is a process of saving and -- saving and recognizing problems. So what am I saying?
Well, we have low education opportunities. We have high expectation of credentials. We have to find a gateway to create opportunities. We have communities where graduation rates are below 50 percent. That is the true critical problem of what's happening here. Creating a new IEP program, Mr. Speaker, isn't solving these problems, Mr. Speaker. It's just a fundamental shell game of trying to say, statistically, we need to raise these up. Mr. Speaker, when people want to work for the Northwest Territories and they are Indigenous, they are supported. And I support that. And I think that we have programs through -- and we certainly have exemptions through the Premier and Cabinet where we could do direct appointments. So if we need to improve the statistics, I'm certainly in favour of that. But opening -- kicking the door open wide and saying anyone from Canada, from whether it's Nova Scotia all the way to BC, is now hit a priority on this new policy is quite frustrating. As a matter of fact, again, it feels is the GNWT trying to save the national problem? Give it a local result? I'm not sure.
At the same time, Mr. Speaker, the government will tell you well, you know, it's always had legal issues. Well, I think there's always legal issues with a lot of policies. This one in particular, I'm not confident it's there. I'm not aware if it's ever been publicly challenged. In other words, tested in court, received any judicial guidance saying that.
Now, every Minister will say somebody in many the background says there's questions about it. Well, that may be true. There's question about our BIP. There's always questions about the BIP. And, you know what? Fundamentally, Northerners have grown to appreciate that and recognize they have limits, and sometimes it doesn't work out in their favour. That said, they do recognize how important some of these little nuggets of being a Northerner are represented and respected.
Mr. Speaker, the affirmative action program has been bought in for a generation or more -- if not We're getting close to two generations -- who have understood the importance of the value of that particular program. And to throw it out, again, feels likes a frustration.
Now, let's talk about other areas of aspects, Mr. Speaker, that are actually are foundational to this issue. So I've talked to mining companies, and they're frustrated too. They're hearing, wow, we have to hire more Indigenous people, which is fantastic. They go so if the GNWT gets to change its policy, how does it affect their socioeconomic agreements? You know, they're like, well, so if it's not good for the GNWT, is it good for us? Where is this fairness? Mr. Speaker, it's about fair application and reasonable application that respect Northerners' commitments.
The other aspect is, Mr. Speaker, not everyone wants to work for the Government of the Northwest Territories. I know there are a lot of people in various communities that don't want to work for the GNWT. And believe it or not -- I know this is hard to believe -- but the GNWT has long left the title or honour or pillar of opportunity as the employer of choice. It is no longer that. Yes, some people have enjoyed a great career here. Some have had great advancement. Some have, you know, had these dynamic experiences that all they do is talk about, you know, it's great going to work every day. I'm happy for them. But not everyone wants to work for the government. We have a federal government that's constantly competing for Indigenous people. We have Indigenous governments constantly competing for them. So it makes only perfect sense -- wait a minute, here's statistics again -- that Indigenous people are being hired in their community government organizations, which I think is incredible, but yet the GNWT is not getting those people applying there. So I think it's one of these narratives that you have to drill down and ask, what question are we really asking? Or do we already have the answer, and we're just trying to find the facts through the back door of statistics? I don't know.
Mr. Speaker, broader, now I'm going to speak, you have communities. And I've been to, like, every community of the North, except for Sachs. But I've been to every community of the North. And I can tell you jobs are tough in a small community. It's tough to find them. It's tough to find employment. And we don't do enough to inspire and create creative opportunities to get that. So if employment is the issue, why don't we have a jobs mandate, a war time mandate to say we're going to put employment and we're going to raise education standards and we're going to throw everything at these opportunities we can get. So back to where's the fundamental problem? We'll call these the cornerstones of this issue which is education and opportunities. And that's really what we're having here, is this -- and that's what was trying to identify new ways to advance.
Mr. Speaker, I have more to say, and like most people know, I could probably go on for quite a while, but this is a very serious topic and it's very frustrating. And I've had people from all ranges of support so don't think it's just the P2 candidates that are mad. It's also Indigenous people that I've spoken to who feel that their recognition and commitment Northerners have made has been lost. And it's unfortunate that the way that these conversations get talked about, they could be misconstrued in other ways. And it's very frustrating, and it's very difficult.
I have heard from many GNWT employees who are afraid to comment because they're GNWT employees. Their democratic right to communicate to their elected officials, either written and even in sometimes verbal, are very frustrating for them because they don't feel that their voices could be heard. And so we may have received an enormous overwhelming amount of feedback at committee at the call of committee. But I wish we could have this public so the government could have that. I wish government employees could feel safe to say, you know what, I'm upset or frustrated by this. But we can't in this environment. And I wouldn't want anything else be betrayed -- portrayed -- sorry, just to be clear, portrayed, that people just feel left out by this government.
