Thank you, Madam Chair. To the points raised by the Member, first of all, the responsibility of the contractors will be dictated by the Minister. The Minister is the regulator and the contractors will be providing technical expertise and services as determined by the Minister and his officials.
In terms of public input, it’s our intention to obviously use the National Energy Board as the transition vehicle, but by all means, it’s also our intent to ensure a transparent and open process of regulatory oversight and we intend to utilize similar vehicles. As the public is well aware, the National Energy Board uses, with consideration of applications for oil and gas exploration, authorizations and public notices, policy guidelines, filing requirements and so on. We anticipate Members’ participation, obviously subject to the appropriate passage of the upcoming legislation, the Oil and Gas Operations Act, in particular, that dictates the regulatory requirements that emerge as a result of devolution. But that will be provided through the legislative process, of course, and through the Minister and committees. There is a great deal to discuss, obviously, and as the Minister has indicated, we look forward to that discussion.
Thank you, Mr. Vician. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I accept your caution, and I offer any apologies that are needed. I know Mr. Vician is a man of integrity and proven record, and I feel like I can speak very frankly with him, and he is here speaking on behalf of the Minister, but if I stepped on any toes there, I apologize. I will try and come up with another word other than baloney.
Obviously, lots of things to discuss here. Another issue that I wanted to speak about was the geoscience office. Now, I know we’re proposing – I don’t think it’s obvious here, the way the budget is laid out, of course – another $650,000 on to this office. Now, I was down in the Great Hall here, a few metres behind the Minister not too long ago when they were announcing a big program, a $2 million-plus program joint between federal and territorial government. This office is a subsidy to the mineral industry. It’s a subsidy that is not uncommon across the country, but we are intending to approach things as if our 42,000 people can act like, you know, three million or whatever in Alberta, or whatever it is. I think we have to be pretty cautious here.
I’d like to ask the Minister how the heck we can afford this, after a recent lavish bump-up for this office and what exactly is that $650,000 for. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Vician.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The Northwest Territories geoscience to date has operated as a partnership between the territorial government and the federal government to provide the best in terms of science associated with the geology, mineral petroleum and other type resources of the North. It’s also an educational centre in terms of providing outreach to communities, to schools, to the industry overall, and to the public with regard to the science of the overall geology and geoscience attributes of this North.
The funding that’s reflected in the current proposed budget reflects a consolidation, so the federal portion of the geoscience office is being transferred as part of the Devolution Agreement. It will come to the territorial government. There has been no adjustment beyond that. That is the funds that are being transferred. It establishes all the personnel under the territorial responsibility and the funding continues with regard to their geoscience activities.
The overall benefit that’s enjoyed by the North is really just the best understanding of how our North is framed from a geological and geoscience perspective. It is a centre of excellence, is well respected, and as the Member has indicated, geological services exist across this country in providing that service.
There’s no doubt that the industry gains a great deal of benefit from the information, but all of that information is made public. There is no restricted information. It goes to all of those that have an interest in that information.
We continue to work with other federal agencies like CanNor to supplement, where possible, further funding, so it is an ongoing effort and we continue to believe that it’s an important part of our overall scientific basis for the North. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Vician. Activity summary, minerals and petroleum resources, operations expenditure summary, $19.349 million. Mr. Yakeleya.
Madam Chair, just for the record here, the Minister stated that we are starting to move some petroleum positions around the Northwest Territories. Based on participation and the business case and looking at future projects, I want to state for the record that I’ve been asking for some time to put some of the petroleum positions into the Sahtu because that’s where the action is happening right now.
It’s almost like saying, well, let’s put the forest management headquarters in the Sahtu because things are happening in other areas. The Sahtu people are starting to wonder, in addition to the positions that are being moved to deal with the impact of the oil and gas activity in this and this isn’t a small-time type of activity, indications could show that we could have quite an impact in Canada and in the Northwest Territories with what’s happening there now.
Up in the Beaufort Sea, we don’t know what’s happening there yet. That’s just on the horizon. We could potentially know, but we don’t know. Nothing has happened up there and activity is happening in the Sahtu right now as we speak. There’s potential of some things moving to another level that we don’t even think about right now, yet we don’t have the support in our region for this type of impact and that’s quite puzzling. I’m not too sure how the government comes up with their evaluation as to putting in the office.
