Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, there's been a lot of talk about this since it's been, in my humble opinion, rammed through. This policy change is quite frustrating. Many committees have already spoken against this and want it to be slowed down. Recently, one of the committees -- although I won't speak to it because it was an in-camera and confidential meeting, but I'll say it received a lot of feedback, and it was overwhelmingly concerned in the manner of the change and wanted the territorial's hiring policy stay as the affirmative action policy which we've seen for over 35 years.
Mr. Speaker, furthermore, the importance of it is no policy should go without review. I definitely believe in that. And there were changes, and I'd like to highlight one for the public's benefit to appreciate some of the changes that could have happened and should have happened and need part of the periodic details of what we're talking about.
So by way of example, Mr. Speaker, there is a -- within the current policy, which ends, according to the Minister and the government on April 1, if you were born in the Northwest Territories, you would be considered -- if you are non-Indigenous that is, and you would be considered a P2. And if you left the day after you were born here, you could come back any time of our lifetime and be treated as a P2. And for the public, that's priority number 2. But, again, most people will know what this means.
That said, Mr. Speaker, I think that misses the intent of what the policy was about. And it was about inspiring and finding ways to recognize the importance of northern people who have committed.
So first and foremost, no one I spoke to had any issues with Indigenous people from the Northwest Territories being treated as priority 1. As a matter of fact, the empowerment opportunity is absolutely critical to grow that. But there's elements that find the frustration where Northerners feel betrayed by this process. I have heard from people from the top of the North to the south of the North that there are ways we could have tweaked the current policy in a progressive way. I realize that there are certain overlapping Indigenous relationships that needed to be recognized. I too think that that's important.
What is problematic with the policy is I don't believe it's ever been used in the fullness of how it should have been used. That said, there are tweaks that could have been considered, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker, we need to understand the problems. The government will say well, we don't have enough Indigenous employment and it's not reaching the ratio of 50 percent of the North. That may be statistically true.
Now, what my experience has been around these types of problems is it always start with what do you want me to tell you on the statistics and we'll find a way to tell you the story through the numbers. In other words, we could have found any answer we really wanted to given the direction and the position. Also, Mr. Speaker, at the same time is we're not recognizing key fundamental foundational problems with the affirmative action program. It is a process of saving and -- saving and recognizing problems. So what am I saying?
Well, we have low education opportunities. We have high expectation of credentials. We have to find a gateway to create opportunities. We have communities where graduation rates are below 50 percent. That is the true critical problem of what's happening here. Creating a new IEP program, Mr. Speaker, isn't solving these problems, Mr. Speaker. It's just a fundamental shell game of trying to say, statistically, we need to raise these up. Mr. Speaker, when people want to work for the Northwest Territories and they are Indigenous, they are supported. And I support that. And I think that we have programs through -- and we certainly have exemptions through the Premier and Cabinet where we could do direct appointments. So if we need to improve the statistics, I'm certainly in favour of that. But opening -- kicking the door open wide and saying anyone from Canada, from whether it's Nova Scotia all the way to BC, is now hit a priority on this new policy is quite frustrating. As a matter of fact, again, it feels is the GNWT trying to save the national problem? Give it a local result? I'm not sure.
At the same time, Mr. Speaker, the government will tell you well, you know, it's always had legal issues. Well, I think there's always legal issues with a lot of policies. This one in particular, I'm not confident it's there. I'm not aware if it's ever been publicly challenged. In other words, tested in court, received any judicial guidance saying that.
Now, every Minister will say somebody in many the background says there's questions about it. Well, that may be true. There's question about our BIP. There's always questions about the BIP. And, you know what? Fundamentally, Northerners have grown to appreciate that and recognize they have limits, and sometimes it doesn't work out in their favour. That said, they do recognize how important some of these little nuggets of being a Northerner are represented and respected.
Mr. Speaker, the affirmative action program has been bought in for a generation or more -- if not We're getting close to two generations -- who have understood the importance of the value of that particular program. And to throw it out, again, feels likes a frustration.
Now, let's talk about other areas of aspects, Mr. Speaker, that are actually are foundational to this issue. So I've talked to mining companies, and they're frustrated too. They're hearing, wow, we have to hire more Indigenous people, which is fantastic. They go so if the GNWT gets to change its policy, how does it affect their socioeconomic agreements? You know, they're like, well, so if it's not good for the GNWT, is it good for us? Where is this fairness? Mr. Speaker, it's about fair application and reasonable application that respect Northerners' commitments.
The other aspect is, Mr. Speaker, not everyone wants to work for the Government of the Northwest Territories. I know there are a lot of people in various communities that don't want to work for the GNWT. And believe it or not -- I know this is hard to believe -- but the GNWT has long left the title or honour or pillar of opportunity as the employer of choice. It is no longer that. Yes, some people have enjoyed a great career here. Some have had great advancement. Some have, you know, had these dynamic experiences that all they do is talk about, you know, it's great going to work every day. I'm happy for them. But not everyone wants to work for the government. We have a federal government that's constantly competing for Indigenous people. We have Indigenous governments constantly competing for them. So it makes only perfect sense -- wait a minute, here's statistics again -- that Indigenous people are being hired in their community government organizations, which I think is incredible, but yet the GNWT is not getting those people applying there. So I think it's one of these narratives that you have to drill down and ask, what question are we really asking? Or do we already have the answer, and we're just trying to find the facts through the back door of statistics? I don't know.