Mr. Speaker, I will be requesting a recorded vote when we do come to that particular time. And I think what's key to me here is the fact that this government can reverse this, pause it. I've asked them to halt it through the motion. I thank the seconder who's supported the motion to get it on the floor. I encourage people to continue to open their mind and see the opportunity that's being walked away from and respect people who have committed their lives, their families to the North, who invest in the North, who want this to be part of their future and by not -- by walking away from them, it's that empty feeling that your government is walking away from you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member from Range Lake -- or sorry, Yellowknife Centre. Member from Range Lake.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, in our sister territory Yukon, Yukoners are only officially known as Sourdoughs until they have survived a full winter. Here in the Northwest Territories it's a bit more complicated. You have to live half your life and then you become a P2. This has been -- for 30 years, this has been a cultural touchstone of the Northwest Territories, somewhat absurdly as well because there's plenty of people who don't work for government and, of course, plenty of people who do work for government who don't occupy that status but enjoy their careers anyway. But no matter what, that idea of, like, when you officially graduate and become, you know, a true blue Northerner, a true frozen Northerner, whatever we want to call it, so the idea to just take this away with the stroke of a pen after 30 years of this being, again, part of our culture, part of our workforce, part of our set of benefits that when Northerners think of themselves and think of the advantages they receive, this is one of them. SFA is another one. BIP is another one. The northern tax deduction. These are things that are cherished and people look to them as a competitive advantage to why we're here and why we stay here. Because it's hard, and it's getting harder.
Mr. Speaker, for 30 years, we've had a failed Indigenous hiring policy. That is not under debate. It hasn't been working. We have -- I think the last public service report, it had the worst -- the worst statistics we've ever seen. This is a problem that needs to be solved. But in trying to solve it when departmental staff spoke to the Standing Committee Committee on Government Operations just earlier this week, they acknowledged that the gaps that exist within this new policy, the Indigenous employment policy, have been creating brand new gaps that the old policy covered. And there's no plan yet to fill them.
The language that was used at the presentation was taking away affirmative action. And I don't know if that was intentional, Mr. Speaker, but I knew that -- do know that that is how so many Northerners feel, that something is being taken away. And the Minister disagrees that this is a benefit. I think Northerners would disagree. And they do feel like something's been taken away.
In an effort to fill the gaps and improve Indigenous hiring, we are creating new ones. People -- persons with disabilities, visible other minority populations are not being covered by the new policy, and that was one of the first messages I got from the public. And I've had many, Mr. Speaker. And it was someone who works for the government who has -- who is differently abled and was furious that this change was made without any consultation and implored MLAs to stand together and reverse the changes.
Mr. Speaker, advocacy groups, to my knowledge, were not consulted on these changes. The people who were consulted on these changes were given a broad set of a problem statement and ways it could be solved but not an actual definition of policy. The drive-by consultations, as my friend has said, in the past of -- of Yellowknife Centre -- were insufficient, insensitive, and wholly inadequate. Because that's what we heard, and that's what we heard from our partner Indigenous governments in particular. We're not making this stuff up, Mr. Speaker. There's a difference between a big P policy of government that governors everything we do here -- or everything -- sorry, not here, but everything we do in the public service and a framework. So the fact that a diversity -- a DEI framework is being pitched as a solution to these problems for the people who are left behind, a lot of those folks are not buying it because it's not -- it doesn't have the security that a big policy of government has. Hiring was iron clad. It followed these rules: P1, P2, P3. That was it. You couldn't get around it on paper. And we'll get into that, how have -- people have gotten around it. Because like I said, this has not been working.
Mr. Speaker, Northerners deserve to be put first by their government. They deserve priority access to jobs that allowed them to make decision for their territory and serve their communities. At a recent constituency meeting in the Range Lake riding, this was the number one topic of concern, and it was around P2s. And look, there are a lot of different opinions around this and around the P2 status, where it came from, is it constitutional, is it racist. But for members of our community, our northern community, we're all Northerners and we're all in this together. And no one there who was concerned about the loss of P2s and felt like it was an erosion of their identity as a Northerner said we don't want P1s. Everyone's okay with supporting each other and putting Indigenous people first because that's what our policies should do. But to take away P2 with nothing to replace it, that's something that has them concerned.
