Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Presently, the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is consulting with Ingraham Trail constituents and they are giving them the option of paying $1.7 million to start up providing fire services and, thereafter, $1.2 million annually. I'm a little confused, and in the resources provided, there is no real explanation of what these numbers are, where they came from, or what they're going to get. Can I just have some explanation of what that $1.7 million and, thereafter, $1.2 million would actually be paying for? Is it buying a fire truck? Is it hiring staff? What is that doing? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Member for Yellowknife North. Minister of Municipal and Community Affairs.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker, and thank you to the Member for his question and his constant advocating for the Ingraham Trail. I want to make it very clear to the territory, as well, that Ingraham Trail is located outside of a municipality. It's a cabin built-up area designated now as a recreational area. It is not designated as a hamlet, charter community, municipality, so extending our services outside of the boundary, I'm not familiar with the agreement that they may have had with the city for the years to come. Now, the city has decided to discontinue that agreement for Ingraham Trail.
I want to also just comment and say that, throughout the territory, we do have built-up areas such as these throughout the territory and are looking at providing services to Ingraham Trail. I am very mindful of the time that it would take from Yellowknife into Ingraham Trail to fight a fire. I take all of that into consideration, as well, but just to get back to the Member's question about the funding that he had requested, the $1.7 million, that was a number that was provided by the City of Yellowknife in, exactly, looking for staff and supports and training and equipment, as well. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I think the unfortunate reality here is that the residents who built their houses and have lived out there for decades with fire services kind of expected them to continue. Now, the city and the GNWT are in some sort of fight over jurisdiction, and it seems the city wants $1.7 million to accommodate. The loss is really to the people, to my constituents, while this kind of fight between governments occurs. However, I never viewed this as a $1.2-million-annual problem. I thought the city was more in the hundred-thousand-dollar range, that we were going to get this to continue. It is one fire a year. Has the GNWT gone back to the city and made a lower offer? Perhaps we could start this engagement and this conversation at a much more reasonable figure.
Yes, the department did go back to the City of Yellowknife to look at the reduced number and what it would cost for fire services. I also want to elaborate, as well, that we did speak to the community of Dettah as they were interested in providing fire services, as well. However, I just really want to emphasize the distance. The distance, this is a cabin built-up area. I know there are residents at Ingraham Trail, but this is not a community. It is not a disagreement between a municipality and the GNWT. It's finding a solution, an adequate solution, and looking at who are we going to train, who is going to actually offer the services. If we do come to an agreement and if the government had said, "Okay. Here we are. We have money to fund the fire services," there is nobody who wants to provide that service right now. Looking at the City of Yellowknife, it's almost putting them under an obligation, saying this service is required. We are continuing those conversations with the City of Yellowknife, but we are in a really different scenario right now. MACA provides funding to the municipalities. We do not provide funding to cabin built-up areas.
This is stemming from the larger long-standing issues where the GNWT and federal government gave a bunch of people fee simple, they started allowing more and more leases, and they created a cabin built-up area, as the Minister refers to it. However, it is not designated as anything, and people on the trail pay taxes every year and receive no services. They live off grid. They do not receive power, water, or sewer, so it has fallen into this area where, the Minister is completely right, it's confusing who exactly is responsible for what.
However, one of the concerns I have is that the department is going out, and they are consulting that this $1.2 million annually would have to be paid completely by the residents of the trail at a rate of $4,000 a year, which would be higher than the average property taxes in Yellowknife. It will be higher than any other community pays in property taxes. It's a figure that has no basis in how any of our built-up areas work, designated or not. Is the Department of Municipal and Community Affairs willing to pay for any part of an agreement that could be reached going forward?
Short answer: no. We are looking at a possibility and an agreement with Ingraham Trail and continue talks with the City of Yellowknife. We are going out there. We are talking to residents. We are making an effort. However, it is a built-up area; this is a cabin area. We have areas throughout the territory that -- what are we going to start doing? Are we going to be going out to each cabin lease, and are we going to be starting to fight those fires? Looking at this, Ingraham Trail, it's very unique. We are conducting conversations with the residents at Ingraham Trail, and we continue speaking with the City of Yellowknife. I appreciate the Member bringing this up, and I hope that we are able to come to a solution.
Thank you, Minister. Final supplementary. Member for Yellowknife North.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. If it was the department's position that at no point was the GNWT going to pay for any of this service, it would have been very helpful to know that in October because it completely changes the whole conversation if they had to approach the city and completely fund this with their own taxes. Currently, residents on the Ingraham Trail, they pay taxes every year. They receive zero services for those taxes. Is the Minister willing to take some of the taxes that residents pay and use that, those taxes that already exist, as a portion of any agreement that could be reached going forward? Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The Department of Municipal and Community Affairs is responsible for the assessment. We are not responsible for collecting the taxes. However, I just note: I want to let the Member know that the conversation that would have happened in October, November, December, this is the result of the conversation and looking at the $1.7 million. That was not identified before Christmas, and now we have numbers. We are trying to work with the residents. We are getting out there. We are doing the assessments and trying to come together to find a solution. This is going to continue, conversation that is happening between my department and the residents of Ingraham Trail and also continuous conversation with the community of Dettah and with the City of Yellowknife, so there is a lot of effort that is being made to come up with a solution for Ingraham Trail. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member for Kam Lake.