Mr. Speaker, broader, now I'm going to speak, you have communities. And I've been to, like, every community of the North, except for Sachs. But I've been to every community of the North. And I can tell you jobs are tough in a small community. It's tough to find them. It's tough to find employment. And we don't do enough to inspire and create creative opportunities to get that. So if employment is the issue, why don't we have a jobs mandate, a war time mandate to say we're going to put employment and we're going to raise education standards and we're going to throw everything at these opportunities we can get. So back to where's the fundamental problem? We'll call these the cornerstones of this issue which is education and opportunities. And that's really what we're having here, is this -- and that's what was trying to identify new ways to advance.
Mr. Speaker, I have more to say, and like most people know, I could probably go on for quite a while, but this is a very serious topic and it's very frustrating. And I've had people from all ranges of support so don't think it's just the P2 candidates that are mad. It's also Indigenous people that I've spoken to who feel that their recognition and commitment Northerners have made has been lost. And it's unfortunate that the way that these conversations get talked about, they could be misconstrued in other ways. And it's very frustrating, and it's very difficult.
I have heard from many GNWT employees who are afraid to comment because they're GNWT employees. Their democratic right to communicate to their elected officials, either written and even in sometimes verbal, are very frustrating for them because they don't feel that their voices could be heard. And so we may have received an enormous overwhelming amount of feedback at committee at the call of committee. But I wish we could have this public so the government could have that. I wish government employees could feel safe to say, you know what, I'm upset or frustrated by this. But we can't in this environment. And I wouldn't want anything else be betrayed -- portrayed -- sorry, just to be clear, portrayed, that people just feel left out by this government.
Mr. Speaker, I will be requesting a recorded vote when we do come to that particular time. And I think what's key to me here is the fact that this government can reverse this, pause it. I've asked them to halt it through the motion. I thank the seconder who's supported the motion to get it on the floor. I encourage people to continue to open their mind and see the opportunity that's being walked away from and respect people who have committed their lives, their families to the North, who invest in the North, who want this to be part of their future and by not -- by walking away from them, it's that empty feeling that your government is walking away from you. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Member for Yellowknife Centre. The Member for Range Lake. The Member for Frame Lake. The Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh.
All those opposed, please stand.
The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. The Member for Monfwi. The Member for Great Slave. The Member for Mackenzie Delta. The Member for Thebacha. The Member for Yellowknife South. The Member for Kam Lake. The Member for Hay River North. The Member for Hay River South. The Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. The Member for Nunakput. The Member for Deh Cho. The Member for Sahtu.
All those abstaining, please stand.
The Member for Yellowknife North.
Those in favour, 4. Opposed, 13. One abstention. The motion is defeated.
---Defeated
Colleagues, we will take a brief recess to deal with the other motions. We have to give the translators a bit of a break. Thank you.
---SHORT RECESS
Mr. Speaker, I don't have anything more to add. I'll just ask for a recorded vote. Thank you.
The Member for Yellowknife North. The Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. The Member for Deh Cho. The Member for Sahtu. The Member for Yellowknife Centre. The Member for Range Lake. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. The Member for Monfwi. The Member for Frame Lake. The Member for Great Slave. The Member for Mackenzie Delta.
All those opposed, please stand. All those abstaining, please stand.
The Member for Thebacha. The Member for Yellowknife South. The Member for Kam Lake. The Member for Hay River North. The Member for Hay River South. The Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. The Member for Nunakput.
In favour, 11. Opposed, zero. Abstentions, 7. The motion as amended has passed.
---Carried
Motions. Member from Yellowknife North.
Mr. Speaker, I move, seconded by the honourable Member for Nunakput, that Bill 25, Appropriation Act (Operations Expenditures) 2025-2026, be read for the third time. Mr. Speaker, I would request a recorded vote. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
The Member for Yellowknife South. The Member for Kam Lake. The Member for Hay River North. The Member for Hay River South. The Member for Inuvik Twin Lakes. The Member for Nunakput. The Member for Deh Cho. The Member for Sahtu. The Member for Inuvik Boot Lake. The Member for Monfwi. The Member for Frame Lake. The Member for Great Slave. The Member for Mackenzie Delta. The Member for Yellowknife North. The Member for Thebacha.
All those opposed, please stand.
The Member for Tu Nedhe-Wiilideh. The Member for Yellowknife Centre. The Member for Range Lake.
All those abstaining, please stand. 15 in favour, 3 opposed, zero abstentions. The motion is carried. Bill 25 has had third reading.
---Carried
Third reading of bills. Mr. Clerk, can you please determine whether the Commissioner of the Northwest Territories, the Honourable Gerry Kisoun, is prepared to enter the chamber and ascend to the bills.
