Debates of October 30, 2024 (day 35)

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Okay, this is a question for Minister of Finance. Can the Minister explain why the government decided to sublease the Old Stanton Building at an increased cost of $78.6 million? Thank you.

Thank you, Member from Monfwi. Minister of Infrastructure.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the opportunity that arose to sublease the building was later in the procurement process. This has been some of the challenge with the audit is that there were multiple stages to what occurred from back in 2013 when the project first originated up to the last stage of that project which is when that decision was made to sublease. At that point in time, there was this opportunity because the investment that was being made by one of the partners to decommission, renovate, you know, clean up that old building, that involved a significant amount of investment and their intent was that they would lease that out to recoupe the significant cost to do that. When they were ready to do that, Mr. Speaker, the Department of Health and Social Services was also looking at that time for an opportunity to put a long-term care facility somewhere. They did do an analysis on the cost per bed. I'll remind you, Mr. Speaker, that this was after COVID when costs of building and constructing new things had gone up. The cost per bed was quickly realized would be cheaper at the Legacy Building, then -- Liwego'ati Building than what it would be elsewhere and so a decision was made to pivot and to utilize that facility. Thank you.

Yes, thank you for that information. Mr. Speaker, can the Minister explain what non-medical services in the new hospital are projected to increase by $173 million over 30 years? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Yes, Mr. Speaker, it probably is a bit of both departments here. Mr. Speaker, I'd like to take that number back. That's a very specific number, and I'm -- while I'm familiar with the audit, I am not necessarily up to speed with what that number would be.

So in terms of the projected costs, we do have a fairly detailed analysis that's obviously been done when we got the audit in. We are looking at where costs are going over the course of time. There's some concern that we have seen with respect to the audit in terms of understanding the difference between the portion that is within the P3 project and the portion that may be connected to Liwego'ati Building and then on top of which there have certainly been changes in the health care sector with respect to the costs of delivering health care, particularly following after COVID-19, and the time when the projections were originally done, 2013, 2015, do not match up to the realities of what we were facing post-COVID and so there are some concerns in there. And that may well be the sum total of the explanation, but I want to make sure I fully get the number that the Member referenced. So, again, so aside from mentioning the concern there, Mr. Speaker, I will make sure that there's nothing missing in that number. Thank you.

Thank you. The auditor general estimates that the Stanton project will cost $1.21 billion over the next 30 years. Can the Minister explain how the territory will pay the increase in cost? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this too, I do just want to just provide quickly before -- you know, we pay the costs that we pay for services, and certainly within health care, these are essential services for residents of the Northwest Territories. But, Mr. Speaker, the auditor general was bringing together what for us is the P3 project which is the Stanton Hospital as well as the Liwego'ati Building which is where the long-term care facility and now primary care are housed. So this has been a conversation that I've had with the Auditor General's Office of Canada that does our audits over the course of many years. We do not see, as the Government of the Northwest Territories, the two projects as being one P3. That does seem to be how the math was -- come out here. Again, I'm -- you know, far be it for me to be the auditor on the floor, Mr. Speaker, but those two projects, from our view, are separate. They're both delivering health care services. We will, of course, prioritize to ensure that health care services continue to be delivered. There's a lot of work happening in that space to make sure that we're delivering the right services in the right way at the right cost. And as that evolves in both of those facilities, we'll continue to make sure residents are being served. Thank you.

Final supplementary. Member from Monfwi.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Can the Minister explain what effects taking on this debt will have on capital projects and spending in small communities? Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, all communities across the Northwest Territories need to continue to be invested in, and analysis gets done, whether it's department of health looking at long-term care facilities, whether it's education looking at educational needs, those processes continue. One of the things that does come to me from looking at the audit is the importance of having good planning, is the importance of having good records, and quite frankly, is the importance of having all of that consolidated in one place with experts in that area and that is something that we do now have a much better handle on. Five years ago, Mr. Speaker, there was about five different sets of objectives associated to the procurement processes in the Government of the Northwest Territories. That is pretty difficult to maintain a coherent system when you're operating under a regime like that. And so, Mr. Speaker, this is an opportunity to reenforce that having one set of objectives and principles, one place where all of that resides, is exactly the right way to deliver better planning so that every single community has access to capital in an appropriate way, in a planned way, and in a way that is transparent to all residents. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

Thank you, Minister. Oral questions. Member from Yellowknife Centre.