Okay, committee, we’ll move on, then. Again, 12-31, Industry, Tourism and Investment, activity summary, economic diversification and business support, operations expenditure summary, $22.961 million. Committee agreed?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Page 12-32, Industry, Tourism and Investment, activity summary, economic diversification and business support, grants and contributions, grants, $625,000, contributions, and carried forward to page 12-33, sorry, and 12-34. Total contributions. Ms. Bisaro.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. I have some questions here related to the Business Development Investment Corporation and I’ve been wondering about the BDIC for a number of years, a while, I guess maybe not a number of years, but I did a little looking into the organization and the number of staff and so on, and I’m more than a little concerned. I’m quite concerned about the org chart, I guess, the staff that work this organization. There are 14 staff if the org chart is correct, but out of that 14 staff, I think one is empty, but there are scheduled seven managers. So 50 percent of the staffing of this particular corporation is managers or higher, directors. We’ve got a CEO, we have two directors and we have managers. So I’m quite concerned that we have more managers than workers, so to speak, and in looking at the org chart, we have several managers who manage one person. It seems to me that this is, perhaps, an organization which could probably use a little less staff, or certainly use fewer managers.
So I’d like to ask the Minister whether or not he considers this normal, that we would have an organization with 14 staff of which seven are managers or higher? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that we’ll go to Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That comes under the purview of the board and, certainly, I appreciate the Member bringing that to my attention. I have the opportunity to meet with the board quite often. Actually, I just met with them last week and I’d be more than happy to raise the concern the Member brings on the number of managers in the organization to the board, and I’ll get her a response from the board after I meet with them. Thank you.
Thanks to the Minister for that. I guess in looking at this page, there’s $3.754 million that this government gives to the BDIC, and if the Minister does not have any opportunity to have more input than just having a chat with the board, I’m a little concerned about that. I would think that if we are funding the organization, we should be able to have a bit more input and direction given to the board about what they do with the money that we’re giving them.
So in regard to the $3.7 million for ‘13-14 that is scheduled to be given to BDIC, I’d like to know how much of that is admin, how much of that goes to administering the office, and how much of that goes to loans and credit and so on. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. That plan is tabled in the House on an annual basis and I think it may be – the Member is asking a number of questions – very beneficial to get the board, the chairman in to meet with Regular Members. If Regular Members have concerns or questions about the operation, it would be a perfect opportunity to ask the board. They are an independent board. Certainly, they provide me with a corporate overview and I do meet with them to talk about their operations with subsidiaries. But, again, I think there could be a lot of utility in having the board come and meet with Members to address some of the concerns the Member’s raising.
I accept the Minister’s offer of a meeting. I think it’s probably something that should be discussed. We’ll have to see if committee agrees to that.
In looking at the corporate plan for BDIC for ’13-14, I don’t know exactly where the right piece of paper is but I think it was something like almost $2.2 million for administration for salaries and benefits for this organization. It seems to me that that’s a lot of money for 14 people, $2.2 million.
My other question has to do with a program that is run through BDIC and a program that’s run through ITI. I know that the organization and the department are quite closely connected, but I’d like to know in terms of the SEED program, which is run by ITI, and the programs which are run through BDIC. As I read on this page, the purpose of BDIC is to encourage the creation and development of northern business. How are these two programs different? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. For that we’ll go to Mr. Vician.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. The SEED program is disbursed across the Northwest Territories through our regional offices to support a wide range of business entrepreneurial initiatives. There are some focussed efforts in particular areas; for example, earlier we discussed the film industry. Those programs are well subscribed. The program budget is typically oversubscribed. It’s a little over $3.8 million annually and we have been able, through some readjustments in the department, to look at almost $4 million annually to provide contributions to entrepreneurs and businesses across the Northwest Territories.
The BDIC operates and focused program for contributions that are smaller, and deals with issues pertaining to much of their specific portfolio. So, for example, they’re dealing with some of the lending portfolio issues and they may direct some of that contribution money to assist with a particular client who’s dealing with them on a particular loan or typical application for a loan. So it’s a little more focused to their program area.
