Thank you, Madam Chair. We’ve seen huge progress in this area already, and I think creating awareness in the individual departments has helped an awful lot. I have had discussions with the Premier on this and we have discussed this with Cabinet; Cabinet is aware. The deputy minister has been discussing this at the deputy heads’ meetings on a regular basis. I think the deputies are taking responsibility and accountability for this issue, and I think we have already started to see some positive results.
As I indicated earlier when I was talking to Mr. Bromley, the Premier has indicated that this is part of the performance measurement system for senior managers in the Northwest Territories. I think the accountability is there. I think we have started to make significant progress and that can’t be forgotten.
I’m sorry, but I’m just not seeing it. The hoping that every department steps up to the plate still misses the coordinating role. It’s like an orchestra. We need a conductor to ensure everyone is playing the same tune. Sure, they all play wonderful instruments that are polished nice and they practice on their own, but the reality is, without that person tapping on the music and causing it to come together properly, it doesn’t have that element.
Here is a good example of the fact that no one is in charge of this particular thing. It’s all left up to the deputies by saying, don’t worry, you’re on your own, do the best you can. Clearly, we could have a department such as Human Resources here taking the opportunity. So what is stopping the Minister from approaching Cabinet to say, I will seize that opportunity to help coordinate this problem, develop safety programs and initiatives that could further lend strength to better rates, and better safety and compliance?
As I’ve said before, we’ve had this discussion in Cabinet and I have discussed this with the Premier. This is going to be part of the performance measurement system for senior managers and it’s discussed on a regular basis at the deputy head level. Each of the deputy ministers are accountable, and they are accepting that accountability and making the appropriate progress within the departments.
Is this not part of the performance management process of the deputy ministers, because that’s what I’m hearing now being repeated we’re going to make it part of? To date has it not been part of it?
When I talked to the Premier we confirmed that it is, yes.
So maybe if it’s part of the performance process and the Department of Human Resources doesn’t seem interested in creating a coordinated role, who does coordinate to ensure that the deputies do comply?
As I’ve indicated, we actually are responsible for writing a significant amount of the policy that the individual departments are responsible for administering. We provide technical advice and guidance on how to apply those policies and procedures, and we provide training that’s available to individuals that are on the occupational health and safety committees. At the end of the day, the application within each department is the responsibility of the deputy minister and I guess, by default, the Ministers.
So there’s no way of guaranteeing consistent application of policy. We’re all allowing the departments to run in on their own and to apply the policy as they feel satisfied.
We provide a framework and they do their risk assessment on the exposure as they move forward.
And the answer to my question?
Mr. Abernethy, would you care to rephrase?
I think that was the answer, Madam Chair.
Who is there to guide the performance and consistency of the policy? It sounds as if I keep getting the same answer that it’s up to the departments, up to the deputy ministers and in some ways up to the Minister, but all I hear is inconsistencies of application. What I’m asking for, and other Members are asking for, is consistent application and someone to take a leadership role.
So back to the issue at hand is, who is ensuring there is consistent policy being complied with, because it’s a carrot or stick approach. It’s great that you can write all these guidelines and come up with some advisory stuff, but at the end of the day, no one is ensuring that there’s consistent application. Is that not correct?
As I indicated, we are responsible for putting the policy together, then each department would have to take that policy. Every department is different and the risk for employees within each department is significantly different. Justice has a significantly different risk level than, say, the Department of Executive or Department of Finance. Every department has to take the policy, do the risk assessment, and put in the program that meets their level of risk to ensure that their employees are aware of safety protocol, that they’re aware of health and safety standards, and that they apply them accordingly within their own risk framework. The deputy heads are accountable.
Maybe the Minister of Human Resources could help educate the Legislature on the inconsistencies of filing paperwork and how that is so incredibly difficult that we need a new risk matrix to explain the elements of why it’s so inconsistent in some areas and why we couldn’t have a consistent pattern across the board and, by the same token, someone to ensure there is a level of compliance.
I have no idea what the Member is saying. Could you maybe rephrase it for me?
Well, the Minister keeps echoing about how different places are, but when we talk about filing of paperwork, for example, we’ve have incidents where people don’t file on time, so why are departments so difficult they can’t file their paperwork in a compliance form? Maybe he could explain in a risk matrix complex, sort of explain all the deviations that apply to these things and why they are so different and maybe we can get an education here today. Because, ultimately, what we’re asking for is compliance and consistency. Do they all have different types of risks? Absolutely. That’s as plain as day, or night as the case may be. The bottom line is filing paperwork. We have consistent finds showing they can’t do them regularly. Why is that so inconsistent and cannot be followed through with one leadership department, which I would think would be the flagship of Human Resources.