I know we can certainly use these positions in our region. The Sahtu could be a major economic energy-driver in the North and in Canada. It seems like we’re dancing around the fire. It’s all happening in the Sahtu, but we’re dancing around. In case this happens, we have something here, but it’s like they’re scared to come into our region and offer something. We’re kind of scratching our heads on this side.
I want to go on the record saying that. It’s a long-standing issue for me. Certainly decisions have been made, but the matter of the fact is things are happening in the Sahtu as we speak today. That’s a given. This is not what could potentially happen next year or the year after. We don’t know. Things right now are happening in the Sahtu. Things are wrapping up.
The exploration activity is showing that there are some good things that could possibly happen, but we’re waiting on the outside and we’re having support on the outside. I am somewhat puzzled, as Mr. Bouchard is also, as to positions not meeting our needs. I hope we can do something.
It costs quite a bit to live further north in the Sahtu. We know that; it’s a given. What compels the government department to say yes, we’re going to move this? There must be some strong, compelling argument that has been discussed and say, well, the activity is there, but we’re going to move over here and this is why we’re justified. That’s what’s happening.
I could be wrong. Maybe in a couple years the Beaufort-Delta will really take off with what they have there. I hope that happens. But as a matter of fact, Jack, things are happening right now in the Sahtu and there are a lot of activities happening, but we’re not planning for that.
I appreciate the positions going into the Sahtu by this government to respond to activity that’s happening early in exploration. Don’t get me wrong there. That’s what I want to say for the record.
We have some positions already at the office in Hay River. That decision was made in the last government, but now we’re coming to this government here and I respect that. I don’t agree with it, but I respect it and that’s okay. But now we have an opportunity through this process here and we seem to fly over the region for something that we don’t know yet.
Minister, I guess I know the puzzle. I have to put it on the record that I certainly would want to see at least maybe three out of the nine coming to the Sahtu. We have to show. Right now you’re telling me, even though there’s all this activity in the Sahtu, you’re not important and we’re not going to give you our support, we’re waiting for something else to happen, we don’t know. That’s what it’s telling me and my people in my region. We will ramp it up in the Beaufort Sea. Possibly there are some good indications. Things are happening in my region. There is over $100 million spent in my region this year. That is an estimate. That is not the exact figure until I find out after the winter road closes and operations are ramped down. That’s happening right now. I’m just hoping that we see some support from this government to say yes, but I haven’t seen anything to date. I just want to say that I agree with Mr. Bouchard and some of the logic. We are not in the discussions when these opportunities come up. We were told, but we are not involved in the discussions. It is a different story from when you are being told this is what we are going to look at.
For the record, I don’t really need a comment from the Minister. If he wants to comment, then I would like him to comment on support they are going to have in the Inuvik area for these positions moving in there. I don’t know how many dollars that is going to cost us, but we certainly, for me, are dancing around the fire. The fire is in the Sahtu, but we are dancing around it, not really strongly supporting it, not like the physicians that I heard from last year, which I appreciate, but not something like this, having a regional office or even branching out from the Hay River office to support us. I guess I’m going to do another year and come back and see what type of response the government is going to give us for our region. That’s all I have to say.
Thank you, Mr. Yakeleya, for your comments. The Minister has 37 seconds to respond. Thank you.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I thank the Member for his comments and his concern. I do want to tell him and he knows I support the Sahtu, what is happening in the Sahtu, as does the government. We have made a commitment as a government to look at decentralization. This isn’t a regional office that we’re putting in Inuvik. There are nine new positions; it’s a headquarters function and they’re going to Inuvik.
We are moving forward with decentralization plans. There will be more coming, and I hope Members can understand and appreciate and have some patience with us as we continue to move forward and get into I believe it is phase three of our decentralization plan and just have some faith that some further positions will be moved to the regions around the territory. It’s something I have gone on record as saying I support. The department has supported it in the past. The government supports it. We are going to put our best effort into doing that. Again, I hope we have some understanding from the Members that this is just one step along the path that we are going to have to take. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Sometimes I just call the page so we don’t forget where we are. It doesn’t mean I don’t have other people on the list. Page 12-17, activity summary, mineral and petroleum resources, operations expenditure summary, $19.349 million. Mr. Hawkins.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I understand that potentially some Members may be having concerns with the grants and contributions and certainly the overall program with this particular page, so what I ask is rather than being sort of bent up in the sense of doing something we are not quite sure what we want to do at this particular time, is it possible that the Minister could commit to a discussion and certainly a briefing regarding things like the grants and contributions on this division. Maybe we could have an overall look at it before the end of this budget cycle and the commitment that we will have a chance for a fulsome discussion and highlight areas of concern and, at the same time, have an equal opportunity to have a chance to exercise and echo those concerns without it sort of steamrolling without us too far. Would the Minister be agreeable to that? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Hawkins. Minister Ramsay.