Mr. Speaker, in the Standing Committee of Government Operations, public engagement, they received 50 respondents. Normally, when we engage the public, if we get a dozen letters that's pretty good. And usually they're being written in by advocacy groups and stakeholders and people with a vested interest in communicating with committee. This case, it was driven by citizens, Northerners. Only one of those pieces of correspondence was supportive of these changes.
Mr. Speaker, the biggest issue was the elimination of P1s, followed by the elimination of P2s, and there was no support for prioritizing southern Indigenous people over Northerners. It's rare we get so much public commentary on matters before this House. So I want to share some of those stories today.
Before we began sitting, Mr. Speaker, I was approached by someone who's had 25 years in the public service. Never raised a complaint, never been to the union, never been to an MLA, completely content with working with for the public service, a career that made him feel proud and valued and even though it's challenging at some times, it was something that got him out of bed and motivated to do every day. When this policy was announced and there was no sense that it was coming, this was shocking to this individual, Mr. Speaker. They feel like they are no longer valued and they're being pushed out of the North. Now, I know that's not the intent of the policy. Let's be very clear. But we're not talking about what's written on the page. We're talking about the message it sends to our people and the message it sends to public citizens.
Mr. Speaker, I have a lengthier quote from a former GNWT employee who worked for the public service for 35 years. They were a manager when they left the GNWT for a secondment to an Indigenous government and at the end of the two years, this person resigned from the GNWT rather than go back. This individual says that they left the GNWT for many reasons. One was hiring and promoting practices in their department.
Quote: As a GNWT manager for three years, I had no issues with external competition. I was always reminded by my human resources representative assisting me with the competition that I was required to hire a priority 1 Indigenous person if they successfully passed the competition process. It was drilled into me. So I assumed that it was drilled into other hiring managers. The problems that I saw personally were the hiring and promotional activities that happened within departments when there was no human resources representative oversight. People who had the right attitude were selected for transfer assignments into positions for the appropriate time to allow for these persons to gain enough experience to allow them to, air quotes, "apply" on the job. There was a perception within at least my department that First Nations people made excellent support as frontline workers but were not suitable for promotion. Since my resignation, I have met with a lot of other former GNWT employees of First Nations descent, and this has been a running theme.
Mr. Speaker, this story, this work experience, is not one of a failed -- of people failing to follow the policy. It's one of personal workplace biases failing to promote and support Indigenous people through career advancement. That is a much deeper problem, and I know the government is working to fix that through other mechanisms. But this policy was not broken. This policy was just not being followed well enough.
Mr. Speaker, more quotes from -- or more feedback from the public: As the mother of a non-Indigenous child, I do not believe this policy's a very good idea. We have stayed here in the North because of the opportunities for people who have lived here for most or all of their lives. With this new policy, there is no advantage to living or going to school in the North. People who have lived here should have the first opportunity over anyone who does not live in the North, no matter if they are Indigenous or not.
Mr. Speaker, another: I wholeheartedly support priority staffing for Indigenous staff and recognize that change is needed. But the other folks already living in the North having equal footing as a southern candidate is not the right approach in employee retention, succession planning, continuity of services, and fiscal prudence in our current environment.
Quote: This new proposed hiring policy seems like you're trying to achieve an Indigenous hiring quota without a plan to support northern people.
Quote: At a time of such economic uncertainty, why is the GNWT creating opportunities for people who aren't even NWT residents? This new proposed hiring policy seems like you're playing politics with my future to make a more positive government report.
Quote: We have stayed here in the North because of the opportunities for people who have lived here most their lives. With this new policy, there's no advantage to living or going to school in the North.
Mr. Speaker, quote: If the GNWT is committed to human rights, equity, inclusion, economic stability and workplace diversity, it should be expanding and strengthening protections for persons with disabilities rather than rolling them back.
Finally, Mr. Speaker, quote: The morale of your frontline providers has never been so low and many of us feel insulted and disgusted by this new directive. End quote.
What is especially frustrating about this, Mr. Speaker, is how it came through -- how this process came there. My friend from Yellowknife Centre mentioned that this -- he used the word rammed through. And I would tend to agree. This was pushed through a process with little concern for the role of Members of two standing committees, both as representatives of their constituents and active committee Members who play on oversight role to government. Twice the Standing Committee on Government Operations asked for the Minister to pause changes to affirmative action and continue working with committee. Twice the Standing Committee on Accountability and Oversight asked the Minister to pause changes to the affirmative action policy and continue working with committee. Seven members took a major step of issuing a public letter to the Premier asking for the policy to be reversed and sent back to committee, the same thing this motion calls for. It was only after all of these actions and a public flogging in the media that the Minister decided to compromise the policy and bring back northern Indigenous hiring in a more limited capacity.