The department’s SEED program is much more open and widely disbursed to all types of entrepreneurial initiatives in the territory. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to Mr. Vician for the explanation. I appreciate the descriptions, but I have to say that I fail to understand why we could not administer both of these programs from one place, why we need to have staff in two places basically providing funds to businesses within the NWT, albeit the criteria are slightly different. I feel that there’s some economy that can be had here, and I would seriously encourage the department to look at reducing the staff between both ITI and BDIC, not by kicking people out of a job but through attrition, because there’s always an opportunity to reduce our staffing through attrition.
Mr. Dolynny mentioned – I guess maybe it was Mr. Vician – the Venture Investment Program. I did look at the corporate plan for ’13-14 and I did look at the website for BDIC. On the one hand, the website indicates that this investment program is not accepting any applications, but I think in the corporate plan it indicates that this program is going to be, I think, regenerated, so to speak. Does the Minister know anything about what actually is going on with that program? Is it active or inactive? Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I believe it’s subject to the program review currently, so it’s inactive. Thank you.
I do have another question about staffing. I’ll ask the question and the Minister can refer me to the board, I guess, if that’s what he needs to do.
I struggle with the Community Futures program and the BDIC program. They are different, I agree, but they are also somewhat similar. If you look on this page, Community Futures is about $1.3 million, BDIC is about $3.7 million. The staffing complements are similar. The number of organizations within each is similar. Yet in terms of jobs that are produced or jobs that are developed through lending and through the support of organizations, I think Community Futures is something like 130 jobs averaging over the last couple of years and BDIC is something like 47 jobs. So on the one hand we’re… There’s a difference of about $2.5 million, yet one organization is producing, in terms of jobs, a heck of a lot more than the other one.
Specifically to BDIC, if I look at their org chart I see that we have, in terms of subsidiaries, there are, I think, eight subsidiaries under BDIC, and these are companies which, presumably, we own. There are, as I look at the org chart, four staff, I think, managing these subsidiaries. I have a really hard time believing that we need that many staff to monitor businesses. Thank you.
Mr. Chairman, again, the Member raises a number of concerns and, again, it’s an independent board and I look forward to having them here to discuss issues with the Members.
We have to remember, in regard to the subsidiaries, they were set up, when they were set up to create employment in communities, provide economic opportunities and that’s what they’re set out to do. The subsidiaries are a big part of what the BDIC does. It provides economic activity in some of our smaller communities. So again, this is a discussion that the Member wants to have with the BDIC board and I think we should try to put that meeting together as soon as possible. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Ms. Bisaro, your time is up but I have no one else on the list, so if you want to continue, go ahead.
Thanks, Mr. Chair. Just one more question, I guess. Also, by way of explanation, I’m not suggesting that we should close down these subsidiaries. I recognize they are businesses which are operating and they are providing an economic source within many of our communities. But if they are a business which is in operation within a community, I struggle to understand why we need so many staff at BDIC to monitor, so to speak, these organizations. I think I will pursue, with the Minister, a meeting with BDIC and see which committee it needs to go to and when. That’s all. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. I believe that was more of a comment. Again, committee members, 12-32, 12-33 and 12-34, Industry, Tourism and Investment, activity summary, economic diversification and business support, grants and contributions, grants, $625,000; contributions, total contributions, $13.240 million; total grants and contributions, $13.865 million. Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. Page 12-35, Industry, Tourism and Investment, information item, economic diversification, business support, active positions. Any questions? None. Page 12-36, Industry, Tourism and Investment, information item, lease commitments – infrastructure. Any questions?
Agreed.
Seeing none, 12-37. Industry, Tourism and Investment, information item, Fur Marketing Service Revolving Fund. Any questions?
Agreed.
Seeing none, 12-38, Industry, Tourism and Investment, information item, work performed on behalf of others. Any questions?
Agreed.
Industry, Tourism and Investment, 12-39, information item, work performed on behalf of others. Any questions?
