Debates of May 23, 2024 (day 14)

Date
May
23
2024
Session
20th Assembly, 1st Session
Day
14
Speaker
Members Present
Hon. Caitlin Cleveland, Mr. Edjericon, Mr. Hawkins, Hon. Lucy Kuptana, Hon. Jay Macdonald, Hon. Vince McKay, Mr. McNeely, Ms. Morgan, Mr. Morse, Mr. Nerysoo, Ms. Reid, Mr. Rodgers, Hon. Lesa Semmler, Hon. R.J. Simpson, Mr. Testart, Mr. Thompson, Mrs. Weyallon Armstrong, Hon. Caroline Wawzonek, Mrs. Yakeleya
Topics
Statements

Oral Question 156-20(1): Carbon Tax

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as I said in my Member's statement, right now the residents of Inuvik are paying up to $4.83 of additional costs on their gas bill due to the carbon tax.

My question for the Minister of Finance is what has this government done with regards to lobbying, imploring, begging -- I don't know, talking some sense into our federal counterparts -- to finally get an exemption on natural gas in the Northwest Territories? Thank you.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Member from Inuvik Boot Lake. Minister of Finance.

Well, Mr. Speaker -- Mr. Speaker, I'm often in a situation where I have to just say I agree and then want to sit down. So I've heard the Member's statement earlier. The carbon tax is a challenging one for the Northwest Territories. We're at the front lines of climate change. We desperately need to see change in terms of the approach to overreliance on fossil fuels. At the same time, this is a jurisdiction that doesn't actually contribute, certainly on the part of residents, very significantly to it. So I hear that concern. And I hear it particularly from parts of this territory who are on LNG, or propane, which are cleaner burning fuels.

I know I have raised this issue directly at -- not -- in fact, at the finance Minister's table. I had others from other jurisdictions also echo that call at the finance Minister's table. We've actually written letters to the extent of saying, look, is this the right way forward to best achieve the goals of reducing fossil fuel emissions. I know that other -- certainly the floor of this House, folks do listen because sometimes the calls then come in as to what we may have said on the floor. So we've had multiple conversations, last government and this government, and I have no doubt that the federal government hears us.

Why they are doing what they're doing in the way that they are doing it, Mr. Speaker, I think earlier the Member said it was that the federal government attempted to offer some relief. Mr. Speaker, they are still political entities, and I think they have done something political. It just didn't suit our needs or our desires, but I don't know, I can't say why. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. And thank you to the Minister. The Minister speaks about the letters that have been sent and the conversations that have been had and meetings that have been had with her federal counterparts.

Can the Minister speak to any responses, if any, that they've received from the federal government on this request. Thank you.

Well, Mr. Speaker -- Mr. Speaker, there's no exemption for anything other than home heating fuel right now after the fall round or spring -- fall round with the federal government. So I guess their response is that they've chosen not to do that. The ask also went from British Columbia. So we might even say, again, if it's a political matter, we have relatively small presence in terms of our representation in Ottawa. British Columbia has a very large presence in terms of their representation in Ottawa. They, too, did not get an exemption for LNG, which a number of their residents also rely on. So we're not alone, Mr. Speaker. Doesn't mean any of us are any less frustrated. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, as a territorial government, we do implement, I guess -- I'm not sure how much we control the cost of living offset, or the COLO, for the carbon tax.

Is the Minister willing to consider an offset increase in the COLO for those who burn natural gas to offset the additional increase in this $4.83 that they're burning -- spending for natural gas? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Well, Mr. Speaker, by maintaining our own system that complies with the federal rules, we do control how the COLO does get set. And what we have done in that regard, Mr. Speaker, although we adjusted it because there's a significant drop in revenue to the GNWT with respect to not having home heating fuel anymore, we did still maintain and do an analysis to ensure that the existing COLO amounts should still be enough to pay for the additional amount from the tax, so -- which is challenging at a time when diesel costs have gone up and fuel costs have gone up and transportation costs have gone up. The cost of fuel overall has gone up significantly. COLO only is meant to respond to the impacts of carbon tax. And on average, average household in the Northwest Territories for its impacts with carbon tax, is still seeing that come back from the COLO. We can always -- you know, there's certainly the opportunity to always run those numbers again, look back at it again, but that adjustment was made and that consideration was done when the COLO amounts were varied the last session. Thank you.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Minister of Finance. Final supplementary. Member from Inuvik Boot Lake.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when those adjustments for the COLO were made, I believe they were made in the last Assembly, and they were made prior to the 23 percent increase. I don't know if the Minister can speak to if they had been taken in consideration that diesel would be exempted and natural gas wouldn't be and whether or not that's something they're willing to look at going forward as maybe, as she said, take a look at those numbers again. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, when the COLO amounts were reduced, they were reduced by -- and the number did take into consideration the amount of carbon tax that was still being paid for propane and for heating fuel. It's not a perfect measure. I don't have data on exactly how many households use what type of fuel or what combination of types of fuel, because there are certainly some that are using a combination of fuel, so that does make it more challenging. I can't reach into each individual home and say this is the amount of carbon tax you pay.

We also, in the COLO, tried to take into consideration the indirect carbon tax that households are paying. So not only their home heating fuel, but what are the costs that have increased to businesses and to then spread that out so that those -- so those residents are also seeing an offset for that amount. And so what I'm here saying that that average resident will still see their impact on carbon tax considered in COLO. I can, again, certainly commit to providing the charting that I have. I'll start by giving that to committee, to my colleagues on the other side of the House, so that we could all look again at exactly how the number was calculated, why we're seeing that that average continues to be met. That's -- I mean, that's really one of the benefits, I think, of this system is that it gives us all an opportunity to look at those numbers together. So I'll certainly commit to getting those charts over to them. Thank you.

Speaker: MR. SPEAKER

Thank you, Minister of Finance.

Colleagues, we've spent 20 minutes on three set of questions. So maybe speed up our answers a little bit so we can get all our colleagues to get the chance to ask questions.

Oral questions. Member from Yellowknife Centre.