Yes, Madam Chair, absolutely. I made that commitment earlier to Member Bromley and that is something that we certainly look forward to, getting in a room with committee and Regular Members and addressing every one of the concerns that they have as we move forward. Thank you.
Madam Chair, that sounds good. I’m not asking for veto when I describe it this way, but committee feels very strongly, and I stress committee and not necessarily anything broader than that, but there would be a possibility to maybe open or exercise those concerns and maybe build upon those concerns, if necessary.
One of the challenges we have is, once we approve the budget, it is from a Regular Member perspective, it’s see you later at that point. Sometimes I think some things do take a fair bit of work to get to know, like, expect and work through. Again, I’m not stressing veto power. I’m suggesting a chance to work through some of these things. If there is concern, we work them out. Does the Minister see that possibility coming forward in this type of discussion, especially in this mineral and petroleum resources section that he’s already promised a briefing on? Thank you.
Yes, Madam Chair. We can do that and the sooner the better. Effective April 1st, the Government of the Northwest Territories will be the regulator of the oil and gas industry here in the Northwest Territories. We should get that briefing up and running for committee and Members. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I had one more question. The budget for this division is going up about $13 million. I would like to know what proportion of that is being covered by the devolution implementation dollars. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Mr. Ramsay.
Madam Chair, of that amount of $19.3 million, approximately $11.6 million will be covered off from devolution funding. Thank you.
Thanks to the Minister for that information. I appreciate Mr. Hawkins’ comments. I would like to follow up on that with a motion. If I may go ahead, I move that this committee defer consideration of minerals and petroleum resources activity on page 12-17 at this time. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. We will have the motion circulated.
The motion has now been circulated. The motion is in order. To the motion.
Question.
Question has been called. The motion is defeated.
---Defeated
Activity summary, minerals and petroleum resources, operations expenditure summary, $19.349 million.
Agreed.
Agreed. Thank you. Activity summary, minerals and petroleum resources, grants and contributions, $1.455 million. Agreed?
Agreed.
Thank you. Page 12-19, information item, minerals and petroleum resources, active positions. Any questions?
Agreed.
Agreed. Thank you. Page 12-21, activity summary, energy, operations expenditure summary, $2.988 million. Agreed? Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Madam Chair. I see again a substantial increase here. Could I just get a little summary of what that’s all about? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Ms. Magrum.
Thank you, Madam Chair. The energy division has increased by approximately $2.5 million in energy initiatives. That’s the reason for the increase. Thank you.
Thank you, Ms. Magrum. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you. I see an increase there of about $1.5 million. How is this related to, or perhaps I could ask, I see this is through the Ministerial Energy Coordinating Climate Change Committee of Cabinet. Could I get some clarification on what greenhouse gas emissions – I assume that’s what we’re talking about here – are being achieved through this work and how it relates to the Greenhouse Gas Strategy? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Madam Chair, Mr. Chair. I’m going to go to Deputy Minister Vician for a response to that question.
Thank you, Mr. Ramsay. Mr. Vician.
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for the question. The Member is correct. The initiatives that are identified under the energy appropriation on this page reflect direction from the Minister’s Energy Coordinating Committee but by no means are the full suite of all the MECC’s guidance, those are distributed among a number of different departments. I’ll speak to the particular projects that are reflected in this appropriation proposed, but let me say that all of these contribute overall to our climate change objectives and our reduction of greenhouse gas emissions for the territory.