Committees must be respected if this form of government that we have is going to work, Mr. Speaker. Ministers should be listening carefully to the concerns of committees and not ignoring them. That is not consensus government. How this matter has been handled sets a bad precedent for the role of committees in the oversight of major policy decisions going forward, Mr. Speaker. Changes to significant policies are also -- this changes significant policy that, again, has so many people upset. It's not part of the priorities of the Assembly. It's not part of the mandate of the GNWT. And it's not present in the Minister's mandate letter. Certainly I did not run to represent my constituents in this chamber on that promise. And I don't recall anyone else in this chamber saying they pledged to do that on the campaign trail.
So why are we here, Mr. Speaker? Why have we spent so much time and energy on a policy that does little to improve the hiring of Indigenous people and is hugely frustrating to Northerners. No matter the Minister's intention, Mr. Speaker, the results are clear to Northerners: You aren't valued, you aren't wanted, and you aren't a priority to this government.
I didn't think this needed to be said but as this government continues to make decisions that erode the advantages our people have enjoyed for 30 years or more, let me be clear: Every decision we make in this chamber should have one goal - Northerners first. We are sent here to solve problems, not to create them. By leaving so many gaps behind and non-Indigenous Northerners behind, we are actively adding to the challenges Northerners face every day in our communities. Working people deserve better, especially those in our public service and those aspiring to join it.
If you value -- so if you value the work of committees, then you must support this motion. If you value accountability, then you must support this motion. If you value the concerns of dozens of working people who contacted their MLAs to reject these policy changes, then you must support this motion. If you value consensus government and working together and listening to one another, you must support this motion. And if you want to put Northerners first where they belong, you must support this motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member from Range Lake. To the motion. Member from Monfwi.
Masi, Mr. Speaker. No disrespect, I sympathize with my colleague and I hear the concerns that have been raised. I believe this Indigenous employment policy will help Indigenous people in the NWT. The Minister has said 56 percent of -- 56 percent of employees currently -- currently categorized as P2 work in Yellowknife. Mr. Speaker, what I take from this is that most P2s live in the city or larger regional centre. Their family members will always have a job to apply for and access to good education. I have heard numerous times from former teachers in Tlicho region that once their children were old enough to start elementary school, they moved to Yellowknife for better options. However, Indigenous people, Indigenous young people, and families in small communities, do not have these options. We lack a lot of services in small communities. Some of our young people feel hopeless. Drugs are getting in, and the future generations is going to face addictions. I want change. I want to help solve these problems. I support a policy that is aimed at recruiting Indigenous employees from within present boundaries of the territory. So for this reason, I will not support this motion. Masi, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member from Monfwi. To the motion. Member from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I too do have a problem with the GNWT affirmative action policy. It was created back when we were part of Nunavut and at the time it was done in a way that it catered to everybody that's working here in the Northwest Territories - P1, P2, P3. But my concern, Mr. Speaker, is that when this announcement came out when Cabinet made a decision, I was surprised to hear it as well that decision came from Cabinet. I got calls from my leaders, my community members, and members from different ridings of the Northwest Territories expressing their concerns about how could this be. When this announcement came out, they were going to say that aboriginal hires are going to be from people from southern Canada. So in other words, if the aboriginal person that has a degree in education come into Fort Resolution to fill a job in recreation, they get first priority. And our guy in the community who's been born and raised here would be left out for applying on that job. So I am concerned with that. But then when they went back and they made changes saying oh jeez, now we're going to change it. It's going to be that aboriginal people are going to be first hire and then southern people after that. I don't support this motion. I mean, I -- I don't support the idea of bringing forward an aboriginal policy. There are a lot of good people that I spoke to that created the GNWT affirmative action policy. And it's been in place for over 30 years. It wasn't perfect. There were problems, and I agree with that. There should have been an oversight on that. I know a lot of good people applied on jobs, and they were missed out on jobs because there was just -- just the way it was at the time where there were problems identified. And I've raised this on an issue.
In the 19th Assembly, I was on a committee that went up and down the Valley. My colleague from Monfwi was part of that committee. Cabinet Minister across the road there was on that committee. And we heard from our people in the Northwest Territories that to increase the aboriginal numbers in the GNWT, we have to take a look at these policies. So now this motion is here today. I keep thinking about it because I got calls from members -- I can paint an old car, even though it's broken down, everything, paint it, I'm going to try to sell it. It's still an old car. This policy, I'm deeply concerned. If we can't implement the affirmative action policy after 30 years and fix the problems, then what do you think we're going to do with this policy? Is it going to be any better? I don't think so. It's going to be another 30 years before we finally catch up, figure what the problems are.