Agreed.
Thank you, committee. If I can get committee members to return to 12-7 for the department summary. Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment. Mr. Menicoche.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I move that this committee defer further consideration of the department summary for the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment main estimates 2013-2014 on page 12-7 at this time. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Menicoche. The motion is just being circulated right now. The motion is in order. To the motion.
Question.
---Carried
The motion is carried. Sorry. Committee, upon review, one Member was not in her seat. As a result of process, this is now a tie. The Chair will vote to the motion and, as usual, to continue the spirit and prolong discussion and debate, the Chair will vote in favour of the motion. The motion is carried.
Committee, this concludes our deliberations today with the Department of Industry, Tourism and Investment. I would like to thank Ms. Magrum and Mr. Vician for your time today. Sergeant-at-Arms, please escort our witnesses out of the Chamber.
Committee members, I would direct your attention to the NWT Housing Corporation. With that, I will be asking the Minister of the NWT Housing Corporation, Minister McLeod, do you have any opening comments?
I do, Mr. Chair. I am pleased to present the 2013-14 Main Estimates for the NWT Housing Corporation. The main estimates propose a budget of $112.782 million, a decrease of 0.4 percent from the 2012-13 Main Estimates. The budget includes a contribution of $67.492 million from the GNWT for 2013-14.
As Members are aware, one of the five priorities identified by the 17th Legislative Assembly was to address housing needs. Housing is a complex issue in many of our communities. There are significant differences in housing needs and challenges between our market and non-market communities, and there are needs along the entire housing continuum from homelessness to home ownership. Our approach to housing should strengthen self-reliance and support residents in meeting their own shelter needs, but also needs to recognize the importance of housing in supporting community sustainability, contributing to efforts to reduce poverty, and reflect the linkages between housing and education and health issues. These challenges need to be addressed in the context of declining federal funding for operating and maintaining social housing in the Northwest Territories.
The actions of the NWT Housing Corporation are being guided by Building for the Future, our strategic plan, and the priorities of the 17th Legislative Assembly.
Public housing continues to be the largest program offered by the NWTHC with approximately 2,400 units and planned expenditures of $45 million in 2013-14. A number of actions are being undertaken to improve public housing. The new rent scale was implemented on July 1, 2012, and made rent simpler, more predictable and fair.
This new rent scale also addressed the disincentive to work that has been a long-standing concern.
We have improved management of the Public Housing Program with the introduction of new information management systems, increased emphasis on support for the LHOs and continued investment to improve the quality of our public housing stock.
In 2013-14, over $14 million will be spent to improve the quality of our public housing stock. This will include eight public housing replacements, 171 major retrofits, and a variety of minor maintenance and improvement projects. These investments build on the $141 million we have invested in the public housing stock over the past six years.
The 2013-14 budget also contains a $540,000 forced-growth investment to offset the increased utility costs related to public housing. While some success has been achieved on the consumption side with the energy investments and investments in upgraded stock, these don’t completely offset the rising prices for utilities. An additional $700,000 has also been identified to continue the energy investments on public housing during 2013-14, with the focus on installing wood pellet boilers that will impact about 50 units.
The NWTHC has also taken significant steps to support home ownership in the Northwest Territories. The NWTHC will spend approximately $9.5 million in 2013-14 supporting home ownership and providing support to homeowners completing repairs to their houses. We have introduced SAFE, a new emergency repair program, and made changes to our CARE preventative maintenance program for low-income homeowners. In 2013-14, changes will be made to PATH, our subsidy to support the home purchases, which will make this program more effective in supporting home ownership in non-market communities and expand the potential pool of clients.
Late in 2012-13, steps were taken to provide home ownership clients that have a mortgage with the NWTHC revised mortgage balances and affordable repayment options. Letters were sent to clients in December and community visits are underway now to review the new loan agreements. The steps we have taken as part of this initiative provides these homeowners with a fresh start on their mortgages and provides clients stable, affordable monthly mortgage payments.