Emphasis in the initiatives that are identified here and, as you may note, the compensation and benefits is essentially the same, but the grants and contributions have changed and the specific project energy initiatives that are identified as per the Minister’s opening remarks in the House and committee earlier yesterday, one speaks to first of all a study, work with regard to dealing with natural gas conversion in the thermal zone. That is particularly focused on the overall initiative to look at LNG as a possible alternative to diesel fuel consumption in our communities, whether that’s in a community like Inuvik, which is a major consumer of diesel fuel but has been converted to LNG, as well as other communities in the thermal zone. So we have $150,000 proposed there.
There is a proposed investment of $1.4 million to the Whati transmission initiative once we continue the work. With alternatives to the diesel generation in that particular community, we’re looking toward providing hydro generation as the supply of electricity in that community.
We continue to support NT Energy with a $50,000 contribution to water monitoring, all of that leading to the potential for hydroelectric generation across the territory wherever we have that type of supply.
The other major initiative, of course, is one that we’re very pleased on identifying through the MECC Committee, which is another $200,000 towards a Great Bear mini-hydro project, and the Member for the Sahtu is familiar with that initiative, but we continue to work hard to try to identify a hydroelectric source of electricity in that region.
So that’s the example of the projects in that suite of contributions. We continue to support NT Energy, which is the unregulated component of NT Hydro, with a $700,000 contribution for their core resources. But as I said at the beginning, many other projects reflected in other departments – Housing, Public Works, ENR and others – reflect continued effort towards greenhouse gas reduction in our territory consistent with our strategy and the Greenhouse Gas Strategy. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Vician. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. I guess this raises a few questions. I know in the long-term energy options for Inuvik, wind was actually identified as one of the best, possibly the best. What are our investments in that one? I believe it was the Storm Hills as a possibility and the Reindeer Hill as another possibility.
The Whati transmission line, I know the community is most interested in developing their own hydro locally, and perhaps that fits in with the long-term here, but we have had this amount allocated to this project study of the transmission line several times in the past and it’s come to not. I haven’t heard anything more reassuring lately. I’m just wondering: typically we don’t spend the money, I don’t know where it goes, but I’m just concerned that we keep doing this over and over again without learning any lessons there.
Then, finally, in relation to the NT Energy core funding of $700,000, again, when will we see an evaluation there? In terms of cost of living here, people are not seeing it, they’re not seeing the benefits. We’ve had no new hydro development for I don’t know how long, other than replacement of the Blue Fish dam. So maybe I can get the deputy minister or the Minister to provide some details there. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Ramsay.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Under energy initiatives under the Department of ENR there is some funding for wind projects and wind monitoring. As well, on the issue of the Whati transmission line, I will go to Deputy Minister Vician for an update on the Whati transmission line. Thank you.
Thank you, Minister Ramsay. Deputy Minister Vician.
Thank you, Mr. Chair. So as with Whati, the Member is correct; we have made investments in the Whati project over the years. Those investments exceed over $1 million, but those are valid investments with regard to studies needed to determine the geotechnical conditions in the area. Also, route analysis and environmental conditions. Those studies continue to proceed. We are very hopeful, as we’ve indicated to committee previously, to receive a final report from the current work that began in 2013 looking at probably our best alternate route alignment and design for transmission line that would take into consideration future generation from the local supply, but in essence displacing current diesel, integrating it into the grid as per long-term objectives of the Power System Plan, connecting as much of the grid as possible. So we continue to do that and we look forward, as I believe and as I know the Minister has committed to committee that we would provide that update when it’s complete. It’s very, very important information to share once it’s done.
With regard to NT Energy, we continue to work with NT Energy on its deliverables as it goes with the overall Power System Plan work that they’ve been doing for this past year, a very important strategy for the North, and I’m sure, through the Minister, we could provide additional information on the works that the team that is doing that in NT Energy is providing. Thank you.
Thank you, Deputy Minister. Mr. Bromley.
Thank you for the details there, to the deputy minister and the Minister. I guess the people of Whati are incredibly patient people. They’ve been working at this for a long, long time and I just hope we can get something on the ground there. I know the expense that they’ve got and sitting on an amazing power source has got to be extremely frustrating.
My last question is the $200,000 for the Great Bear project, I know we’ve tried a few different things there. Where are we at on that? Do we have a specific project in mind that we’re supporting here? Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Bromley. Minister Ramsay.
Deputy Minister Vician.
Thank you, Minister. Deputy Minister Vician.