I wish we had more time to talk about this, but Cabinet made a decision. There was no consultation or accommodation with Indigenous governments throughout the Northwest Territories or groups throughout the Northwest Territories. They have a right to be heard. So this policy that the Minister of Finance announced, I can't support that policy. My chiefs were never consulted. The leaders of the Northwest Territories were never consulted. Cabinet brought this forward in the 19th Assembly as well. It didn't go anywhere. So here today I support this motion. We could fix it but let's do it right.
Right now, I come here to work for my people and my region, the communities throughout the Northwest Territories, and it seems like we have no voice because Cabinet continues to make decisions on the best interests of the people in the Northwest Territories with no consultation or accommodation. And do you think this policy now it's going to forward, aboriginal policy? There's going to be problems with it. Why were we sitting at a committee, go up and down the Valley to listen to people, and then we -- this policy comes out. Then what happens to all the hard work we did? It's out the door.
I'm not going to tell how my colleagues to vote on this one here, but I'm going to ask them to vote with your heart because at the end of the day I'm worried about my grandchildren and their other grandchildrens. So if we can't increase the aboriginal hire in government and then we change the policy and call it a different name, the issues are still going to be there. We should have an oversight committee independent on all the hire, on all the appeals. That's what I said in the 19th Assembly when we did the committee on the -- I can't remember what the bill number is, but we did the work. We did a lot of good work that time. So I'm deeply concerned that here we are today talking about this. And if -- if this thing goes ahead, then what does that say to all the work we do in committee? It's all for nothing.
So, Mr. Speaker, I'm going to support this motion on behalf of my constituents who have issues still trying to find jobs in government. And it's time that we start listening to the people here in the Northwest Territories and take their voices and their issues and their concerns when we make decisions in this House. But this decision came without the consent of our own colleagues here; it just happened. We were caught off guard on that. So, Mr. Speaker, I'm going to support this motion for my people in my riding. Thank you.
Thank you, Member from Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. To the motion. Member from Yellowknife North.
Mr. Speaker, I cannot support a return to the old affirmative action policy. But I also cannot give me wholehearted endorsement of the new Indigenous employment policy because I do not believe it can achieve its intended objectives.
Mr. Speaker, if this motion is asking me to take a position on which one do I support, the affirmative action policy or the Indigenous employment policy, I will do neither because I believe we are having the wrong conversation entirely.
The few constituents who did reach out to me about the Indigenous employment policy expressed a common concern, and I think it was summed up well by one constituent who said, what I have not seen or heard is anything that addresses why the existing affirmative action hiring policy failed to improve the representation of Indigenous northerners. Changing the existing policy without addressing the reasons for failure would seem to miss the mark. Northern Indigenous applicants already are priority 1. That policy has been in place for over 30 years and has little to no effect. If the root cause is not addressed, a new policy has little chance of success.
My conclusion, Mr. Speaker, is that too much attention and airtime has been given to debating the government's policy on hiring priorities and not enough attention has been given to the biggest barriers that Indigenous people and other marginalized groups actually face in securing good jobs with the government. I want to talk about how we can support community learning, new approaches to K to 12 education, adult education that meets people where they're at, effective and culturally appropriate mental health supports at every age, innovative approaches to addictions treatment. I want to talk about how even when Indigenous individuals and people from marginalized groups get hired by the GNWT, there are barriers to them moving up in their careers, so many get discouraged and leave the government. I want to talk about more flexible and responsive professional development, mentorship, and mental health supports within GNWT workplaces. I want to talk about ways the GNWT can make its workplaces more welcoming and accommodating to people with disabilities. We should also be talking more about how lived experience and knowledge of Indigenous culture and northern communities is or can be accounted for in evaluating someone's qualifications when they apply for a job.
I also want to acknowledge that many Indigenous residents may not want to work for the GNWT regardless of how much the government wants them. Many are choosing to devote their talents instead to working with their own Indigenous governments or development corporations, and there's no reason that the GNWT should be trying or coming up with strategies to lure Indigenous Northerners away from Indigenous government employers.
I've also heard from constituents about a number of barriers facing northern-born students who want to return home to work, including sometimes specialized jobs are not available, sometimes salaries are not competitive. But, again, these cannot be solved by a priority hiring policy.
Mr. Speaker, this motion offers me a chance to take a position between going back to the affirmative action policy or accepting the Indigenous employment policy, and I choose neither. I want to have entirely different conversations. So for that reason, I will be abstaining on this motion. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member from Yellowknife North. To the motion. Member from Great Slave.