In addition to the public housing rental program, during 2013-14 the NWTHC will spend about $6.2 million supporting other rental housing. This spending includes administration and maintenance associated with 118 market rents, 265 households operating under our HELP and supported lease programs and 463 homes operated by third-party community-based organizations. It also includes funding for the Transitional Rent Supplement Program which provides support to reduce the affordability problems and core need among residents in market rentals.
In 2013-14 the Housing for Staff program will be reintroduced. This program provides a subsidy to developers to develop rental housing in small NWT communities where recruitment has been particularly challenging. Changes are being introduced to the program to increase its effectiveness. To further support housing for critical staff that deliver services in smaller communities, the NWTHC has also taken steps to standardize rental rates in our own market rental units and to ensure that all available affordable housing units are used whenever possible. We will work closely with departments and agencies to improve awareness of rental opportunities and the new rental rates. We will also look for opportunities to expand our stock of rental units in communities where there is the greatest need for housing for critical staff.
In relation to homelessness, the NWTHC administers the Homelessness Assistance Fund and the Small Community Homelessness Fund. The $325,000 for these two funds provides support and direct assistance to residents who are homeless or at risk of homelessness, and funds projects in smaller NWT communities that address issues related to homelessness in these communities.
On the revenue side, and as was noted previously, our efforts to address housing needs are further challenged by the declining federal funding for operating social housing. As Members know, the GNWT will see reduced annual funding of $2.1 million over the life of this Assembly as part of the ongoing declines that will see federal funding for operating social housing eliminated by 2037-38. For these main estimates, an investment of just over $1 million was made by the GNWT to offset the federal decline in 2013-14.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Do you have any witnesses you would like to bring into the Chamber today?
I do, Mr. Chair.
Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Thank you very much. If I could get the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Minister McLeod, do you have any witnesses you would like to bring into the Chamber today?
I do, Mr. Chair.
Does committee agree?
Agreed.
Can I get the Sergeant-at-Arms to escort the witnesses into the Chamber. Thank you.
Minister McLeod, would you like to introduce your guests to the Chamber, please?
Thank you, Mr. Chair. To my right I have Mr. David Stewart, president of Northwest Territories Housing Corporation. To my left I have Mr. Jeff Anderson, vice-president of financial and infrastructure services with the NWT Housing Corporation.
Thank you, Minister McLeod. Mr. Stewart, Mr. Anderson, welcome back to the House. We are going to move on to general comments. Again, protocol. We will just go through the general comments in sequence and will allow the Minister to have an opportunity for reply at the end here. General comments of NWT Housing Corporation. I am hearing detail. Thank you, committee.
Page 5-43, NWT Housing Corporation, information item, financial summary, information. Are there any questions?
Agreed.
Page 5-45, NWT Housing Corporation, information item, corporate summary, operations expenditure summary. Are there any questions? Ms. Bisaro.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a general question. It is referenced in the Minister’s opening remarks, the declining CMHC funding. The Minister and Members are well aware that this money is going down. Every year we’re having to put more and more of our own money into housing in order to maintain our stock, and continue to operate and maintain it.
I appreciate that the corporation has done a number of things in the last year to two years to try and bring costs down, to try and maintain as much stock as we have without it costing us too much more money. But I have yet to get from the Minister, from the corporation, a plan that will outline to me or make me feel comfortable that we know where we’re going as this money declines and should this money completely end in 2038.
I appreciate that the Minister is working very hard, along with other Ministers for Housing across the country, to try and get the federal government to reinstate some kind of a program, but I still think we need a contingency. We need a plan should, within the next year or so, we discover that no, the money is not going to be forthcoming. We cannot continue to every year add another million dollars to the Housing Corporation’s budget without seriously having some plan in place that people can look at and say, okay, fine, we are doing this this year and we’re doing that next year.
Where is the corporation at, relative to a concrete plan, long term, say a 10-year plan to deal with the declining CMHC funding? Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Bisaro. Minister McLeod.