As far as paperwork is concerned, when an injury occurs, an employee is required to fill out a form that is provided by the WSCC. They fill out that form and then the employer is required to follow up a subsequent form which is also provided by the WSCC so that that particular file can then become a file of the WSCC. We’ve indicated earlier and talked a little bit about that from time to time, 61 cases over the last four years, they have been late filed, but I don’t see us having a significant problem getting these forms to the WSCC and moving forward accordingly.
Is this something you don’t want to do or can’t do?
Mr. Abernethy, maybe you could explain why we late file.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I’ve done that already twice today, but I’d be happy to do it again. Do you want me to read it again, Madam Chair?
Yes, please.
Thank you, Madam Chair. There are a number of reasons why there could possibly be a late file. There were and there have been time delays between when an incident occurred and when the employee reported the occurrence to their supervisor. We are trying to encourage employees to report incidents immediately, but sometimes it is late. It could be shift work. There were delays between when an incident occurred and when an employee sought medical attention. An individual may have had an incident and didn’t realize that they were necessarily injured and, at a later time, realized that the incident actually did result in an injury so they brought it to their supervisor’s attention, reported it and filed the paperwork accordingly. There were situations where employees and/or supervisors were not aware that there was a requirement to report all workplace incidents to the WSCC. I’ve already talked about this one. This is something that we want the occupational health and safety committees pushing, and informing and educating staff so that they know that all injuries require a report. There were situations where there were misunderstandings between the employee and the supervisor on the process to be used to submit the required form. That is another thing that the occupational health and safety committees are going to push to make sure the employees are informed accordingly.
Are you done, Mr. Abernethy? Mr. Abernethy is finished. Mr. Hawkins, your time is up. I have nobody further on my list. We are on page 3-25, Human Resources, activity summary, corporate human resources, operations expenditure summary, $9.163 million.
Mr. Hawkins, we have probably covered this pretty thoroughly. Please ask a new question if you are going to ask one. Mr. Hawkins.
I didn’t ask the question he answered, but I was grateful for the time he did spend providing information to the House again. My issue is about coordination. Is it something he can’t do, or doesn’t want to do?
Mr. Abernethy.
Madam Chair, we do do it. We provide that information on a regular basis to the departments so they can make informed decisions and apply the policies that they are responsible for applying on a regular basis. With respect to incident reporting, the GNWT has an incident reporting procedure that is used by all departments, boards and agencies. We are making sure that they are educated and informed so that they can utilize it appropriately. We provide advice and guidance, and we will continue to provide advice and guidance. The departments are responsible for the application of those policies and procedures, and we provide advice and guidance and we will continue to do so. We are seeing positive results.
Madam Chair, the Minister shouldn’t think I am not hearing him. I do. But what continues to be the pillar of the issue for me is the fact that there is no coordinating role. How do you know we are all on the same song sheet just because they provide advice and guidance, but he keeps farming out responsibility to individual departments? When we consider complying on all these types of things, again it is the consistency of applying. Why is it so complicated to say that all information that would be going towards WSCC needs to have a check box that goes through Human Resources that can coordinate it? At the same time, then we have direct reporting, probably better reporting and, of course, consistent reporting. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. I think that has been asked and answered, but I will go to the Minister if he wishes to reply.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The WSCC has a requirement for us to report incidents. We report those incidents directly to the WSCC. If the Member wants it to go through the Department of Human Resources, we are just creating another step in a process which would take more time, which would probably result in more late penalties. When an injury occurs, an employee is supposed to fill out the form. The employer then fills out the form and they are submitted to WSCC.
Thank you. Committee, we are on page 3-25, Human Resources, activity summary, corporate human resources, operations expenditure summary, $9.163 million.
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Page 3-26, Human Resources, activity summary, corporate human resources, grants and contributions, zero.
Agreed.
Page 3-27, Human Resources, information item, corporate human resources, active positions. Any questions?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Page 3-29, Human Resources, activity summary, employee services, operations expenditure summary, $14.293 million.
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Page 3-30, Human Resources, information item, employee services, active positions. Any questions?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Page 3-33, Human Resources, activity summary, regional operations, operations expenditure summary, $4.574 million.
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Page 3-34, Human Resources, information item, regional operations, active positions. Any questions?
Agreed.
We are agreed. Thank you, committee. Page 3-37, Human Resources, activity summary, labour relations, operations expenditure summary, $2.614 million.
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Page 3-38, Human Resources, information item, labour relations, active positions. Any questions?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Work performed on behalf of others has no amounts. We will return to the department summary on page 3-7. Human Resources, department summary, operations expenditure summary, $42.099 million. Are we agreed?
Agreed.
